NAS Newbie needs recommendation

[R1200CL]

If you guys use Jottacloud, you will save money and time. 

 

https://www.jottacloud.com/en/

 

Unlimited storage under $100 a year. 

 

 

[rodrigaj]

4 hours ago, R1200CL said:

If you guys use Jottacloud, you will save money and time. 

 

https://www.jottacloud.com/en/

 

Unlimited storage under $100 a year. 

 

 

LOL...

according to this upload time calculator it would take 1 year 8 months 2 days 21 hours 9 minutes 18 seconds to upload my NAS.

(1Mbps actual upload speed measured, 6TB of data) 

 

 

 

[Uselessoldman]

I find/think it almost unbelievable you lost hard drives due to a power surge, not impossible but highly unlikely. That said EVEN if you have they are not completely lost only the pcb board would be damaged or destroyed not the internals. Get another drive same model and swap the boards and you will find there as good as new. I talk from experience as much as 30 years plus working in IT

 

As for a NAS, with current prices of drives I would recommend 3Tb drives and I guess since you hardly access the data (not running intensive apps) more storage of data then the cheapest the better. I see people who have wasted a fortune on hardware only to find a few years later its redundant and almost worthless. Drives get bigger and cheaper so store what you must dump the rest.

[Musicophile]

4 hours ago, Uselessoldman said:

I find/think it almost unbelievable you lost hard drives due to a power surge, not impossible but highly unlikely. That said EVEN if you have they are not completely lost only the pcb board would be damaged or destroyed not the internals. Get another drive same model and swap the boards and you will find there as good as new. I talk from experience as much as 30 years plus working in IT

 

As for a NAS, with current prices of drives I would recommend 3Tb drives and I guess since you hardly access the data (not running intensive apps) more storage of data then the cheapest the better. I see people who have wasted a fortune on hardware only to find a few years later its redundant and almost worthless. Drives get bigger and cheaper so store what you must dump the rest.

I haven’t thrown away the drives yet. You’re right the actual drives may still be functional. Given that I have pretty much all backed up and get insurance coverage on the damage I want to go to a proper solution from now on 

[Johnseye]

On 11/12/2018 at 10:36 PM, The Computer Audiophile said:

This sounds very laborious and prone to user error. Use a NAS. If you want backup, which you should, replicate to a duplicate NAS. Keep that off site if needed. 

 

I’ve set this up many times and it works great. Never have to touch anything and receive emails if a drive is going bad. 

 

Agreed, it's laborious.  I use a NAS for primary storage.  I've had my controller fail and Synology replaced it.  Not a big deal.  I also back up all the data on my NAS to USB drives periodically and store them in a safer place.  Because I am constantly adding music, photos and other documents the frequency of backups to a second USB drive would be a pita.  It's bad enough when I do it once or twice a year.  One major benefit of raid is to allow for recovery in the event of a drive failure.  It's risk reduction.  And yea, I've worked in a data center as well...

[beerandmusic]

Raid is optimal if properly managed.

 

For Website or business, it is a necessity (like said, high availability), but for most home users drives will usually fit the bill.

 

Personally, I had NAS Raid0, but didnt use it much...it never died, but if it did,  it wouldn't be a biggee as i keep multiple backups both on/off site.  For OS's i use acronis and store images so i can restore an OS within minutes with all pointers to data.  For backups i use a script that runs daily from internal drives to external SSD for important data, and again to an external drive for all data.  (the script just backs up changes, so usually not much), and it is scheduled.  I actually decided I am going to install a NAS again, but I won't raid the drives....i will update my script to include backups for them....really it's a personal decision which is best as long as it's just for home use...whatever way you are most comfortable in ensuring backups, data verification and data integrity.

 

[BilboAlaska]

On 11/13/2018 at 7:59 AM, davide256 said:

I have a NAS... it became superfluous when I started using Roon as direct attached storage to core server sounded better.

 

I am confused. I am looking at getting the Roon Nucleus and I am told that the Nucleus storage is not a NAS and that I need a NAS? this is my first attempt at storing music. the more I read, the more confused i am.

 

[Johnseye]

6 minutes ago, BilboAlaska said:

 

I am confused. I am looking at getting the Roon Nucleus and I am told that the Nucleus storage is not a NAS and that I need a NAS? this is my first attempt at storing music. the more I read, the more confused i am.

 

 

The person you quoted installed Roon on a pc then directly attached a storage device like a stand alone hard drive connected to the PC via USB. 

 

A NAS is network attached storage. It can allow for greater capacity than direct attached and can utilize redundancy through RAID. 

 

You can use a NAS or direct attached with the Nucleus. The Nucleus is pretty much just a NUC with Roon Core installed on it. 

 

[davide256]

2 minutes ago, BilboAlaska said:

 

I am confused. I am looking at getting the Roon Nucleus and I am told that the Nucleus storage is not a NAS and that I need a NAS? this is my first attempt at storing music. the more I read, the more confused i am.

 

NAS is useful if you don't have a PC for server because it takes very little CPU power for UPNP media server on NAS. Roon requires at least an i3 processor for any sort

of speed to support library enhancements and DSP... few NAS's out there with that kind of CPU power. WIth a Roon server  the media drives should be directly attached

to the server so that you can use Roon's RAAT streaming protocol to Roon enabled endpoint.

 

At this point I suspect far fewer are running Roon Nucleus because it has limited hardware support. Audiolinux  supports Roon core/endpoint and can be run on any PC

with suitable CPU power for Roon. Better yet, as long as your PC has UEFI BIOS supporting USB boot, you can boot Audiolinux externally off a USB stick then go back to

boot off the internal HD when you need to do normal PC tasks. And it does enhance your Roon sound quality.

[BilboAlaska]

2 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

The person you quoted installed Roon on a pc then directly attached a storage device like a stand alone hard drive connected to the PC via USB. 

 

A NAS is network attached storage. It can allow for greater capacity than direct attached and can utilize redundancy through RAID. 

 

You can use a NAS or direct attached with the Nucleus. The Nucleus is pretty much just a NUC with Roon Core installed on it. 

 

 

Thanks, I think I get it, attatched to your computer vs attatched to the web (NAS).

[BilboAlaska]

4 minutes ago, davide256 said:

NAS is useful if you don't have a PC for server because it takes very little CPU power for UPNP media server on NAS. Roon requires at least an i3 processor for any sort

of speed to support library enhancements and DSP... few NAS's out there with that kind of CPU power. WIth a Roon server  the media drives should be directly attached

to the server so that you can use Roon's RAAT streaming protocol to Roon enabled endpoint.

 

At this point I suspect far fewer are running Roon Nucleus because it has limited hardware support. Audiolinux  supports Roon core/endpoint and can be run on any PC

with suitable CPU power for Roon. Better yet, as long as your PC has UEFI BIOS supporting USB boot, you can boot Audiolinux externally off a USB stick then go back to

boot off the internal HD when you need to do normal PC tasks. And it does enhance your Roon sound quality.

 

Thanks. So far I am just streaming Tidal to my home hifi on an iPad hard wired through a dac and to the amp. I considered switching to an iMac so I don't have to constantly be charging the iPad. My home computer is too far from the music and is shared with other people so i need a stand alone system.

[BilboAlaska]

On 3/9/2019 at 12:11 PM, davide256 said:

NAS is useful if you don't have a PC for server because it takes very little CPU power for UPNP media server on NAS. Roon requires at least an i3 processor for any sort

of speed to support library enhancements and DSP... few NAS's out there with that kind of CPU power. WIth a Roon server  the media drives should be directly attached

to the server so that you can use Roon's RAAT streaming protocol to Roon enabled endpoint.

 

At this point I suspect far fewer are running Roon Nucleus because it has limited hardware support. Audiolinux  supports Roon core/endpoint and can be run on any PC

with suitable CPU power for Roon. Better yet, as long as your PC has UEFI BIOS supporting USB boot, you can boot Audiolinux externally off a USB stick then go back to

boot off the internal HD when you need to do normal PC tasks. And it does enhance your Roon sound quality.

Thanks but that looks way too complicated for me. I searched Audiolinux and found articles like this: http://www.modelpromo.nl/AudioLinux.htm

I just want to turn on the iPad and play music. I don't understand 1/4 th of this.

I got an Altier and spent a few days and failed to get it working with Tidal, and that is not even adding storage.

 

 

[davide256]

16 hours ago, BilboAlaska said:

Thanks but that looks way too complicated for me. I searched Audiolinux and found articles like this: http://www.modelpromo.nl/AudioLinux.htm

I just want to turn on the iPad and play music. I don't understand 1/4 th of this.

I got an Altier and spent a few days and failed to get it working with Tidal, and that is not even adding storage.

 

 

 

all of Gaul is divided into 3 parts 😉

 

in the world of streaming the physical devices are

1) server, where your media is stored and sourced from.

2) endpoint, where your media is streamed to for actual playback ( ie everyone in your house can use same server at same time with their own endpoint)

3) controller, the device that you use to browse server library and pick whats played to your endpoint of choice

 

to make this work, you need a media player application.

The simplest is freeware UPNP where a standard is used that allows you to use any UPNP server software

with any UPNP  compatible controller application. Better are dedicated applications like Roon where server and controller software are an integrated solution,

these are where you find support for Tidal and Qubuz integration, enhanced library information.

 

 

Consider this for server

https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/products/sonictransporter-i5?variant=20893269700

 

its an excellent media server, i5 CPU and you can later choose to run Audiolinux on it instead of the Sonictransporter OS. All you should need to do initially is copy music

to the drive(s) and then use media player of choice. Tidal, Qubuz are simple with Roon...just add your login information.

 

If you aren't into computer audio as a hobby, microRendu takes all the pain out of endpoint setup; plug it in, connect the dac, then through your browser connect to it and select

the media player you are using. Done.  Cheaper choisces (RPI, NUC, etc) are "some assembly required", you will have to know more, deal with more complex setup.

 

I found plain vanilla UPNP to be a problem with iPad (Apples walled garden?), ended up using OpenHome compatible server software and endpoints. Thankfully Roon made

life better. LMS, Openhome, Roon, HQPlayer, these should all be controllable from your iPad.

[R1200CL]

On 3/9/2019 at 10:15 PM, BilboAlaska said:

 

Thanks. So far I am just streaming Tidal to my home hifi on an iPad hard wired through a dac and to the amp. I considered switching to an iMac so I don't have to constantly be charging the iPad. My home computer is too far from the music and is shared with other people so i need a stand alone system.

M

You should purchase the Apple CCK. Then you can charge continues. Works with any iDevices. And no restrictions. Assuming you’re using USB interface to your DAC. 

 

Add a trail Roon to your computer and control Roon from another iDevice. Or whatever you prefer. 

 

If you like it, you could consider purchasing Roon lifetime $499.

 

If you’re after a NAS, purchase a used Qnap. Nothing else. And not to old. That NAS can held Roon as well. You can still use an iDevice with CCK as endpoint. Even a broken glass item. They normally sold very cheap. Excellent SQ 😀 

[BilboAlaska]

1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

M

You should purchase the Apple CCK. Then you can charge continues. Works with any iDevices. And no restrictions. Assuming you’re using USB interface to your DAC. 

 

Add a trail Roon to your computer and control Roon from another iDevice. Or whatever you prefer. 

 

If you like it, you could consider purchasing Roon lifetime $499.

 

If you’re after a NAS, purchase a used Qnap. Nothing else. And not to old. That NAS can held Roon as well. You can still use an iDevice with CCK as endpoint. Even a broken glass item. They normally sold very cheap. Excellent SQ 😀 

 

Thanks: 

Thanks. I just got my Auralic Altair to work playing Tidal with an iPad. It seems much more stable on my weak wifi than Bluesound which was constantly dropping out and driving me crazy for 2 years.. 

 

Now just Roon or other software and a NAS would be next. 

 

Sometimes in another room system I do plug the iPad directly into the dac and into the amp. This is not my favorite method because the iPad runs down too fast. I have an adaptor that allows you to connect the usb and charger at the same time but simply streaming from wifi is preferable to hard wiring the iPad to the hifi system. 

 

[BilboAlaska]

2 hours ago, davide256 said:

 

all of Gaul is divided into 3 parts 😉

 

in the world of streaming the physical devices are

1) server, where your media is stored and sourced from.

2) endpoint, where your media is streamed to for actual playback ( ie everyone in your house can use same server at same time with their own endpoint)

3) controller, the device that you use to browse server library and pick whats played to your endpoint of choice

 

to make this work, you need a media player application.

The simplest is freeware UPNP where a standard is used that allows you to use any UPNP server software

with any UPNP  compatible controller application. Better are dedicated applications like Roon where server and controller software are an integrated solution,

these are where you find support for Tidal and Qubuz integration, enhanced library information.

 

 

Consider this for server

https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/products/sonictransporter-i5?variant=20893269700

 

its an excellent media server, i5 CPU and you can later choose to run Audiolinux on it instead of the Sonictransporter OS. All you should need to do initially is copy music

to the drive(s) and then use media player of choice. Tidal, Qubuz are simple with Roon...just add your login information.

 

If you aren't into computer audio as a hobby, microRendu takes all the pain out of endpoint setup; plug it in, connect the dac, then through your browser connect to it and select

the media player you are using. Done.  Cheaper choisces (RPI, NUC, etc) are "some assembly required", you will have to know more, deal with more complex setup.

 

I found plain vanilla UPNP to be a problem with iPad (Apples walled garden?), ended up using OpenHome compatible server software and endpoints. Thankfully Roon made

life better. LMS, Openhome, Roon, HQPlayer, these should all be controllable from your iPad.

 

Thank you for the information. I will look into it. I had heard of the small green but didn't know how it was used. Cheers. 

[Allan F]

As many have said, RAID does not provide backup. Rather, it provides redundancy so you can continue to operate until you replace the failed drive. What a lot of people don't realize, however, is that if you accidentally delete a file or data, it will be deleted on both drives of a RAID setup - another reason to back up a NAS on external drives.

[Johnseye]

1 hour ago, Allan F said:

As many have said, RAID does not provide backup. Rather, it provides redundancy so you can continue to operate until you replace the failed drive. What a lot of people don't realize, however, is that if you accidentally delete a file or data, it will be deleted on both drives of a RAID setup - another reason to back up a NAS on external drives.

 

A nice benefit of some NAS's is a Recycle Bin so all deleted data goes there first.  Then a manual or scheduled sweep can occur.  One should always have at least two copies of their data on physical media and the NAS Recycle isn't a substitute.  You're on the money with what you said, I just thought I'd share the additional info.

[R1200CL]

15 hours ago, BilboAlaska said:

 

Thank you for the information. I will look into it. I had heard of the small green but didn't know how it was used. Cheers. 

 

You may find some inspiration here:

 

You don’t necessarily need a NAS. Depending on the size of your library you may be good with a SSD inside the SonicTransporter.

 

On the other side, if you purchase a powerful enough Qnap, you do not need a SonicTransporter, but of cause you can do both. If I had to choose, I go for the SonicTransporter. (I have both)

 

Your Altair also can have storage, but I don’t know if yours have, or how that storage integrate with Roon, or if it can at all.