Article: My Quest for a New DAC, Part 4 - iFi Pro iDSD (and friends)

[Superdad]

3 hours ago, gordec said:

Alex,

I'm interested in the JS-2. It should be able to power both Pro iDSD and Violetric V281 amp right? I'm new to the whole LPS thing. Also do I need 2 additional power cables to go from the JS2 to the DAC and amp?

 

Please send me a PM and I'd be happy to assist you.  I was not previously familiar with the Violetric V281, but from photos of it can see the it already has an AC>DC power supply built in (and wow the whole chassis of that interesting unit is packed!). So while you can utilize our JS-2 for a Pro iDSD, you can not make use of it for your Violetric head amp (though we do have a couple of people using a JS-2 to simultaneously power both a Pro iDSD and Pro iCAN).

[Blake]

Enjoyed the detailed reviews and the methodology, keep up the good work!  The only part that was confusing was the following part of your summary:

 

"Considered as a standalone DAC, with no upgrades, the Pro iDSD is a standout value at its price point. This would be true based on its impressive feature set alone, but once you add in its outstanding sonics, I’m hard pressed to think of a DAC that can match it at $2495."  

 

I interpreted your review as saying the Yggdrasil A2 beat the Pro iDSD/JS-2 combo in terms of sonics, which also necessarily means the Yggdrasil would beat the Pro iDSD without the upgraded JS-2 power supply.  Therefore, it seems the Yggdrasil would not only match it, but it would beat the stock Pro iDSD at that price from your perspective.  But perhaps you were intending to reference more than sound quality when you wrote that?  

 

In any event, I think reviews without comparisons to competing products are almost meaningless, so I do think your comparisons are very helpful.  The other thought I had is, in my experience, sound staging is a weak point of all headphones (although cans like my HD800 are pretty good in that aspect- for headphones), and sound staging is a point of differentiation when auditioning DAC's.  It would be a hassle, but you might want to consider trying all of the DAC's in your friend's speaker system, as well as with your headphones.

[feelingears]

These systems are so great. I'm excited for the next steps in this journey, because from now on you're going to sell tickets to limited seating auditions at Eric's house, right?!? Sign me up!!! And, I'll volunteer to plug in and unplug the power supplies as often as you require. And, serve drinks. ?

 

(Just kidding, @austinpop is not opening this or his friend's home. But, they should!)

[austinpop]

2 hours ago, Blake said:

Enjoyed the detailed reviews and the methodology, keep up the good work!  The only part that was confusing was the following part of your summary:

 

"Considered as a standalone DAC, with no upgrades, the Pro iDSD is a standout value at its price point. This would be true based on its impressive feature set alone, but once you add in its outstanding sonics, I’m hard pressed to think of a DAC that can match it at $2495."  

 

I interpreted your review as saying the Yggdrasil A2 beat the Pro iDSD/JS-2 combo in terms of sonics, which also necessarily means the Yggdrasil would beat the Pro iDSD without the upgraded JS-2 power supply.  Therefore, it seems the Yggdrasil would not only match it, but it would beat the stock Pro iDSD at that price from your perspective.  But perhaps you were intending to reference more than sound quality when you wrote that?  

 

In any event, I think reviews without comparisons to competing products are almost meaningless, so I do think your comparisons are very helpful.  The other thought I had is, in my experience, sound staging is a weak point of all headphones (although cans like my HD800 are pretty good in that aspect- for headphones), and sound staging is a point of differentiation when auditioning DAC's.  It would be a hassle, but you might want to consider trying all of the DAC's in your friend's speaker system, as well as with your headphones.

 

Yes, I was speaking in terms of both SQ and functionality. The Yggy A2  is a fantastic device if you don't need PCM over 24/192 or DSD. Or a preamp. Or a volume control. Or filters. Or DSD Remastering. Or selectable SS/tube output stage.

[rando]

21 hours ago, austinpop said:

My understanding with Chris is that I will write only on topics that excite me, that I plan to explore anyway, and only if it is fun for me to do.

 

To be fair I did say you only had one toe across the line between being a vocal consumer and generating product content with direct from manufacturer samples.  

 

Whether you realize it or not, documenting the amount of work you are putting into it is making your headphone system a reference.  You should visit the music forums more often to share the end result of these labors.

[gordec]

My experience with Pro iDSD is that it sound quite a bit better than Yggy A2 and Qutest. Yggy doesn't have the dynamics Pro iDSD presents. In terms of detail retrieval and sound stage, they are about the same. Also I can't stand the constant clicking with bitrate change. Again it's personal preference. I have heard arguments to support both DACs. 

[PeterG]

17 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Yes, I was speaking in terms of both SQ and functionality. The Yggy A2  is a fantastic device if you don't need PCM over 24/192 or DSD. Or a preamp. Or a volume control. Or filters. Or DSD Remastering. Or selectable SS/tube output stage.

 

Aren't we laying it on just a bit thick here?  DSD is a good point, at least for the folks who have already invested.  But does anyone have any 32/384 or expect to buy any?  Has anyone dropped $2K on a DAC and decided to skip the preamp?  Filters?  Selectable output stage? 

 

One important lesson my dealer imparted years ago while persuading me to switch from my Denon amp to an NAD--if two components have the same price and both are made by well respected providers---there's a really good chance the one with fewer features sounds better because they put all their cost budget into fewer parts.

[austinpop]

17 hours ago, feelingears said:

These systems are so great. I'm excited for the next steps in this journey, because from now on you're going to sell tickets to limited seating auditions at Eric's house, right?!? Sign me up!!! And, I'll volunteer to plug in and unplug the power supplies as often as you require. And, serve drinks. ?

 

(Just kidding, @austinpop is not opening this or his friend's home. But, they should!)

 

Haha! Anything's possible.

[austinpop]

23 minutes ago, PeterG said:

 

Aren't we laying it on just a bit thick here?  DSD is a good point, at least for the folks who have already invested.  But does anyone have any 32/384 or expect to buy any?  Has anyone dropped $2K on a DAC and decided to skip the preamp?  Filters?  Selectable output stage? 

 

One important lesson my dealer imparted years ago while persuading me to switch from my Denon amp to an NAD--if two components have the same price and both are made by well respected providers---there's a really good chance the one with fewer features sounds better because they put all their cost budget into fewer parts.

 

Fair enough.

 

If there's one thing I've tried to stress in my articles is that there are tradeoffs to consider between 2 excellent units, and it all comes down to what you value. Beyond that, I've certainly indicated my own preference, but that's a personal valuation, not a blanket statement.

[Ralf11]

add'l comments on "dynamics" of the 2 units?

[Blake]

5 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

If there's one thing I've tried to stress in my articles is that there are tradeoffs to consider between 2 excellent units, and it all comes down to what you value. Beyond that, I've certainly indicated my own preference, but that's a personal valuation, not a blanket statement.

 

For sure.  I would think everyone realizes these are just your subjective personal preferences and some, or even many may switch your rankings based on their preferences.

 

The added features on the Pro iDSD may be viewed in a very positive light by a user that likes to constantly change filters or Tube/SS output depending on the user's mood, or the music being played, and has music in multiple formats.  It seems the Pro iDSD is a great choice for that user.

 

I have two DAC's at the moment, one of which has multiple selectable filters and volume control.  Initially I played around a bit with the filters, but once I determined my favorite filter, I never adjusted it after that.  I also found I preferred the sonics using a separate preamp rather than the built-in VC on the DAC.  I tend to think I would not use a feature like selectable SS/Tube output- I would just use the one I like best and then forget about it.  It also seems that certain DAC's are optimized for DSD or PCM.  100% of my music is PCM.  So from a user like me, I'd rather have my dollars going only for better sound quality as opposed to paying for features I will not use.  That is why it is great to have so many DAC options these days.

[matthias]

On ‎10‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 1:27 AM, Blake said:

So from a user like me, I'd rather have my dollars going only for better sound quality as opposed to paying for features I will not use.  That is why it is great to have so many DAC options these days.

 

+1

I am sure without these gimmicks the iFi would cost the same as a Mytek Brooklyn.

 

Matt

[gordec]

I added Uptone JS2 to my chain after Austin's review. I can confirm that a great LPS really makes a difference. It's not like it's changing the sound signature, but you get cleaner sound, better dynamics. The improvements are small but clearly audible. 

 

JS2 is perfect as the dual output supplies both Paul Pang v2 and Pro iDSD.

[Veri]

Quote

Once the reference clock is attached to the BNC input, there is no indication at all on the display that an external clock has been detected. Ideally, that would have been a nice feature. As such, I just had to rely on my ears.

 

Was wondering about this, nice to see confirmation of how the clock works on this unit. I'm a little sad you can't really know it's doing anything besides going by performance.

[Geoff13]

Hello,

 

when can we expect part 5 and a conclusion? So looking forward to that!!!

 

Best regards

Geoff from Belgium

[Geoff13]

Hello,

 

when can we expect part 5 and a conclusion? So looking forward to that!!!

 

Best regards

Geoff from Belgium

[austinpop]

6 hours ago, Geoff13 said:

Hello,

 

when can we expect part 5 and a conclusion? So looking forward to that!!!

 

Best regards

Geoff from Belgium

 

Thanks for asking! I've been super busy, but I hope to publish another DAC review in a few weeks.

 

Will it be the conclusion? Stay tuned.

[Echolane]

On 1/6/2019 at 8:23 PM, austinpop said:

Thanks for asking! I've been super busy, but I hope to publish another DAC review in a few weeks.

 

Will it be the conclusion? Stay tuned.

 

As I’m in the hunt for a DAC, and the PS Audio DirectStream is on my list, I’m wondering if you have listened and/or reported on its SQ?

 

I’ve been quite attracted by PS Audio’s concept/use  of FPGA chips, making a DAC virtually ageless with free updates.  Also, though I am not a techie and this may be very naive of me, I can’t help but be attracted by  PS Audio’s marketing hype,  that going DSD greatly simplifies the internal audio chain and produces a “very analog” sound.

[4est]

6 hours ago, Echolane said:

 

As I’m in the hunt for a DAC, and the PS Audio DirectStream is on my list, I’m wondering if you have listened and/or reported on its SQ?

 

I’ve been quite attracted by PS Audio’s concept/use  of FPGA chips, making a DAC virtually ageless with free updates.  Also, though I am not a techie and this may be very naive of me, I can’t help but be attracted by  PS Audio’s marketing hype,  that going DSD greatly simplifies the internal audio chain and produces a “very analog” sound.

If that is your desire, then you might want to look more closely at HQPlayer and DACs that can accept high rate DSD directly. There is nothing more "ageless"(re-programmable) than a computer doing the lifting into a simple DSD DAC.

[kelvinwsy]

I agree.. Dsd 256/512 upsampled using HQPLAYER into Native mode of the iFi idsd micro BL is a gem!! direct to the sound output stage with simple filters gives very analogue SQ.. it beat my ClearAudio Magnum Avant garde  TT System 2 years ago 

With WinServer 2016Core mide/Audiophile Optimizer 2.20/Fidelizer 8.3 Pro has brought my music to a level of enjoyment AND convenience that i listen to 3-4 times longer of more diverse music than before

PS :: I was on the PS Audio PWD II /Bridge b4 and doing DLNA Streaming

PC Audio is so much more versatile snd SQ is superior

[austinpop]

8 hours ago, Echolane said:

 

As I’m in the hunt for a DAC, and the PS Audio DirectStream is on my list, I’m wondering if you have listened and/or reported on its SQ?

 

I’ve been quite attracted by PS Audio’s concept/use  of FPGA chips, making a DAC virtually ageless with free updates.  Also, though I am not a techie and this may be very naive of me, I can’t help but be attracted by  PS Audio’s marketing hype,  that going DSD greatly simplifies the internal audio chain and produces a “very analog” sound.

 

It’s on my list. Stay tuned.

[Echolane]

On 1/6/2019 at 8:23 PM, austinpop said:

Thanks for asking! I've been super busy, but I hope to publish another DAC review in a few weeks.

 

Will it be the conclusion? Stay tuned.

 

As I’m in the hunt for a DAC, and the PS Audio DirectStream is on my list, I’m wondering if you have listened and/or reported on its SQ?

 

I’ve been quite attracted by PS Audio’s concept/use  of FPGA chips, making a DAC virtually ageless with free updates.  Also, though I am not a techie and this may be very naive of me, I can’t help but be attracted by  PS Audio’s marketing hype,  that going DSD greatly simplifies the internal audio chain and produces a “very analog” sound.

[Haimsh]

Hi Austin. 
I bought the IFI PRO after comparison with several DACs including Qutest and I agree it is great sounding DAC. I follow your recommendation and already purchased Uptone JS-2. I will come next week. 
I will  purchase Mutec ref 10 too.....

 

I have a question about Sotm TX-Ultra. You connect it to the Mutec. However Sotm uses Sinus waves while Mutec produces square waves. Is it not an issue of performance ? Are the 2 devices compatible ?

[austinpop]

On 8/21/2020 at 7:14 AM, Haimsh said:

Hi Austin. 
I bought the IFI PRO after comparison with several DACs including Qutest and I agree it is great sounding DAC. I follow your recommendation and already purchased Uptone JS-2. I will come next week. 
I will  purchase Mutec ref 10 too.....

 

I have a question about Sotm TX-Ultra. You connect it to the Mutec. However Sotm uses Sinus waves while Mutec produces square waves. Is it not an issue of performance ? Are the 2 devices compatible ?

Sorry I missed this post and just saw it.

 

I’ve used both square wave (REF10) and sine wave (sCLK-OCX10) reference clocks with the tX-USBultra. Both work fine. Certainly the REF10 really makes the tX shine.

[Haimsh]

On 9/8/2020 at 8:46 AM, austinpop said:

Sorry I missed this post and just saw it.

 

I’ve used both square wave (REF10) and sine wave (sCLK-OCX10) reference clocks with the tX-USBultra. Both work fine. Certainly the REF10 really makes the tX shine.

Thanks for answer.

I just have received the REF-10.

I   connected it to my IFI PRO IDSD using  BNC-BNC Black Tellurium cable. I also connected it to my EtherRegen using MUTEC BNC-BNC cable.  The IFI PRO IDSD  is connected to port B of the EtherRegen.

When I use the DAC  via Ethernet  - Spotify Connect or  Mconnect or Muzo, I hear real significant improvement. 

However, when I use the DAC via USB  (that is connected to my windows 10 server, using Roon or Jriver), I do not hear any significant improvement and I get intermittent error message "Extern Sync Clock Error!".  Do you have any idea why that is? Should I buy and connect TX-USBULTRA  to fix it? 

I opened ticket to IFI Audio support, but they are clueless.

Really appreciate your answer here.