Jump to content
rickca

Increased Shipping Rates from China

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

21 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Specialty silicon chips (high performance voltage regulators, FPGAs, high-speed isolators, clocks, DACs, etc.) and better spec'd passives (such as Murata MLCCs, etc.) are not available any cheaper to manufacturers in China than to any US manufacturer.  And I've yet to read of any counterfeit Linear Tech LT3045 or Silicon Labs clock synthesizer.  So it is not as if they can clone and produce for significantly less--though of course they can choose to operate on extremely thin margins.

Yea -- they haven't spied enough to get the IP for the other firms.  One reason for the so called 'experts' at tech  is gathering information from the US (not all of the reasons, there is some research happening in China as an arm of the PLA.)  Refer to stealing of GaN technology and other things like that.  (GaN in the past is a vital military technology WRT radar.)

Why do the research in the US if the companies lose their IP to competitors (by theft)?

IP is another reason (perhaps more strategically) for convincing China to do the right thing than even the job-leakage.  Eventually, engineering will be destroyed in the US (it already has been iimpacted.)

China is sovereign -- they secretly don't have to follow the rules?  Who is going to put the PLA in jail?

 

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Richard Dale said:

Is it a problem? What does the term 'intellectual property' actually mean? Can you provide examples what 'serious problems' have been caused by China 'stealing' intellectual property'?

 

I ask these questions because in the software world, patents on software are regarded as a bad idea by most people who actually develop software. Software people value maximum collaboration between anyone who can contribute whether it be a 14 year old American school kid, Chinese phd expert ,  a smart dog or whoever. A company adds value by being able to leverage the common pool of 'intellectual property' faster than the other guys.

 

Using patents to establish artificial monopolies on 'intellectual property' doesn't make any sense in that context. To me as a software guy, patents don't make sense in general, and my feeling is this idea of 'defence of American intellectual property' thing is just protectionism.

Patents aren't bad -- misuse of patents IS bad.  I have seen some really stupid patents (I have to work around some Dueseys -- comes from the automobile manufacturer), but I REALLY DO believe in IP.

 

I am writing (and been successful) quite complex and difficult to replicate software -- I don't want anyone stealing it.  I have unique set of abilites (all of my faults notwithstanding) and don't want someone else to take advantage of my hard work.  I guess that makes me selfish.  Not all software is 'yet another compiler', or 'yet another accounting system.'

 

Sure a group of programmers who collectively write a well understood program like yet another OS (been there, done that), yet another compiler (well, I have written one for commercial purposes, but that was MANY years ago -- when compilers were simple).  THOSE subjects are well understood, and I respect the idea that those who write those programs don't worry much about IP - -THEY MOSTLY HAVEN"T INVENTED ANYTHING.  Keeping such softtware private is kind of silly from an IP (theory) standpoint, but from a work-product effort standpoint, there is something to be said for keeping that kind of  IP in commercial situations (think barrier to entry.)

 

Much NEW  IP IS expensive to achieve -- but stealing it is really simple.  Costs money to create innovative IP -- so where are the US profit centers to pay for creating/inventing/developing new IP?  Once things fall to a certain point, WE WONT EVEN BE DEVELOPING NEW IP.

 

So, I don't believe in 'free' software as a culture.  I think that it is GREAT to choose to free your own intellectual property (I have done that A LOT -- more than most free softare advocates), but to futher encumber binaries with 'free, but not really' seems a little dishonest to call or even think that it is free.  (I dont' know if you know, but back in the day, I rightfully thought the GPL cult as a religion -- and that is perfectly okay -- just don't call the workproduct 'FREE', because it isn't.)  Also, GPL is kind of good for collective efforts -- see, not arguing against GPL -- just the propaganda (and implied/inferred propaganda) associated with it...  If talking about really free software -- then I like it, and it is fair to call it 'free'.

 

BUT THE ABOVE IS NOT WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.  What China perpetrates are both theft and coersion to suck US IP dry.

 

Yet another compiler collaborative project, yet another OS collaborative project, yet another LR parser, yet another this or that, especially in a collaborative project -- okay, free the software -- BUT REALLY FREE IT.  What REALLY competent and experienced software developer hasn't written (or been intimately associated with) numerous kinds of programs whose theory is well known?  THAT kind of IP is cheap (in the sense of commonly available, but not the learning part), but the development costs and the limited number of developers is a major issue.

 

My successful project has been attempted off/on for 30yrs, with essentially zero success (dont' count that silly plugin -- Satin stuff) as any competition to my project.  I really don't want anyone stealing it or even know how I did it.  I am willing to sell the development service, if desired.  Also, when I publish a paper (which is already being talked about it), PLEASE let me present it -- not someone else who hacked my computer and stole my hard earned work product.

 

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The attitude of those who spy against us (the IP producers like NA,  EU, UK, JP, SK, OZ countries):  IP is free for the me (the thief), not free for you (the IP owner.)

 

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, opus101 said:

CNY has now dropped below 7 to the USD, it'll offset some of the tariffs.

I keep thinking about trying to compete with Chinese working conditions and horrible history with the environment.  A lot of people here aren't as old as I am -- I remember the cities in the US being almost dark with pollution, etc.  No matter what people say about US policy, it has done wonders, and recently even decreased its carbon footprint greater than most other countries (without extreme regulation.)

 

Dealing with a country that spurts carbon all over the place, creates dangerous pollution as bad (worse) than the US at its worst, makes workers work long days, mostly difficult conditions,  with poor vacation policy (worse even than the US vs. places like France -- who are maybe too generous), there needs to be some kind of equalizing factor.

 

The cool thing about the tarrifs is that the economics will readjust (like any kind of feedback system), but us mere peons might not understand the eventual effects -- I'll bet you that the whole package of policies will tend to benefit the US.  The US has gone from totally stupid economic policies (politicians only believing the US to be industructiable, and insanely disadvantageous policies won't hurt us) to maybe being a little too protective.  The various systems will correct themselves, but hopefully we won't over-compensate too much.

 

It isn't fair when the US has practiced relatively 'free' trade when certain other countries are very protectionist -- sometimes hiding under a 'developing' umbrella, while participating with the US destroying its own economic advantages.  Most previous US presidents (no matter the party) should be wearing 'I am with stupid' T-shirts (esp the more recent ones, after China's emergence.)  The IP issues are insane -- and probably one of the biggest reasons for China's hold out on agreement.  The draining of US IP has to be part of the plan for weakening the US  -- this eventually starts becoming a military issue.  (A small window on the problem -- not miiltary, but in the same arena -- using non-employees/contractors to write important parts of new 737's software -- I have seen the same quality problems in the auto industry...)   The idea of 'taking care' of your IP has fallen by the wayside -- we (I mean, all IP owning countries/companies) need to again understand the value of their IP and those who embody their knowledge -- the employees.

 

(Probably too far off topic, and I do NOT intend on disparaging anyone from any country -- just stating the self-damage perpetrated by the US over the years.)


John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, rickca said:

Following today's 75 point drop in the S&P, more great news.

 

Trump said 25% tariffs on $250 billion in Chinese products would rise to 30% starting Oct. 1.

Separately, the remaining $300 billion in imports will be tariffed at 15% instead of 10% on Sept. 1.

 

This guy has no clue what he is doing.

The problem with China isn't just the money, it is the coercion of intellectual property, spying, moles, involvement with the PLA and the general way that they do business.  This whole thing is not based upon the convenience for spoiled children to purchase $300 55" TV sets.

 

I'd suspect that China would privately cave on every issue other than their effective 'right' to all intellectual property in the world.  Geesh, the US tries to protect itself from Huewei(sp), like all businesses in China effectively being an arm of the PLA, then the US business people selling chips whine about it.

 

Too bad that holding back chips isn't that much of a threat to China any more -- they have already stolen or coerced the intellectual property.  It is becoming useless for the US to innovate anymore -- China will capitalize on it with their super cheap labor, almost no employee protection, and total destruction of the environment.  How can a responsible country compete with the PLA -- oh, I mean the Chinese business community -- given their horrible environmental track record?*

* PS -- please don't talk about the US and carbon issues -- the US is one of the few countries who is effectively doing something about their own carbon production.  Everyone else 'talks' about it.   Of course, China is REALLY GOOD and effective at producing carbon dioxide.

 

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...