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Increased Shipping Rates from China

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To be fair to Drumpfk, coastal China is no longer a developing country, so only things shipped from the interior of China would qualify...

 

I bet India, Sri Lanka, etc. will step up...

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t-Rump has no policy - he is simply trying to curry favor with his base voters.

 

 

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why can't we source semi's from India?  Thailand, Vietnam, Mexico, Brazil?  we can help them ramp up production or build new fabs (like TSM in Taiwan)

 

ultimately, the cost of manf. will be determined by who has the latest robots, not the cheapest labor

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22 minutes ago, Richard Dale said:

Is it a problem? What does the term 'intellectual property' actually mean? Can you provide examples what 'serious problems' have been caused by China 'stealing' intellectual property'?

 

I ask these questions because in the software world, patents on software are regarded as a bad idea by most people who actually develop software. Software people value maximum collaboration between anyone who can contribute whether it be a 14 year old American school kid, Chinese phd expert ,  a smart dog or whoever. A company adds value by being able to leverage the common pool of 'intellectual property' faster than the other guys.

 

Using patents to establish artificial monopolies on 'intellectual property' doesn't make any sense in that context. To me as a software guy, patents don't make sense in general, and my feeling is this idea of 'defence of American intellectual property' thing is just protectionism.

 

There are legal definitions of IP.  you might check to see if there is a Wiki, and can also use Black's legal Dictionary.  Beyond that, there are treaties, not to mention

 

Yes, there are a number of serious problems caused by China stealing intellectual property.  PBS just did a Frontline episode on it, besides the use of Chinese military assets to crack into US businesses and steal their IP and trade secrets.

 

Patents are distinct from copyrights, and other forms of legal IP protection.

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12 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

The countries you mention don't really have the expertise and skilled labor for high-tech manufacturing.  Otherwise you would already see phones and other silicon-dense products being made in those places.  

 

And if the US s going to invest in education and production facilities I'd much rather it be here!

 

Taiwan certainly does, as does SK.  The other countries I mentioned are developing this expertise.

 

I suggest that such US investment can be made in the rust-belt and on Indian Reservations if they want it.  High cost of living means it won't work well in trad. high tech areas.

 

I am not sure I want it limited ot the US however.  It is good to have allies (just ask the Athenians).  If there is really going to be an unfortunate coldish war with China, allies can be useful.

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28 minutes ago, Richard Dale said:

You haven't provided an actual link to a legal definition of 'intellectual property'. As far as I know it doesn't exist in a legal sense. What does 'PBS just did a frontline episode on it' mean in itself?

 

I provided ways for you to educate yourself about this issue, which is sorely needed.  If you are so lazy you need to have a link posted, then I cannot help you.

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intellectual property has legal definitions - you can look them up

 

no way to avoid the fact that China has stolen intellectual property and continues to do so

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Does the stealth DRM insertion by MQA constitute hacking?

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Japan solved the problem of low manf. stds. with JIS

 

China should do the same to remove the bad rap they are getting...

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On 5/10/2019 at 4:13 PM, Richard Dale said:

What effect has JIS had on the Japanese HiFi industry?

 

duh

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1 hour ago, cjf said:

Wow..please do yourself a favor and come out from under that rock and open your eyes!

 

Only an enemy of the state would fail to see the many problems that can arise from stolen time, money and trade secrets.

 

Perhaps you've never heard of Cisco and Huawei, or Huawei & T-Mobile or Apple or Oreo Cookies or......? Maybe you need a more serious example such as the one posted by someone else earlier in this thread dealing with fighter jets, missiles, nukes, battleships or "fill in the blank here".

 

You say your a software guy...I'm sure you wouldn't mind then if you spent years of your personal time creating a program or something in hopes of it being your bread/butter to feed your family to then all of a sudden find out that it was stolen off your computer and patented by the enemy before you even had a chance.

 

Yup..move on..nothing here to see..No problem 🤕

 

The real problem with Huawei goes far beyond "industrial espionage" to real espionage -- the Chinese Govt. gets or can get all data flowing thru any Huawei device.  And we are talking WAN here, not just phones.

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a few trade policy tidbits...

 

China needs resources from us (soybeans, etc.) and needs materials from Africa

 

other countries have produced shoddy goods for export - Japan in the 1950s and early '60s - tho you would not realize it today (partly due to JIS and similar efforts)

 

the US also produced shoddy goods for export -- in the mid to late 1800s - they/us/US produced el cheapo furniture for England 

 

Today, the US is a manf. giant (but not in consumer goods - if you need a gas turbine or aircraft, pharma - the US is where it's at)

 

Manf. in the US has not decline much or any - but manf. jobs have ---> it will get worse as robotics claims more & more of those jobs.

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and on military projects...

 

besides soybeans, rice & lumber (they can get the latter form Canada tho)

 

anyway - every economist will tell you to make stuff where it is cheapest and engage in trade - that will always work out best in the long run

 

OTOH, one of the greatest economists noted that "In the long run we shall all be dead."

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China is now making noises about rare earths...

 

people all over the world have the fear that the US will lose its international supremacy - if you have one country in charge of a planet, it is best to choose carefully -- and even the Germans don't want their fellows or govt. to be in charge; so who is left?  Japan?  maybe France? (if you have to be colonized by a Euro-power, they were likely the best bet; good food and they can run things ok)

 

OTOH, nobody wants a trumped up USA in charge

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of course, those who do study history are doomed to misinterpret it...

 

 

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On 5/21/2019 at 2:15 PM, DuckToller said:

Ralf,
Which is your perspective on how France is running things???
2 bottles of Huet and everything is looking ok from your veranda? 
I'd say, for an example,  Switzerland or Netherlands are running (most) things ok, their economic/social/political coordinates are much less problematically than the same facts for France. La France has as well a presidential system, where parliament and goverment have effectivly only a small impact on decision making, which in turn feeds the need of other forces (like SNCF/Gilets Jaunes/Students/Farmers) to make their interest being heard/manifested in their particular ways. There is no effective social balancing by the state in F..
How should that France find an equilibrium for the world ?

Cheers, Tom

 

Well... I left out the smaller countries in my original post.

 

Also, I was born in a former French colony and my Huet collection is too young & not yet ready.... but aside from those sources of bias, I see the le Pen phenomenon en France as similar ot right-wingery rising all over (most of) the world, and a lot of that is driven by immigration and terrorism/insatiability, which in turn is driven in part by climate change.  So... I expect it to get worse.

 

Macron is a technocrat and not a politician - he should have a front guy to sugar coat what is needed.

 

But my original colonisation post is really based on a joke by a comedian from India (I forget his name) who went thru the familiar litany of how the Brits effed everything up and then said "but we did get this kick ass railway system."   I then started thinking about colonization by:

Germans - efficient (too efficient) & the food sux

Brits - sense of lawfulness, decency, can run things, but the food sux

Italians - good food but totally dis-organized

Spain - brutal, food not spicy enough (sorry M. Feran!)

French - good food, not too dis-organized, so best (or least worst)

 

Portugal was also a big colonizer but I don't know them too well

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Alternatively, Putin's Puppet is doing anything he can to destroy America and the Western Alliance...

 

 

oh wait, OT

 

lemmee see...  the tax cut for the rich allows us to buy fancy AC power cables, and the trade war will bring manf. of them closer to, or in the US

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super cheap labor will be worthless once the super cheap robots arrive

 

I agree re the IP theft

 

However, China has done a lot to reduce GHGs (from what a pure coal fired power economy would be given the growth in demand there)

 

Finally, I have to point out the superior SQ of analog coal-fired power.  PV is digital and sux

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AQ there is horrendous - they are still building coal plants too - but my point above is they are working hard on greener technologies & deployment, and are trying hard to drag people out of abject poverty (hence more coal; but less coal than if they were greening things up) 

 

I expect that China will caremore about protecting IP when they have their own IP to protect

 

 

and BTW in the early/mid-1800s the US was the el cheapo manf. country for a huge flow of goods to Europe - cheap crummy junk - mostly furniture

 

we see the same thing in post WWII Japan - cheap junk, replaced by the JIS system, the pioneering efforts of Soichiro Honda and others in other industries

 

and.. there was also the rise of quality manf. in Taiwan and an ad campaign "It's very well made in Taiwan"

 

so I think a lot of this is endemic to economic asymmetries 

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the tariffs are costing a typical US family $800/year

 

OTOH, China steals IP like it's going out of style

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