Fas42’s Stereo ‘Magic’

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

5 hours ago, pkane2001 said:

 

The role reversal demonstrated by subjectivists in attacking Frank and his approach is hilarious, even if you don't see it 🤪

as is the irony of you totally missing the point, "even if you don't see it"

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

5 hours ago, fas42 said:

And further along the lines that when you pay more, you get more, I only recently noted, while surfing YouTube channels, that there is a marked backlash against upmarket European car brands - some notoriously unreliable, using cheap plastic, say, which deteriorates rapidly - the cost of keeping these cars running properly is huge ... in these days when the bottom line is everything, the manufacturer can easily justify, to himself, that saving costs won't hurt him - because people will still buy; based on brand prestige.

We get it Frank. The chip on your shoulder extends to cars too! Do you also spam the prestige car forums ?

[fas42]

David, you requested that I did not continue posting on your bad recordings thread. In turn, I request you do the same here, unless it is in context.

[sandyk]

Just now, fas42 said:

David, you requested that I did not continue posting on your bad recordings thread. In turn, I request you do the same here, unless it is in context.

 

 Frank, this is Blackmorec's thread and you can't request this.

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

2 minutes ago, fas42 said:

David, you requested that I did not continue posting on your bad recordings thread. In turn, I request you do the same here, unless it is in context.

Fas42’s Stereo ‘Magic’

By Blackmorec, October 12, 2018 in General Forum.

Just debunking the 'magic' Frank!

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

Just now, sandyk said:

 

 Frank, this is Blackmorec's thread and you can't request this.

 

Can we request Frank stops posting in this thread ? 🤣....it certainly would be over a lot faster !

[fas42]

20 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

Frank the nonsense in your posts needs no help from anyone to attract the negative criticism they deserve.

 

 

Hmmm ... looks a lot like

 

2.  An underlying tone of superiority. "Frank has his head up his ass and he is never going to get good sound unless he does things our way."

[sandyk]

1 minute ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

Can we request Frank stops posting in this thread ? 🤣....it certainly would be over a lot faster !

Why, it's not quite 2 years old yet  ? 

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

Just now, fas42 said:

 

 "Frank has his head up his ass and he is never going to get good sound unless he does things our way."

 

I think you nailed the first half 🙄

[fas42]

6 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

 Frank, this is Blackmorec's thread and you can't request this.

 

Well, I attempted to create a new thread, continuing the theme of this thread, 'owned' by me... but this was knocked back by Chris ... When the dog pack is in full cry, what is one to do?

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

1 minute ago, fas42 said:

 

Well, I attempted to create a new thread, continuing the theme of this thread, 'owned' by me... but this was knocked back by Chris ... When the dog pack is in full cry, what is one to do?

 

Stop spamming nonsense?

 

You moderating a thread about your magic powers would be like putting the fox in charge of the hen house !🤔

[fas42]

I know ... I'll start one called "Not the Fas42's Stereo 'Magic'" - that changes everything, of course ...

[fas42]

2 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

Stop spamming nonsense?

 

You moderating a thread about your magic powers would be like putting the fox in charge of the hen house !🤔

 

What amazes me is that at some point you were a doctor ...

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

1 minute ago, fas42 said:

I know ... I'll start one called "Not the Fas42's Stereo 'Magic'" - that changes everything, of course ...

 

it doesn't matter WHAT the thread is called you spam it with exactly the same stuff.🤷‍♂️

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

3 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

What amazes me is that at some point you were a doctor ...

 

Still am. Is that a personal attack Frank or have you got a thing about doctors too?

[sandyk]

7 minutes ago, fas42 said:

I know ... I'll start one called "Not the Fas42's Stereo 'Magic'" - that changes everything, of course ...

 

 I doubt that Chris will be too happy about this.

Realise too, that this thread is now almost 2 years old, and what has been said already is unlikely to change much in the future. 

Perhaps it's time this thread was closed ?

[Confused]

7 hours ago, fas42 said:

And further along the lines that when you pay more, you get more, I only recently noted, while surfing YouTube channels, that there is a marked backlash against upmarket European car brands - some notoriously unreliable, using cheap plastic, say, which deteriorates rapidly - the cost of keeping these cars running properly is huge ... in these days when the bottom line is everything, the manufacturer can easily justify, to himself, that saving costs won't hurt him - because people will still buy; based on brand prestige.

Completely off topic, but I cannot resist because I have much experience here.  I have owned both an ambitious BMW and a Holden Monaro.  Oh yes, I have drifted between an indicator ignoring road hog with a grandiose sense of self worth to an English Bogan!   

 

Back on topic, of the two, the BMW has the more magical stereo system.  Rather good in fact, and believe it or not, that BMW stereo does hint at a lot that has been said in this thread.  It is full range, gives a decent sense of the music and rarely annoys in any way.  It gets out of the way and lets you enjoy the music.  I genuinely really enjoy listening to music on that BMW system .  So maybe there is a plan here?  Buy a near end of life Beemer that has become utterly worthless due to the high cost of repair, and rip the stereo out.  This almost makes sense.  (but not quite)

[Confused]

By they way, and I have no idea if anyone cares what I think, but here goes anyway.  I have absolutely no problem with Frank posting whatever he wants in this thread, and indeed in his own Edifier's thread.  It it a free world, and amongst all the nonsense, I think Frank does have some interesting points to make.

 

In fact, I think these threads make an excellent conduit for this.  What I do have a problem with is the semi off topic reposting of these ideas spoiling the flow of other threads. 

 

So let's have Frank's ideas here, and the (reasonably respectful) thoughts of others, but in the same way, let's let others enjoy whatever it is they want to discuss in other threads.

 

Seems sensible to me, but then again I'm just a lane hogging indicator ignoring Bogan.

[Summit]

19 hours ago, pkane2001 said:

 

How are many of the claims often made here, on AS, different than what Frank is doing? How's a specialty DC wire or an audiophile fuse or an AC cord with special geometry any better? The process to arrive at their utility is exactly the same: make a change, listen, and decide for yourself if the change is beneficial. Frank is doing exactly this and simply reporting on his findings, just like every other audiophile here.

 

You don't think his findings are valid? They are just as valid in his mind, as that beeswax fuse or a shakti stone or a gas-filled AC cord or grounding box full of rocks are in the minds of those who hear the differences they cause. 

 

I know why I disagree with Frank's method and findings, but I certainly doubt that will be your reason. So, why do you, David, insist on attacking Frank and not all those others who are doing exactly the same thing? Seems like a double-standard. Inquiring minds want to know.

 

 

 

There is an obvious difference IMHO. Regardless of what you or I think about audiophile fuse, audio grade AC cord or grounding box full of rocks, we can get them if we want and try if they work or not. When it comes to Frank's magic tweaks, we cannot even find out what he actually does that miraculously makes his devices suddenly sound much better than 99% of all hifi systems. And when we have the discussions about how unimportant it is to set up the speakers properly and that there is no bad records, except audiophile records 🙃. So instead of debating “Frank’s magic” in multiple threads we try to keep the debate in this special thread/container.  

[Confused]

8 hours ago, fas42 said:

And right on cue,

 

 

 

 

An interesting link.  Plus I think this broadly echoes some of the sentiment in @ray-dude finely written post (#1369) 

 

Similar to @ray-dude, my own "audiophile journey" has taken some interesting twists and turns.  If I think of my current system, it is comfortably better than my previous system by pretty much every objective measure.  And don't get me wrong, I am very happy with my current system, it is giving me enormous pleasure.  There is a "but" though, in many ways that "old" system was easier to live with, I'd turn it on, listen to music, and never really think about the system itself.  This is harder to do with the current "ambitious rig".  Here is where my current position kind of aligns with both the article linked above, and indeed some of the stuff Frank has been posting.  From where I am now, I am not that interested in chasing more detail, or a more precise sound stage, it is more of a quest to preserve these things where they are now, it is more than good enough, and just make the system that little bit easier to live with.  I won't be scolding up my volume control knob or anything, that would be tricky anyway as my volume control is digital, but I do get at least some of the sentiment in this thread.

 

And Frank, maybe it is time to stop generalising about what "all audiophiles" are doing and thinking?  From I can see that is quite a broad spectrum of thinking and ideas these days, and long may this continue.

[Summit]

On 8/1/2020 at 9:37 AM, Confused said:

I understand this, although I have to say that my approach is different.  I have visited a lot of audio shows, and the thing that always interests me most is listening to different speakers.  For me, speakers make the largest contribution to to the sound of a system, or to put it another way, they are the most significant variable.  To put this another way, you could select one speaker and try it with a number of amplifiers.  Assuming the amplifiers are of suitable specification to adequately drive the speaker, then the differences tend to be relatively subtle.  Conversely, you could try a given amplifier with a range of speakers that it could adequately drive, and the differences will be significant.  In your case, you mentioned that you liked the Bryston / Dynaudio system.  I suspect that you could have "swapped out" the Byston for a number of decent alternatives, and you would still like the system.

 

As an example of this, I was once lucky enough to try the Blades with a range of Bryston and Chord products.  The Bryston 4B SST drove the Blades nicely, and probably stands as the best thing I have heard with the Blades at a particular price point.  Move to say a similarly priced Chord SPM 1200 II, on the same day with all other variables the same, there are some differences, but they are subtle.  Interestingly, during this demo I was able to try a Bryston DAC and a couple of Chord alternatives.  To my ears, I much preferred the Chord DAC's, even moving to models at a significantly lower price point than the Bryston.  This also indicated that my own preferences were influenced more by which DAC was in play than which amplifier, within similar price brackets at least. It is a lot of hassle organising demos like this, but I enjoy doing it and I learn a lot from it.  From this one demo, I learn the subtle differences between Bryston and Chord amplifiers and I learn that  I like whatever it is Chord do with their DACs.  I also learn the extent of differences moving from one amplifier to a similar product further up in the model range  I now know that I would be pretty happy changing my system to Bryston amplification with a Chord DAC.  I gained enough information to understand that I would probably be happy with a Chord DAC and a number of alternative amplifiers, albeit with slightly different end results.  A fascinating aspect of this demo was that the Bryston amps tended to have more prominent mid-bass, versus the Chord amps that seemed to have better bass definition and extension.  Later looking at the specifications of what I was listening to, it was clear that the Chord amp tended to have a lower output impedance versus the Bryston.  Maybe a correlation, maybe a coincidence, but all part of a learning curve and a journey of experience that I personally find fascinating.  Without going into all the details, I noticed a similar contrast between two other amplifiers on a later occasion, and here again the product with the lower output impedance happened to be the one that dug deepest into the low frequencies.  Again, this is not proof of correlation, but it is a case of building on ones own experience and the influence on ones own subjective perceptions. 

 

I know others will have a different approach and perhaps their own view regarding how I go about things, but that is fine.  I do things my way, I enjoy it enormously, and have archived my own slice of magic along the way.  That said, I am always interested in the views of others, and learning from others can be a lot less hassle than trying to do everything yourself.

 

I can be completely honest here and say that anyone who gets pleasure from their system and from the enjoyment of music itself, has my complete respect, irrespective of how they approach what is ultimately a fascinating and complex subject. 

 

Respect is important though, particularly when dealing with a subject that has such a large subjective aspect to it.  Subjective matters are personal, so where I see a problem is where individuals try to force there own personal subjective views on others, when they may well see (and hear) the world very differently.  I love the sharing of ideas, which is why I participate on this forum, but the imposition of ideas can be a little problematic, particularly when in the realm of the personal and subjective. 

 

Lose respect and the sharing stops, and I think we all sacrifice something.

 

There is a significant difference between the electrical and mechanical interaction between an amplifier and a speaker, which differs in terms of influence to other parts of a hifi system. If you're interested in my explanation of this, I can try to explain this in more detail, but only if you are.

[Confused]

22 minutes ago, Summit said:

 

There is a significant difference between the electrical and mechanical interaction between an amplifier and a speaker, which differs in terms of influence to other parts of a hifi system. If you're interested in my explanation of this, I can try to explain this in more detail, but only if you are.

Yes, I am most definitely interested.  My earlier posts may have come across a little bit as saying "all amplifiers sound the same", but what I was saying is that I have found differently amplifiers with the same speakers sound a little different.  I would certainly like more insight into exactly to why this is.  Plus, there was one time that I tried a Devialet 170 with the Blades, and it was absolutely appalling, whereas the seeming very similar Devialet 240 was excellent.  (both superseded products now)  This one has baffled me to this day.  If nothing else, this experience was a stark example of why getting the right amplifier for a given pair of speakers is hugely important. 

 

Maybe something for a different thread though?

[pkane2001]

1 hour ago, Summit said:

 

There is an obvious difference IMHO. Regardless of what you or I think about audiophile fuse, audio grade AC cord or grounding box full of rocks, we can get them if we want and try if they work or not. When it comes to Frank's magic tweaks, we cannot even find out what he actually does that miraculously makes his devices suddenly sound much better than 99% of all hifi systems. And when we have the discussions about how unimportant it is to set up the speakers properly and that there is no bad records, except audiophile records 🙃. So instead of debating “Frank’s magic” in multiple threads we try to keep the debate in this special thread/container.  

And yet, magical thinking pervades this site, well outside this thread, especially now that Chris banished all objective thinking folks.
 

I get the frustration with Frank, I’ve gone a few rounds with him myself  Whatever you think of him or his posts or his methods, he doesn’t deserve to be singled out and personally attacked in a way exhibited here lately.
 

Interesting things can happen when you engage Frank in a civil conversation unrelated to his ‘magic’: he has a depth of knowledge and understanding of audio that may really surprise you. 

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

8 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

And yet, magical thinking pervades this site, well outside this thread, especially now that Chris banished all objective thinking folks.

 

..and yet you are still here, are you not an "objective thinking folk" ?

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

12 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

Whatever you think of him or his posts or his methods, he doesn’t deserve to be singled out and personally attacked

 

You have that backwards.