Fas42’s Stereo ‘Magic’

[botrytis]

14 hours ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

you want ice cream to taste like beef? This is what happens when you get your measurements mixed up🤣

 

Guinness ice cream is awesome, BTW.......

[botrytis]

7 minutes ago, Confused said:

I see this a little differently.  For me Archimego's article looks reasonable.  Maybe I am able to step away from worrying about the subjective versus objective debate, for me it is pointless and I suspect the vast majority of audiophiles are "somewhere in the middle" anyway.  I think most are happy with subjective views, and maybe interested in measurements to some extent.  Those at the extremes are rare an can be ignored, they are usually just having fun taunting those at the other extreme anyway.

 

We then have the concept that something that does not "measure perfectly" may in fact have "distortions" that are euphonic.  In such a case something will not have objectively perfect measurements but may sound great.  For me this is a relatively easy concept to understand, and as others have mentioned, perfectly explains why many like the sound of SET valve amps, vinyl, Harbeth speakers, and similar.

 

Imagine two reasonably normal folk meeting at an audio show (?Oxymoron?), one says, this sounds great does it not?  The other says, yes it does, although I understand it measures badly, The other says, "it just goes to show that something can measure badly and still sound great".  They then wonder off together, hand in hand in audiophile bliss.

 

Of course, if one of them posts about their experience in the wrong section of an audiophile forum, someone might chime in saying "you are an idiot liking the sound of that overpriced bad measuring thing, either that or you are so stupid that just like the sound of distortion".  But that's just the internet for you.

 

I built a pair of those amps. Were they the end all and be all? No, but they were 288 USD or so. These were designed to help people build amp and learn how to do it. I think they succeeded well. 

[botrytis]

15 hours ago, fas42 said:

Here's a post that nails it,

 

 

Those MBL speakers when driven properly are a good shortcut to competent sound. As are the RAAL headphones. They both can do that same thing, and demonstrate the goal, nicely. The big trick is to downsize the cost of getting there - which is my interest.

 

How many people can afford MBL speakers (I mean the cheapest ones are 18K USD a pair) when you are talking working with a system that is the price of a Refrigerator?  You are trying to CYA without actually making sense, no disrespect intended, just a blunt observation.

 

Please stay on topic and EXPLAIN yourself, I have been following this thread and you bob and weave more than LeBron James does going to make a basket. 

 

 

[botrytis]

2 hours ago, kumakuma said:

 

Have you actually heard either?

 

I agree. Also, Ohm F's and German Physics would be similar.

[botrytis]

27 minutes ago, Allan F said:

 

Who has heard a refrigerator that sounds good? Mine is either silent or annoying when the compressor comes on. Even lo-res MP3 sounds better.

I think you are missing the point. MBL cost the same as a nice used car, not a refrigerator (that may be Wharfedale Linton Heritage, LS50's, etc). Way different price range

[botrytis]

16 hours ago, fas42 said:

Without comment,

 

 

Thoughts?

 

 

I think you can get there without spending more money than I make in two years. I won't deny people who can, it is their money after all.

 

You can't have it both ways Frank and you are definitely trying to.

 

I think you can get a decent sound system w/o spending a ton of money.

[botrytis]

2 minutes ago, Confused said:

This YouTube clip sounds a little better to me than the previous two "systems clips" that were posted in this thread.  Although I find it hard to judge how much of this is down to the recording or the actual system.  I suspect the equipment and method of recording is actually better for this example.

 

I'd love to hear the system for real, but this would just be out of curiosity, I would not be interested in buying £100k speakers.

 

I would also like to hear the system with different music than included in the clip, but that is just another curiosity.

 

It also occurs to me that I would very much like to hear a Gryphon Diablo, but it is the one thing I have never come across at a show or a dealer.

 

Well, I know of a dealer in Omaha, NB for Gryphon and was lucky to hear one during a demo, when I walked in and asked if I could listen a bit. Very nice but class A means it is a good heater for winter.

[botrytis]

@Audiophile Neuroscience Man, I would love to hear your system! Very amazing and impressive.

 

Mine is small beans, in comparison, but it does for me quite well. What I am currently using is bolded in my signature.

 

Nothing fancy, but all that matters is the smile on my face.

[botrytis]

6 hours ago, fas42 said:

You know, if I said my rig cost $200,000, say, no-one would blink an eyelid - the really, really disturbing thing, for them, is that I mention numbers say under $1,000 ...people are obsessed with the need for stuff that can do "special things" costing big bucks ... otherwise the universe might end tomorrow, because all the 'natural' laws are being broken ... 🙂.

 

No Frank, that is not how it works. The really disturbing thing is people HAVE put their cards on the table and you are still holding yours. I mean, mine is in my signature and I have put mine up, which isn't fancy at all.In fact, except for the speakers (some speakers not all), most of my equipment I bought used. I am not embarrassed and neither should you. Let's see it.

 

 

 

[botrytis]

5 hours ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

Hi Anthony,

wow, that's some pretty impressive weight in those amplifiers! My Mephisto weighs in at a puny 108 kg!! It is the stereo version. I could have gone for mono blocks (doubling the weight ha ha) but it still wouldn't come close to yours. I previously owned the reference one Gryphon mono blocks. I didn't need mono blocks this time especially since I upgraded to the Vivid speakers.

 

I am now in the Hunter Valley and if I recall correctly you are up Toowoomba way. We must catch up one day after the big V is gone.

 

 

LOL my Pioneer M-22 weighs  a puny 55 lbs and it is only an anemic 30 WPC (actually, when it was recently rebuilt by a friend, it measured 38 WPC) 

[botrytis]

2 hours ago, fas42 said:

The speakers are by Edifier, and they are the most impressive bit of kit I've come across, as value for money units. This is the first time I've had to do something to tame the bass, which was just too intense on some tracks; I haven't pushed them to the limits of what volumes they can pump out, as yet, but they can go to as loud as one would want in a room, with no signs of stress, etc.

 

It maybe be that your speakers have the classic bass hump to make them sound like they have more bass than they actually have (what Bose does and others). They are ported, I bet, and that is the issue, in expensive design can have some limitations.

[botrytis]

23 minutes ago, Jeff_N said:

Last time I looked in here was thirty or forty pages ago. I can't believe this farce is still ongoing. Did he ever post one single photograph?

 

I'm surprised you guys haven't figured out: he has no stereo; there is no friend with a "sorted" "rig" "up the road."

 

He just wants attention. He wants you to believe that he's outwitted all those hifi manufacturers and you nouveau riches who've bought your outrageously expensive shiny toys. His non-existent ten dollar transistor radio beats them all, because he's clever enough to pay attention to all the little things until his Panasonic radio suddenly clicks, the clouds part, the "rig" disappears, and the voices of a thousand angels spring to life in his basement.

 

It's funny to engage with him for five minutes, but I don't know why you would want to waste any more time than that.

 

As I said forty pages ago, we should program a bot that posts stuff like "Woe is me! I have more money than sense, and I spent a hundred thousand dollars on my 'rig,' but it still sounds like poo! If only there were someone to help me." Then when this guy gets all lathered up talking about his "system," the bot keeps replying "Really? But how? Tell me more, PLEASE!" It will keep him occupied for years.

 

 

 

Well, this thread is like the local bar. Come in, set a spell, and chat

[botrytis]

2 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

Rather than banning Frank entirely as other audio forums have done, Chris's approach appears to be trying to confine him to a limited number of threads.

 

In other words, a combination of social distancing and possible herd immunity rather than a vaccine. 👺

 

We all have a crazy uncle and maybe Frank is just the crazy uncle for this forum....

[botrytis]

10 minutes ago, Confused said:

Out of interest, how much audible difference to the sound would you expect this to make?

 

You mean measurable or subjective difference? I do not think routing the cables will make a measurable difference. Subjective, yes, as your brain fills in what you expect to hear.

[botrytis]

21 minutes ago, Confused said:

I stated audible.  So if it could genuinely be heard, rather that imagined, then I would expect that it would also be possible to measure. 

 

Not always. I will give an example from my research background. I was working with a protein that is blue due to it containing copper. The instruments I was using to measure it's purity were not as sensitive as the human eye for the colour blue. In fact at 610 nm - I was seeing differences in colour when the instrument was barely measuring any absorbance. I knew there was a difference, the enzyme activity assay said there was a difference, the 610 nm measurement says there was not. 

 

This can be the same thing that happens with audio. That is why one needs to divorce other senses when we listen, sometimes, they tend to get in the way. And just because we measure a difference doesn't mean there will be a perceived difference.

 

It just depends

[botrytis]

Frank,

 

We have been talking about listening to the best copy possible and you want to go to a youtube video? That is like taking a 96K MP3 and comparing it to a DSD64 file. That is utter nonsense.

 

You have been obfuscating for too long in this thread.

 

What is your system? We have shown our hands, time to show yours. No more bluffing.

[botrytis]

1 minute ago, fas42 said:

You're missing the point, Alex - every processing operation is like a reel tape generational loss - use the best R2R tape decks, do a copy of the master, do a copy of that copy, again and again - by the 20th iteration, the SQ will most likely be pretty mediocre, and obviously so. In spite of the fact that the master was pristine, and you used the best machines to do the generational thing.

 

The name of the game is to reduce those losses, when you listen to the replay of something, to the lowest possible level - if you do it really well, then subjectively, it will be indistinguishable from the source - the contents of the recording you're listening to. The very best audiophile playback will always be 'lossy', but hopefully you will get away with it, in the flesh - it will sound, "as good as it gets". But add further "generational losses", like the direct YT playback, as I described, then the imperfections of that first playback are now magnified enough to be clearly heard.

 

You are missing the point, starting with a lesser initial subject, based on what you say, it will only get worse. Why start there?

[botrytis]

12 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

No matter how poor a system is for reproducing, for where you're listening - it still creates a level playing field. You listen, on that terrible system, to a recording of a piano, and the playback of a capture of that piano, on a supposedly perfect system, which are both on the one recording - say, first real, then playback, then real, etc. It that ideal rig used did its job, you wouldn't be able to distinguish the real, from the playback.

 

The system I have is trivially obvious, and is as stated; the tweaks and workarounds are not simple, and completely invisible, or meaningless, in pictures. Thinking that an image of what I've done will tell you anything useful merely points that you don't understand my message.

 

Sorry, you haven't said ANYTHING about your system and what it entails. The obfuscation here is glaring and you have said nothing.

I will say it this way....

 

 

[botrytis]

3 hours ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

...and

 

 

 

Too bad the bagpipes just didn't burn. 

[botrytis]

14 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

Right, so you haven't read a single post on my Edifying Journey thread - smart move ...

 

I have this whole thread. You just haven't said anything . You think you are communicating but obfuscation is not communication. There was NO METHOD mentioned, just tons of hyperbole.

 

You talk about how you tweaked your system and it is inexpensive but then wax poetic about expensive systems. Which is it?

 

 

[botrytis]

12 hours ago, MarkusBarkus said:

Aarf. Aarf. The real magic is in the crystals! Secret revealed...

 

Shun Mook discs and magic rocks.

[botrytis]

Well, this is why I put my Royd Doublets in the chain, in my listening room. The designer believed in critically damped cabinets when designing speakers. So, for a lower cost speaker these cabinets are do not vibrate. Why not use steel plates with shelf liner, if you are trying to dampen things?

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/syq5hwst281wxga/20200822_102557.mp4?dl=0

 

A minute cellphone video of mine - playing an intro to a song by Erasure - it is a CD RIP.

 

See, is it hard? No, but like it to sound better

 

[botrytis]

This morning I was in a wistful mood, so I played one of my favorite recordings and recorded it. Dong-Hwa Lee - J.S.Bach: Suite for Cello Solo No. 1 in G Major BWV-1007-1 Prelude - performed on solo Tuba.  I recorded the whole piece on my phone 😅

 

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tv7tthw57obzp5z/20200823_092508.mp4?dl=0

 

This is a 96/24 file.

 

 

 

 

This room will not be tweaked any more as we will be moving to the Northern Chicago area in a few months.

 

[botrytis]

[botrytis]