MQA The Truth lies Somewhere in the Middle

[MikeyFresh]

2 hours ago, barrows said:

While I agree with this sentiment, and I certainly oppose MQA generally, boycotting of manufacturers which do allow for MQA functionality will not achieve the result you desire and most certainly will damage manufacturers who are trying very hard to produce the best possible products.

 

I absolutely understand, acknowledge, and respect this position as worthy and not lacking merit.

 

My own stance reflects my belief that these very same MQA partner companies are acting as enablers by providing licensing revenue lifeblood, as well as implied credibility by their own brand association, and marketing effort.

 

Simply put, I cannot be a party to that in any way, given my firm belief in just how anti-consumer MQA is and stands to be if successful. I am hopeful the marketplace as a whole will agree.

 

I also truly believe the record labels are complicit and involved at a behind the scenes level. When was the last time the record labels were in any way pro-consumer, or even pro-artist? The answer is never.

 

Given that seeming reality, I can't possibly support MQA partner companies as they are currently aiding and abetting this scheme. I feel badly for them if they are doing so out of sheer necessity given the current marketplace conditions, and I suspect you are right in suggesting so.

 

In the same breath, I firmly applaud companies such as EXOGAL, and no doubt many others who have taken a similar path but due to NDAs, or other considerations, have not made their stance very public.

 

 

[PorkChop]

2 hours ago, Derek Hughes said:

So Chris, here’s where your site fails on this subject. Brinkman Ship says I should be ashamed and I know that if I engaged in a debate with him or others I would receive a shit storm. 

 

But that event wasn't meant to be an open debate.  What is the point of accusing the presenter of bias?  It's THEIR presentation so of course it's an opinion.  The interrupters, being employed by, or with a financial interest in MQA, are even more biased.  The bottom line is,  it wasn't your session to disrupt like that.   If you have something to say, book your own seminar then.  You and your brethren were disgustingly rude a and disrespectful.  

[MikeyFresh]

2 minutes ago, PorkChop said:

But that event wasn't meant to be an open debate.

 

Correct, but somehow lost on genius big wigs like Jbara. Fancies himself a tough guy I guess, despite the weak-ass bullying attempt.

 

4 minutes ago, PorkChop said:

The interrupters, being employed by, or with a financial interest in MQA, are even more biased.

 

Spot on.

 

5 minutes ago, PorkChop said:

If you have something to say, book your own seminar then.  You and your brethren were disgustingly rude a and disrespectful.  

 

Yes, funny/ironic how the MQA group didn't book their own session, complete with Bob Stuart presenting. Afraid of something there? Not quite the tough bully then.

[rmaf first timer]

Long time listener first time caller.

 

not taking sides but in the video that mqa guy says there is not a mqa vinyl yet. I actually saw one at the show for sale and took a picture because I was so surprise. I also found it online.

 

my photo

 

 

 

for sale 

 

https://www.propermusic.com/product-details/Radka-Toneff-and-Steve-Dobrogosz-Fairytales-Original-Master-Edition-MQA-LP-253561

[MikeyFresh]

56 minutes ago, rmaf first timer said:

Long time listener first time caller.

 

not taking sides but in the video that mqa guy says there is not a mqa vinyl yet. I actually saw one at the show for sale and took a picture because I was so surprise. I also found it online.

 

my photo

 

 

 

for sale 

 

https://www.propermusic.com/product-details/Radka-Toneff-and-Steve-Dobrogosz-Fairytales-Original-Master-Edition-MQA-LP-253561

 

Wow, so an early digital tape recording done on the ancient (1980) Mitsubishi X-80 at 16-bit/50.4 kHz is the source for that 180g vinyl LP. Or was it the Soundstream 16-bit/50kHz system that Bob has the complete details and fix for?

 

So we are to believe Bob Stuart did his digital magic on such a source, knowing all about the A/D technology of the day employed by Mitsubishi, Soundstream, 3M, Decca etc... and fully correcting for that 38-42 years later complete with "deblurring"  and whatever other BS the MQA origami entails to produce a vinyl LP mastering extraordinaire?

 

Dare I ask what the price of admission is to own such a truly awesome LP record sourced from 1976-80 era digital tape is? 

 

What's the next release in that series, The Nightfly? Yellowjackets?

 

Oh sorry, The Nightfly is already a thing. I'm sure Bob got his hands on the original digital master tapes in order to ensure Master Quality Authenticated exactly as the artist and recording engineer intended, nothing less.

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Here is a copy of my slides as a PDF if anyone is interested.

 

Thanks again for the support. I'm going to bed. Got a very early flight in the morning. 

 

[bobfa]

Chris,

 

I hope that you can finish a show report.  You found some exciting things there.  Those of us who cannot attend the show appreciate the effort it takes to report on the show. 

 

I watched the video of your presentation, and I feel your pain.  That was not fun. Keep challenging!

 

I appreciate what this community has done.  I have learned more in the last year reading and participating a bit.  

 

 

 

“You can't go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending!”

C.S. Lewis

[NoisyNarrowBandDevice]

9 hours ago, Archimago said:

 

Agree.

 

Classic example of the way this operates. Never deal with the facts. Not once did they acknowledge that the FFT shows something is wrong. No explanation for the crypto. Just attack the guy.

 

Looks like Chris didn't get to see the chat on YouTube. Christoph was there as well.

 

 

 

Yes I watched from Germany late at night. Much too agitating just before bedtime I have to admit. Their behavior towards Chris and his presentation was appealing. Zero engagement with the facts, straight up denial instead of constructive criticism + going ad hominem.

 

Can somebody please make a GIF of the guy banging the table - comedy gold!

 

The only thing this shows is that the criticism hits a nerve with them. 

 

Chris did a good job when they tried to disrepute your work on MQA via the tired anonymity argument: "I put it out there because everybody can reproduce what Archimago did." That's exactly the point: what Archimago did anybody with a little technical knowledge can reproduce.

 

Their response to that: "why didn't anybody?"

 

Well if MQA wants it reproduced why not setting up a panel of independent engineers trying just that. I am sure both sides could come up with a few names to agree upon.

 

 

 

 

[BigAlMc]

7 hours ago, Derek Hughes said:

I was in the audience and did interrupt and made some negative comments. In my opinion, despite Chris stating that he was going to be impartial, his presentation was anything but. 

 

Hi Derek,

 

I actually salute your honesty in popping up on this thread to admit interrupting Chris and obviously it goes without stating you're entitled to your opinion.

 

Also for every Brinkmanship with his vitriol there's an open minded reader just trying to learn / decide. I've tried to keep an open mind but I'm less and less convinced.

 

We are all for the most part professional or retired professionals in our chosen fields. My issue with yesterdays heckling is that the MQA guys and yourself interrupted continuously for the entire presentation. That would be totally unacceptable in most professional circumstances and after the first few heckles the protagonists would be told to take it offline.

 

I'm not surprised that Chris is licking his wounds as it made for uncomfortable viewing as a sustained and presumably coordinated attack.

 

Bravo to Chris for perseverance. Shame on the MQA gang (and I'm using that word deliberately) for taking the heckling way too far and for sheer lack of professionalism.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[PeterSt]

34 minutes ago, NoisyNarrowBandDevice said:

Their behavior towards Chris and his presentation was appealing.

 

Appalling.

Small difference and I am sure you like my correction better. 

[NoisyNarrowBandDevice]

2 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

 

Appalling.

Small difference and I am sure you like my correction better. 

 

Ouch - I meant appalling indeed.

 

Can't figure out how to edit my post - not possible?

[PeterSt]

39 minutes ago, NoisyNarrowBandDevice said:

Can somebody please make a GIF of the guy banging the table - comedy gold!

 

I'd love to. Is that really in there somewhere ? ... where ?

[PeterSt]

1 minute ago, NoisyNarrowBandDevice said:

Can't figure out how to edit my post - not possible?

 

It's all right. Everybody understands. Hey, English is difficult some times.

 

If there is no Edit button between Quote and Bookmark (near the bottom of your post) it is just too late. 

[NoisyNarrowBandDevice]

3 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

 

I'd love to. Is that really in there somewhere ? ... where ?

Video here:

 

 

Go to minute 33:51 & enjoy!

 

[PeterSt]

4 minutes ago, NoisyNarrowBandDevice said:

Go to minute 33:51 & enjoy!

 

Yes, I just found it myself. OK, wait ...

[firedog]

Wow, Chris. 

CEO of MQA hit you with marketing speak and dared to say he is "all about facts". And they are hung up on Archi's identity, but refuse to actually deal with what he wrote. 
The best part was Mike complaining that you used an actual MQA logo with "lossless"  and simultaneously claimed that they hadn't said they were lossless because they no longer say they are lossless. 

[senorx]

After watching the video of Chris' presentation at RMAF, the presence of Mr. Forsythe and the other representative of MQA who was there (CEO?) was apparently designed to prevent Chris from actually presenting the facts as he intended. Their performance was shameful and reeked of desperation. It was embarrassing. Sorry Chris. Nice try, but they are desperate (apparently) for the facts to not be discussed. Clearly it is more important to know who Archi really is.

[PeterSt]

29 minutes ago, firedog said:

The best part was Mike complaining that you used an actual MQA logo with "lossless"  and simultaneously claimed that they hadn't said they were lossless because they no longer say they are lossless. 

 

Hey hey. In 2016 all was still lossless.

So we were all fooled with false pre-production files, liked them and went for it.

 

Yuck.

 

Next time someone should be next to you (Chris) because it requires focus on such texts (of Mike in this case) and think of a response. When attempting a presentation at the same time, this is impossible. Or at least too difficult.

[rwdvis]

7 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Only anecdotal - but I did speak with several DAC vendors at RMAF who said they were implementing MQA support due to customer demand, despite their own ambivalence with the format.

 

FWIW.

The fact that you failed to consider the possibility that manufacturers are more likely hearing from MQA PR/marketing, posing as customers; or that manufacturers are simply lying about “customer demand” in order to take advantage of MQA early adoption discounts, tells me that you’re not sufficiently skeptical to become a respected writer in this industry.

[PeterSt]

17 minutes ago, rwdvis said:

or that manufacturers are simply lying about “customer demand”

 

That.

[jma2]

Hope you got some sleep Chris.

 

After yesterday my "somewhere in the middle" shifted dramatically. Tidal has been replaced by Qobuz and my next DAC will for sure be without MQA support.

 

Kind regards,

Jan

[One and a half]

When a company is bleeding GBP19,438.74 per day, there's going to be anger to those who question and lay down facts. The MQA gang have their interests in their greedy, manipulative ways to make money and will strike out at anything that doesn't suit them.

Well tough luck MQA, lose more pounds per day, FU.

 

@The Computer Audiophile - Presentation well done, you drove a knife into the blubber that is MQA. Good on ya Chris!

[firedog]

1 hour ago, rwdvis said:

The fact that you failed to consider the possibility that manufacturers are more likely hearing from MQA PR/marketing, posing as customers; or that manufacturers are simply lying about “customer demand” in order to take advantage of MQA early adoption discounts, tells me that you’re not sufficiently skeptical to become a respected writer in this industry.

I don't think it means they are lying. I think it means they are using anecdotal methods like email to  determine "customer demand"; in other words,  coming to a conclusion of high demand when what they really have is a small, very interested subgroup. 

[senorx]

I would like to be a fly on the wall for a discussion (and I use this term advisedly, as the MQA people don't seem to want to have a real discussion) between the MQA army and Mike Moffat. I think that would be entertaining.

[jparvio]

The way I see it most of the  people that were participating and arguing (not very crowded based on the video, eh)  had lost their 15kHz and above a decade or two ago .

 

Not sure if RMAF is THE place to fight this War.

 

My oh my, we are in deep ***t.

 

EDIT: Thanks Chris for rocking the Boat. Consumers have the right to know both sides.