MQA The Truth lies Somewhere in the Middle

[sandyk]

25 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

The album as originally recorded doesn’t have to be good or bad. It’s a piece of art work that shouldn’t be changed. Especially not in the name of making it better. Making it different is cool with me but don’t claim better because that’s a pure lie unless everyone involved in the original signs off on the new one. 

 

I don’t think we should be going through the Van Gogh museum in Amsterdam saturating the colors a bit more than was possible at the time Vincent was alive.

 

A change is a change is a change. 

 

 It  could be interesting to see a report from somebody like Barry Diament , with a few of his more recent high res recordings compared with and without MQA processing ? 

[The Computer Audiophile]

I keep asking myself what’s in it for Lee to continue to be proven wrong but keep coming back again and again. 

 

I’m totally cool if people like MQA and support it and want to factually discuss it, but this is on a whole different level.  

 

In all other things in life it would be a no-brainer, follow the money. 

 

I feel like we’re going to have to ask for tax returns from people who continually do the work of MQA ltd here on CA.

[kumakuma]

12 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I keep asking myself what’s in it for Lee to continue to be proven wrong but keep coming back again and again. 

 

I’m totally cool if people like MQA and support it and want to factually discuss it, but this is on a whole different level.  

 

I suspect that @Lee Scoggins is trying to get you to ban him so that he can be "proven right" about you being biased against MQA.

[Don Hills]

16 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

...

In all other things in life it would be a no-brainer, follow the money. 

...

 

In the case of Bob Stuart and MQA, it's all about the money.

In the case of the record labels, it''s about the money (and control).

To think otherwise would be to conclude that Bob and the record labels are poor businesspeople. 

(Actually, given Bob's record at making a profit, this could be true for him.)

 

But yeah, I wonder about Lee too.

 

 

 

 

[Lee Scoggins]

53 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Well look, I’m up for the Lennon and Beatles remasters. And I’d be up for MQA if it gave a clearer window into the original. But I’ve never heard an MQA track sound clearer than the hi res or RedBook version.

 

And I'm quite happy with Giles Martin doing remixing the Beatles or Steven Wilson remixing classic rock albums.

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, Lee Scoggins said:

 

And I'm quite happy with Giles Martin doing remixing the Beatles or Steven Wilson remixing classic rock albums.

I love those but they weren’t sold as better than the originals. They were sold as different from the originals. 

[Lee Scoggins]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

The album as originally recorded doesn’t have to be good or bad. It’s a piece of art work that shouldn’t be changed. Especially not in the name of making it better. Making it different is cool with me but don’t claim better because that’s a pure lie unless everyone involved in the original signs off on the new one. 

 

I don’t think we should be going through the Van Gogh museum in Amsterdam saturating the colors a bit more than was possible at the time Vincent was alive.

 

A change is a change is a change. 

 

It really varies by artist and album.  Some would want a sound closer to what they heard in the studio.  In my experience, that includes classical, jazz, and some pop/rock artists. We did an album with Liv Taylor and he was very particular about his guitar sound and his vocals.

 

But on reissues of records on tape, you can mostly assume the tape is the historical record and anything we can do to get that tape sound in a CD or LP is welcome.  The new Doors Waiting for the Sun used a Plangent process to improve the tape transfer and then used MQA to further help it on the CD.  The guitar open to Spanish Caravan is breathtakingly real on my big rig.

[The Computer Audiophile]

6 minutes ago, Lee Scoggins said:

Some would want a sound closer to what they heard in the studio

MQA doesn’t get you closer to what was heard in the studio because the A to D “issues” were heard in the studio. Removing those “issues” creates a new piece of art different from and separate from the original. 

[Jud]

10 minutes ago, Lee Scoggins said:

 

It really varies by artist and album.  Some would want a sound closer to what they heard in the studio.  In my experience, that includes classical, jazz, and some pop/rock artists. We did an album with Liv Taylor and he was very particular about his guitar sound and his vocals.

 

But on reissues of records on tape, you can mostly assume the tape is the historical record and anything we can do to get that tape sound in a CD or LP is welcome.  The new Doors Waiting for the Sun used a Plangent process to improve the tape transfer and then used MQA to further help it on the CD.  The guitar open to Spanish Caravan is breathtakingly real on my big rig.

 

It does bug me that good remastering (I’ve heard good results from the Plangent process) is being what I consider somewhat wasted on MQA. It would be nice to hear that Waiting for the Sun remaster in regular RedBook or hi res.  Is it available in either of those formats?

[STC]

I didn't follow this thread but I am interested to find out whether http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=19396  was in this discussion? If so please let me know the page. Thank you.

[Lee Scoggins]

3 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

It does bug me that good remastering (I’ve heard good results from the Plangent process) is being what I consider somewhat wasted on MQA. It would be nice to hear that Waiting for the Sun remaster in regular RedBook or hi res.  Is it available in either of those formats?

 

I believe the MQA is on the CD but the bundled LP is just Plangent.

[Lee Scoggins]

6 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

MQA doesn’t get you closer to what was heard in the studio because the A to D “issues” were heard in the studio. Removing those “issues” creates a new piece of art different from and separate from the original. 

 

Not true.  The artist is more concerned with the live event in the studio more often than the end product.  MQA is getting closer to the live event and, thus the artist's intentions.

[Lee Scoggins]

Most studio sessions I have been to, the artists listen to what is coming out of the mixing board (sometimes there is not even mixing) amplified.  So all MQA is doing is fixing that ADC-DAC two step that happens in ADC conversion and DAC playback.

 

One example would be Telarc recordings they do of the Atlanta Symphony.  Spano listens to either headphones or monitors, usually the latter.  He cares about the performance of the musicians.  He relies on  the engineer and producer to bring it all together.

[Currawong]

 

On 10/16/2018 at 6:45 AM, John_Atkinson said:

 

I have some of the original files that MQA provided reviewers in 2015, along with their PCM equivalents.

 

 

Would you consider making the originals and MQA versions available to the public to listen to and examine?

 

5 hours ago, Lee Scoggins said:

One reason that Peter McGrath is so enamored of his MQA-encoded recordings is that it gets him closer to the live event.  He hears more of the room, he feels the instruments sound more like what he heard.

 

 

They were white-glove-treated recordings weren't they? Which means MQA could have done anything to them and it has nothing to do with the whole MQA ecosystem, but someone would have mastered them by hand. 

 

This is completely different to what is on TIDAL, where the labels have run albums through some kind of bulk DSP system which has done everything from distort the recordings to adding fake high-res content.

 

1 hour ago, MikeyFresh said:

 

Master Quality Adulterated

 

That's brilliant. I think everyone needs to post that so that MQA comes up on Google with that title instead of the original, which is now misleading.

[MikeyFresh]

32 minutes ago, Jud said:

It would be nice to hear that Waiting for the Sun remaster in regular RedBook or hi res.  Is it available in either of those formats?

 

Of course it is, how convenient for Lee to leave out all mention of the unadulterated 24/192 download of this 50th Anniversary reissue.

 

Also disingenuous in Lee trying to latch onto the legit Plangent Process as in any way related to or otherwise complimentary to Master Quality Adulterated/DRM.

 

Plangent corrects for wow and flutter in analogue tape sources, there is no hitching of MQA's wagon to Plangent's Process. Nice try Lee.

[MikeyFresh]

38 minutes ago, Lee Scoggins said:

But on reissues of records on tape, you can mostly assume the tape is the historical record and anything we can do to get that tape sound in a CD or LP is welcome.

 

Say what? Thats been done, with examples far too numerous to mention.

 

No need at all for Master Quality Adulterated/DRM,  these CDs and LPs have been enjoyed by countless millions of people for many decades now. 

[Jud]

32 minutes ago, Lee Scoggins said:

 

I believe the MQA is on the CD but the bundled LP is just Plangent.

 

So folks who want non-MQA digital that went through the Plangent process can’t have it. Restricting the opportunity I might have to listen to an improved version in my preferred format doesn’t make me happy.

 

Edit: Ah, thanks @MikeyFresh. So the format I want *is* available.

[MikeyFresh]

30 minutes ago, Lee Scoggins said:

I believe the MQA is on the CD

 

No one will buy that CD, it's safe to say MQA-CD isn't really a thing, stillborn at best.

[MikeyFresh]

2 minutes ago, Jud said:

So folks who want non-MQA digital that went through the Plangent process can’t have it. Restricting the opportunity I might have to listen to an improved version in my preferred format doesn’t make me happy.

 

You can (see 2 posts above).

 

The record labels wish for that day, but consumers will prevent it from happening.

[MikeyFresh]

31 minutes ago, Lee Scoggins said:

Not true.  The artist is more concerned with the live event in the studio more often than the end product.  MQA is getting closer to the live event and, thus the artist's intentions.

 

Pure gibberish.

[MikeyFresh]

26 minutes ago, Lee Scoggins said:

So all MQA is doing is fixing that ADC-DAC two step that happens in ADC conversion and DAC playback.

 

No it isn't. "Fixing" exactly what?

[MikeyFresh]

51 minutes ago, Currawong said:

They were white-glove-treated recordings weren't they? Which means MQA could have done anything to them and it has nothing to do with the whole MQA ecosystem, but someone would have mastered them by hand. 

 

Thats right, all part of an elaborate attempt at bait & switch.

 

51 minutes ago, Currawong said:

This is completely different to what is on TIDAL, where the labels have run albums through some kind of bulk DSP system which has done everything from distort the recordings to adding fake high-res content.

 

 

Yes, this is Lee's infamous encoder in the cloud, allowing anonymous label staff to hamburger batch process at lowest cost/highest speed. Beware that Warner catalog on Master Quality Adulterated, it did not receive the white glove treatment at all... artist/engineer/producer were not involved, there is no "authentication" of any kind, unless you mean DRM.

 

[firedog]

8 hours ago, Lee Scoggins said:

that could create momentum among some for better quality 16/44 files that people would pay extra for..

What are you talking about? MQA has zero advantage for 16/44 files. 
And as we see with Tidal, the real consumer demand (shown by willingness to pay) is close to zero when compared with the numbers willing to pay for 320mp3.

[firedog]

8 hours ago, Lee Scoggins said:

That creates more money for the labels and services and also a path to solve the serious problem of needing to provide more $ to the artists.

And what makes you think the labels have any intention of more money going to the artists? So far they've only used streaming platforms as a way of taking almost all the money involved for themselves. Why should this change with MQA as opposed to any other platform streaming CD quality today? 

[firedog]

3 hours ago, Lee Scoggins said:

 

Not true.  The artist is more concerned with the live event in the studio more often than the end product.  MQA is getting closer to the live event and, thus the artist's intentions.

Nonsense as a blanket statement. Most recordings have no "live event".