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MQA The Truth lies Somewhere in the Middle


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  • 2 weeks later...
34 minutes ago, Jud said:

So whether you are using a filter with 7 taps or 7000, if it rings it is going to be ringing as long as samples are running through it.

 

(I’m not focusing on ringing out of a particular concern for it, but because that is what MQA says it wants to ameliorate - as far as I can tell from their non-standard terminology, “blurring.”)

A particular input sample can only affect the output for the duration of filter (that's why it's called Finite Impulse Response). So-called ringing occurs only around step-like events in the input. A short filter thus limits the duration of "ringing" instances more than a longer one does.

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38 minutes ago, firedog said:

I own one of those but run it on the previous (5.2) firmware which is non MQA.  I asked iFi about this. It isn't the fault of MQA or HRM, per se. The device doesn't have the capacity to do both MQA and also act as a USB>SPDIF converter. To allow it to do MQA, they need to devote one of the cores to it, and they sacrificed the core that previously did SPDIF. They therefore give users a choice: one firmware version without MQA and with the SPDIF out, and another with MQA, but the SPDIF out is eliminated. 

 

Here's their actual response:

Just to be clear, yes, there are insufficient resources on the 8-core devices to run MQA renderer AND SPDIF out. This is what is fitted, so there is no debate why it is not there.

Their code must be horribly inefficient if this is true.

 

38 minutes ago, firedog said:

If there was an SPDIF out, it would just be the same signal as the MQA core decoder in the software decodes. The same is true for any other SPDIF out under MQA.

 

In other words, it would be the same as loading firmware 5.2 (no MQA) and setting the software (Tidal, Roon, Audirvana) to output the first unfold digital signal (88.2/96kHz).

 

The device fed via SPDIF would then require an SPDIF based MQA renderer component to perform the rest of the MQA unfolding in the DAC fed via SPDIF.

This is correct. I guess it hasn't occurred to them that someone might still want that functionality.

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5 minutes ago, Archimago said:

Cool. Hope Mr. Forsythe agrees to attend. Even better if he brings some information to present that might help us understand what we might be missing with this "elegant" codec.

I won't be surprised if the session is "mysteriously" cancelled at the last minute. Wouldn't be the first time.

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7 minutes ago, tmtomh said:

@mansr, I think it's pretty clear what @The Computer Audiophile is trying to say: He's "not out to take down MQA," in the sense that he's doesn't have an agenda to try to kill MQA without regard for what the facts of MQA might actually be. He wants to promote and disseminate the facts at MQA and let the chips fall where they may.

Do I need to explain the meaning of the word "troll"?

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29 minutes ago, Shadders said:

The MQA paper :

A Hierarchical Approach to Archiving and Distribution

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=17501

 

States that dispersion is blur :

"When considering the frequency and time responses of an end-to-end distribution channel, we must bear in mind that time dispersion or ‘blur’ can build up through a cascade of otherwise blameless components. Figure 3
illustrates the response of a cascade built up to eight stages, each with a 2nd-order roll-off at 30 kHz, possibly representing a microphone, preamplifier, mixer,....
"

They never state that their method fixes it.

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9 minutes ago, rn701 said:

Those MQA guys were incredibly rude. I would have had security escort them out.

Yes, that is the best way to deal with hecklers. Refuse to engage with them, no matter how tempting. If necessary, refuse to continue the presentation until they shut up. This will turn the rest of the audience against the heckler. Under no circumstances give them microphones.

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2 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

I believe there were valid points from opposiing views...specifically about the logo.  I do believe Chris should have stated it was an old logo when he first said it was their logo.  In retrospect, it is actually a damning point that they did change the logo, and that it would actually serve more purpose by stating it was an old logo.

That's what he did. Or at least was trying to do when the MQA dogs attacked.

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4 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

In the presentation, He stated "he got the logo straight from MQA"...he didn't state it was old until after they said it was old and hasn't been used since 2016.

 

Again, i don't know if it was oversight or on purpose, but if he did know it was old, he should have stated so, and actually use it in presentation to hammer the point, such as.....

 

e.g. MQA used to advertise it was lossless, and even used this logo back in 2016.  They have subsequently removed the logo as they have admitted defeat in this area, that it is NOT lossless....or similar verbiage.

Look at the slides. It's clear where he was going with it.

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3 hours ago, MarkS said:

I watched the video, and, for what it is worth, I also thought the MQA “team” in attendance was rude and embarrassed themselves. 

Nevertheless, they achieved their goal. They ruined the presentation and filled it with their FUD instead. Nobody attending be remembering any of the points Chris raised, only the skewering he received.

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19 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

Everyone in the room will remember the MQA representatives desperation. And Derek Hughes pounding the table asking us why we don’t believe them when they say there is no DRM?

Only the extremely rational. The rest will remember whoever was loudest.

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