Everything sounds the same

[marce]

1 minute ago, PeterSt said:

 

That's exactly our problem. Or your problem. No wait, you don't have a problem with it at all.

Easy said though.

 

7500 euros. Take it up.

I have a problem with it every day, as do many others... On Ralphs thread regarding DAC's I gave quite a long reply on some problems with DAC's mainly regarding layout, a critical factor in any circuit working at it's best.

[PeterSt]

3 minutes ago, marce said:

On Ralphs thread regarding DAC's I gave quite a long reply on some problems with DAC's mainly regarding layout,

 

All right. Which Ralph and which thread (no, post), please ?

I will not focus on being your pain in there, but I might coincidentally be.

Thank you, Marce.

[jabbr]

34 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

 

Euro 7500 for your solution. This includes expenses for you to travel to us over here so you can check out the results.

Otoh it also includes my full cooperation.

 

So ?

Ha!

 

@JohnSwenson said that he spent 6 months tracking down "high impedance leakage" in their product, and so @marce get's an hourly rate of ??? - cost to set up an EMI lab?

 

[marce]

5 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

 

All right. Which Ralph and which thread (no, post), please ?

I will not focus on being your pain in there, but I might coincidentally be.

Thank you, Marce.

 

there are many other posts here and on other forums regarding noise and noise mitigation etc.

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, alfe said:

Hi Jon,

Thanks to error correction otherwise your NAS will be full of garbage .? 

 

Al

 if you have access to a decent media player that can play BR discs with .mp4 videos o them via HDMI to a HDTV I would be happy to send you a BR disc for you to evaluate. You will find that the Audible differences aren't subtle either despite the identical .md5 checksums of each pair of videos. With some videos the Regen version has almost blinding coloured strobe lighting !

 

 I am off on the 110KM trip to Sydney now.

 Regards

Alex

[wgscott]

35 minutes ago, marce said:

On Ralphs thread regarding DAC's 

 

 

30 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

Which Ralph

 

 

Well-played!

 

Must be some sort of conservation of apostrophe error.

[alfe]

34 minutes ago, sandyk said:

Al

 if you have access to a decent media player that can play BR discs with .mp4 videos o them via HDMI to a HDTV I would be happy to send you a BR disc for you to evaluate. You will find that the Audible differences aren't subtle either despite the identical .md5 checksums of each pair of videos. With some videos the Regen version has almost blinding coloured strobe lighting !

 

 I am off on the 110KM trip to Sydney now.

 Regards

Alex

Hi Alex,

Why do I need a decent player to play .mp4 ?

[fas42]

12 hours ago, firedog said:

Thanks for your thorough answer. 
We will have agree to disagree on one point: I'd still call what the cable does coloring. I understand why you don't. We have a different definition of what the word means in this context.

 

All systems colour ... normally. What we're aiming for is zero audible colouring by any part of the rig - and the cable by impacting the analogue qualities of the digital transmission of data plays a part in that; if the optimum configuration of the cable is found, by trial and error, then the level of system colouring may be very significantly reduced.

 

How do you know when you have minimum colouring? Well, the Wow! factor goes through the roof, for a start - because you are getting closer to hearing the recording, and only the recording - the system "disappears" ...

[fas42]

12 hours ago, Rexp said:

Yeah and appreciation of art is subjective. So until you come up with a way of measuring sound quality, us audiophiles will stick with what we think sounds best. 

 

The speakers completely disappearing is an excellent 'measurement' - and can be tested by as strict a conventional methodology as one wants to put in place. Competent sound and impossible to locate aurally drivers always correlate, for me at least ... "sounding best" is far, far too open to be useful.

[fas42]

6 hours ago, PeterSt said:

 

George, you rightfully put the coloration between quotes. So mind you please - I start out with that it is not about coloration to begin with while someone else suggest I claimed that - read in the Lush^2 thread and you see me explicitly saying that it is not about that BUT it is about frequency balance (which, I know, is close). Then in order to go along with the person's thinking who now suggests that nobody wants a cable which colors, I make that a "removes coloring" (which never has in my book anywhere, but when forced in a corner) and now it is about how cables can color.

You know what ? end of story - no claim.

 

 

The 'thinking' that makes it very straighforward to digest is to consider that every system is an electrical gestalt - sticking big labels on one set of boxes with the word DIGITAL, and the other set with the word ANALOGUE is a nice convenience - which doesn't stop degrading interaction occurring; but may blind one to that possibility ... . Optimum sound means minimal perceived colouration - I find the word "distortion" has much more grunt than "colouration"; you've got the issue right in your gunsights that way.

 

Frequency balance? I never think in those terms - the sound is either tainted, or it's not. If it's not tainted then "all the frequencies work" - because the audible characteristics match that of normal, live, everyday sounds.

[fas42]

3 hours ago, marce said:

I have a problem with it every day, as do many others... On Ralphs thread regarding DAC's I gave quite a long reply on some problems with DAC's mainly regarding layout, a critical factor in any circuit working at it's best.

 

I have never used USB, but I don't like what I see in the circuits which receive the data, and pass it onto the D to A converter - to me, the ones I have looked at all have flaws in the implementation - no wonder people are struggling to get this right!!

[kumakuma]

6 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

I have never used USB, but I don't like what I see in the circuits which receive the data, and pass it onto the D to A converter - to me, the ones I have looked at all have flaws in the implementation - no wonder people are struggling to get this right!!

 

So how are you connecting your DAC to your computer?

[fas42]

14 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

So how are you connecting your DAC to your computer?

 

I always used CDs, and lately just used the circuitry of the computer alone, including its DAC, for playback. I have never used a DAC as a standalone component, ever - one reason why it's "easier" for me ... .

 

Also why I didn't bother the good folk on CA in earlier times ... "Computer audio" ?? Something to try one day down the track ...

[esldude]

4 hours ago, sandyk said:

Hi Peter

 It's just after 5AM here , and I have to leave for Sydney at 6AM. I will be in Sydney all day.
These were from a series of pairs of TV screen  photos that Dennis has seen, that illustrate ,. but don't by themselves prove the differences between the comparison Music Videos on BR discs with identical check sums that I sent him, even with a cheat sheet pointing out the most obvious differences. That's what the actual BR discs are for ! 
They were taken from my Samsung 40" HD TV using a cheap Canon A480 camera without access to a  tripod, and needed a little straightening (2degrees anti clockwise.) and cropping  in Photoshop.

 
 Both versions of the Music Videos were saved to the same folder on a USB memory stick.
 I took these as a last resort to try and show Dennis what his Laptop and projector were not capable of resolving, with the very obvious audible differences either from the BR discs with .mp4 videos on them, or as a last resort the USB memory stick I also sent him. (His BR player wouldn't play .mp4 videos)

Audiophile Neuroscience and 2 of his friends have also verified my reports via David's new 4K TV.

 I deliberately put the comparison videos on BR discs to be played from a decent media player such as an Oppo 103 or later model via HDMI into a HDTV to get away from crappy laptops and mediocre PCs.

Basically, the duller and less contrast versions were created by plugging a USB memory stick into a >3M long USB cable plugged into a USB 3.0 front port.

 The more detailed and higher contrast versions were created using a USB Regen powered via a JLH PSU add-on where one of the parallel 4700uF electros in the capacitance multiplier section was replaced by a Low ESR Panasonic FC 4700uF which accentuated HF detail with both A and V.

The last series of 6 pairs of comparison video images were mainly obtained by pausing the Oppo 103 on the several seconds long artist photo at the start of the SNL clips, were taken in strict order to show that I hadn't just tried to manipulate the results.

 In each case the duller looking version has the lower img.xxx number.

Both versions were from the same source file on my OS SSD.

 

The only thing that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING an A or V file to CLOSE to that of the original. How an Audio file will sound , or a Video look, is governed mainly by the PSU area and how electrically quiet the computer is.

 

So are you now saying, that if I get bit perfect copies onto a USB memory stick, regardless of the supply used in making that stick, I can play it back over a system with some nice linear power supplies all the way around, and the originating PS has no effect on final sound quality?  That would be a change from prior claims would it not?

[pkane2001]

4 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

I always used CDs, and lately just used the circuitry of the computer alone, including its DAC, for playback. I have never used a DAC as a standalone component, ever - one reason why it's "easier" for me ... .

 

Also why I didn't bother the good folk on CA in earlier times ... "Computer audio" ?? Something to try one day down the track ...

 

That’s like... a car mechanic giving advice  on troubleshooting a fuel injection system who has never seen anything other than a carburetor

[fas42]

I used to read of the nightmares people were having getting good sound when the data had to be reclocked in the DAC,  just from a mechanical player - in the HiFi News mag. And the endless debates about strategies ... the jump from one box to the next is a weak link; simple solution, eliminate it ...

[kumakuma]

 

30 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

That’s like... a car mechanic giving advice  on troubleshooting a fuel injection system who has never seen anything other than a carburetor

 

Or the Wright brothers trying to fly an Airbus A320...

[kumakuma]

38 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

I always used CDs, and lately just used the circuitry of the computer alone, including its DAC, for playback. I have never used a DAC as a standalone component, ever - one reason why it's "easier" for me ... .

 

Hence all the generalities and hand-waving in your posts...

[elcorso]

14 hours ago, marce said:

No creating the music is art, listening is not.

 

 

 

Roch

 

PS/  Frank is an example.

[kumakuma]

2 minutes ago, elcorso said:

 

 

 

Roch

 

PS/  Frank is an example.

 

An artist of BS, perhaps...

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, esldude said:

So are you now saying, that if I get bit perfect copies onto a USB memory stick, regardless of the supply used in making that stick, I can play it back over a system with some nice linear power supplies all the way around, and the originating PS has no effect on final sound quality?  That would be a change from prior claims would it not?

You know damn well that's not what I said or what I mean. !!!

[esldude]

36 minutes ago, sandyk said:

You know damn well that's not what I said or what I mean. !!!

It did seem to be what you were saying.  Which is why I asked the question.  It didn't fit with what you've said before. 

 

And we are back to the idea in some form or fashion that no one can figure out the power supply when ones and zeroes are written somehow shows up in the output.  No matter how clean and good playback of identical ones and zeroes, they sound different if they were originally created by clean vs dirty power supplies.  Or is this also not what you are saying?

[Jud]

On 9/22/2018 at 3:52 PM, mansr said:

my reluctance to stop trusting established laws of physics

 

I am not sure how your particular level of knowledge of audio engineering equates to "established laws of physics."  Obviously whatever is happening, whether it is what you expected and Mani got lucky, or it isn't what you expected and there's really something to this, works within physical laws, and I'm quite certain we don't need any new laws to explain it one way or the other.

[esldude]

13 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

I am not sure how your particular level of knowledge of audio engineering equates to "established laws of physics."  Obviously whatever is happening, whether it is what you expected and Mani got lucky, or it isn't what you expected and there's really something to this, works within physical laws, and I'm quite certain we don't need any new laws to explain it one way or the other.

Unexpected ability by some to connect with parallel universes with different physical properties.  Without his knowledge, it allowed Mani to know how things turned out in an infinity of other universes, and therefore without conscious effort to make the correct choices even though it is impossible in this universe.  Not surprising that mansr couldn't hear the difference as he isn't able to connect with parallel versions of himself in alternate universes.  In fact this fits with the theory there actually is no luck.  Instances of luck are isolated to individuals who have evolved this ability to connect many other versions of themselves.  

 

This also explains Alex's results with bit perfect files sounding different.  Proving that connecting with alternate universes is not always a positive thing.  

[RunHomeSlow]

Wasn’t this thread a stupid one at first, now getting too much serious ? Glad i’m just passing by... 23 pages!