Article: Dutch & Dutch 8c Loudspeaker Review

[PeterG]

Some great interesting stuff here, but very hard to put these into context.  What do they cost?  How do they compare to the usual suspects near that price point, such as B&W, Focal, Sonus Faber, etc?  Who should buy them?

[PeterG]

16 hours ago, mitchco said:

They don't compare to the usual suspects is the point of my article. This is next level loudspeaker engineering that takes into consideration room effects, that other manufactures do not...  Amongst the other points made in my conclusion.

 

With all due respect, I think you've missed my point.  Whatever the technical benefits or features might be, we still need to know how good they sound, and that requires a reference to something that most of us understand

[PeterG]

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Given that the room is the biggest instrument and has the largest effect on sound, how do you suggest someone start with a reference that everyone can understand?

 

Interesting question in two ways, starting with the "reference".  Now that you push me, I see that I do not mean reference in the literal sense--I mean that a reviewer needs to put us in the ballpark of how he is defining "good".  The answer I was looking for would be something like--"beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so you should listen for yourself, but the 8c's are good competition for other stand-mounts in the $5-10K range such as....Of course you'll need to buy an amp for those".  Virtually every professional review does this, including your own.

 

Back to your assertion that the room is the biggest instrument.  That may be the answer to the big question--maybe the 8c's are not in the big leagues in a good room, but jump to the front of the pack in a problem room?  I am not asserting that either of these things is true

 

I also do not accept the idea that these are unique in the way that matters most--i.e. there's more than one way to skin a cat.  I'd really like to know how a person might evaluate the 8c's and a headphone amp (as Mitchco has done) against a price comparable combo of amp/speakers/room correction, or just amp/speakers in a typical room.  The whole area of room correction is fascinating, important, and debatable--let's have the debate!

 

Big picture--I think CA's guest reviewers bring a welcome fresh take.  Mitchco has written a terrific piece that we never would have read elsewhere.  But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.  There are certain things that every review should include.  Price and performance against some defined competition are two of those things.
 

 

[PeterG]

15 hours ago, mitchco said:

 

Peter, as you may or may not know, I am big into digital room correction. You will find four articles here on CA, plus a book. 

 

I understand what you are saying. Based on the directivity and voicing of the 8c's, I would say that super smooth, tilted response would sound similar to the Revel Salon2's.  If one overlaid the frequency responses measured at the LP, they are quite alike...

 

The issue is that many speakers are still voiced using a flawed approach, as mentioned in the soapbox section and elsewhere. Sean Olive and other studies have shown that there is no correlation between price and frequency response.   When it comes to speakers, frequency response is the determining factor for our subjective opinion of sound quality. This makes it harder to compare to other speakers...

 

Thanks, Mitch--I will read all of these.  I am just getting started in my thinking on room correction, but I expect it to be very helpful.  I have a pretty good system (Naim Uniti Core into Yggy into McIntosh C22/MC275 VI into B&W 805D3 and DB3D) in a compromised room (the open concept living room I share with my wife who insists that our living room look like a living room).  It's on my to-do list for the Fall to try out a MEN220, but I'm open to anything that will fit into the current chain and is implementable by an amateur.  Cheers!