Audio_ELF Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Just a quick poll here ... which way do you see computer based audio going for you? a) continuing with the current situation (for most people) of a off the shelf or custom build PC (Mac or Windows or Linux) connected via USB or FireWire (or SPDIF of some form) to a separate DAC or b) an Ethernet connected "streamer" device which incorporates a high quality DAC, controlled by hand held touch screen (e.g. like Linn DS, PS PWD + Bridge, Naim NDX, etc.) and fed direct by NAS. This is just a straw poll, not intending to start discussion about positives and negatives of each solution... Eloise Eloise --- ...in my opinion / experience... While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing. And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism. keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out. Link to comment
Bob Stern Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 A HQPlayer (on 3.8 GHz 8-core i7 iMac 2020) > NAA (on 2012 Mac Mini i7) > RME ADI-2 v2 > Benchmark AHB-2 > Thiel 3.7 Link to comment
DavidL Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 B but with stand-alone server that is only intermittently connected to a computer. (maybe we will need to rethink the name of this forum?) David ALAC iTunes library on Synology DS412+ running MinimServer with Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 tablet running BubbleUPnP for control > Hi-Fi 1: Airport Extreme bridge > Netgear switch > TP-Link optical isolation > dCS Network Bridge AND PS Audio PerfectWave Transport > PS Audio DirectStream DAC with Bridge Mk.II > Primare A60 > Harbeth SHL5plus Anniversary Edition . Hi-Fi 2: Sonore Rendu > Chord Hugo DAC/preamp > LFD integrated > Harbeth P3ESRs and > Sennheiser HD800 Link to comment
wooster Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Has to be b). I already have the PS Audio Perfect Wave DAC and a Netgear DNLA router with connected hard drive, so I am just waiting for the PS Audio Bridge. Oh, and I'm planning to control it with an iPad (birthday coming up). Link to comment
Raym87 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Probably 'A' As I have invested enough in the system I have now so unless something comes along that blows it out of the water, or something breaks and needs replacing, then I will stay as I am. MacMini 8Gb OSX > Pure Music / Bitperfect / Amarra / iTunes > Synology DS215J NAS > Schiit Wyrd > Stello U3 > Naim Uniti Atom, Harbeth P3ESR. Meier Corda Arietta Headphone Amp > Sennhieser HD650 Phones (Cardas rewire). Isol-8 Powerline Axis. Isotek GII Orion Power Conditioner. Cardas Clear USB Cable. Tellurium Q Black Speaker Cable. All other cables by Mark Grant. Vinyl still has it's place. Technics SL1200. Modified with Mike New Bearing, KAB Strobe Disable, MCRU 2 box PSU, Isonoe Feet, SME M2-9 Tonearm > Goldring 2400 >Rothwell Simplex Phonostage. Link to comment
damien78 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 An A for now And it will be a B when 24/176.4 network player will fit in my budget (most affordable offering today is limited to 24/96) MBP 15"/Mac Mini, Audirvana Plus, Audioquest Diamond USB, AMR DP-777, exD DSD DAC (for DSD), Pioneer N-70AE, Audioquest Niagara balanced/Viard Audio Design Silver HD, Accuphase E-560, Cabasse Sumatra MT420 Link to comment
SKoo Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 b) with a preference to a Sooloos-like solution, with integrated large touch screen. What's your own opinion, and why do you care? Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Both Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Labarum Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 I don't see any solution becoming exclusive. Those with the interest and the technical know how will explore all sorts of hardware and software options to suit the own particular needs. Others will look for a plug and go consumer box. I see greater integration between audio only and full media solutions; and I wonder how the PVR (Personal Video Recorder) will feature in this. Many of these have S/PDIF as well as HDMI outputs and have Ethernet sockets with a purpose as yet undisclosed. As mass market products they will be cheap. Apple's integration policy is the true faith to some and anathema to others. Their products work well, and well together, but tie the hand of the user in unnecessary ways. Apple is expensive. I do wish there were more decent domestic active speakers with on board DACs. Brian Squeezebox Classic - Beresford Caiman-Gator DAC - Quad 520f with Dada refresh - Quart 980s German Tower Loudspeakers. Link to comment
Innisfree Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 I put in a couple thousand feet of cabling for a home network last year. My vision is that, over time, everything will be connected to it. I just bought a Sonos 5 player for my wife for the kitchen and she is happy with it. She likes a radio station in Mobile, AL on Sunday mornings and another one in San Diego sometimes. Or she streams music off my computer, also connected to the network. My vision is that in a couple years, when PS Audio has all the bugs worked out of their PWD, I will get that and connect it directly to a Bryston amp, using the balanced connections. Then I will connect my Denon receiver to the amp using the RCA connections. This integrates the home theater to the 2 channel system. And for the audio, I will download files from sites around the world, save them to the NAS and control playback from an ipad. I think the future direction is digital audio, connected and networked. Link to comment
Part-Time Audiophile Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 I think streaming content is stupid. That said, it's the future. There's simply too much upside for "the industry" to let you own your music when they have the option to make you pay-as-you-go. Scot Hull Part-Time Audiophile Link to comment
CharlyD Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 B - There are reasons why the bulk of the postings on this site are in regard to issues trying to extract the best possible music out of a general purpose computer... Link to comment
DavidL Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Eloise asked for a simple choice, not a discussion. As a discussion has now started perhaps I should explain my choice. I feel strongly that we need to decouple the computer from the listening experience as far as possible. Just look at the pages and pages on this forum of folk arguing over whether or not there is a difference in sound between AIFF, FLAC, ALAC, WAV etc. Remove the (general purpose) computer and transmit the music in standard packets from a dedicated server (ethernet or wireless) so the storage format becomes irrelevant. The only issue remaining is then how well the DAC or digital speakers can handle the data. I am not talking about streaming from the internet (although one day the bandwidth may be high enough to stream hi-res) - a computer is still necessary to get one's own music onto the server and edit meta data as required. David ALAC iTunes library on Synology DS412+ running MinimServer with Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 tablet running BubbleUPnP for control > Hi-Fi 1: Airport Extreme bridge > Netgear switch > TP-Link optical isolation > dCS Network Bridge AND PS Audio PerfectWave Transport > PS Audio DirectStream DAC with Bridge Mk.II > Primare A60 > Harbeth SHL5plus Anniversary Edition . Hi-Fi 2: Sonore Rendu > Chord Hugo DAC/preamp > LFD integrated > Harbeth P3ESRs and > Sennheiser HD800 Link to comment
Wavelength Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Eloise, I am a little bias... but I can say that two companies who offered Ethernet solutions approached me at RMAF. They both said they missed the boat with USB and wanted to talk solutions. Both said the big problem is that the UPNP/DLNA specification does not match the current offering of products. Since most of these Audio devices are renders the problem seems that the Servers and Controllers do not seem to be very compliant and therefore frustrating the customer base with problems of setup and consistent play back. I setup a little DLNA server at RMAF and we were able to get things rolling pretty quickly for PlugPlayer iPad into the Proton. But the problem was setting up the DLNA server so the PlugPlayer (render & controller) could see all the music, play lists and other meta data. For some reason and all of this music was AIFF... the damn application really could only see the high res stuff. Which was stupid since PlugPlayer errors out if it is anything other than 16/44.1 stereo. Also being a seasoned network guy... setting up the DLNA was a bit frustrating even with the instructions. In the end dumping the instructions for a few hours on their forum board helped out a bunch. But as it is with any hours before a show... this was really frustrating. Thanks Gordon J. Gordon Rankin Wavelength Audio http://www.usbdacs.com/ http://www.wavelengthaudio.com/ http://www.guitar-engines.com/ Link to comment
reverendo Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 mix of A & B I believe that people will still want to decide what DAC they prefer, so I think that the "streamer" part will be used as a transport (preferably with the player software inside it) having multiple outputs to a DAC. best regards André LDMS Minix Server>Lampizator TRP w/ VC>Gryphon Diablo>Heil Kithara Cables: Douglas Cables 'Mirage'', (Power); Douglas Cables 'Mirage' (XLR); Douglas Cables "GLIA" (speaker cables & jumper); FTA Callisto (USB) Accessories: Furutech GTX-D (G) with cover, MIT Z Duplex Super; Equitech Balanced Power, Sistrum (for Diablo & TRP) Link to comment
mwheelerk Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Most likely A. I started off using an Apple TV/DacMagic combo and now connect directly from my iMac to a Wadia PowerDAC 151. I see myself going to a dedicated computer like the Mac Mini installed in my equipment rack using and external DAC and connected via HDMI to my HDTV. I currently use iTunes but will consider another solution like PM or Amarra. ...but open to B "A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open." Frank Zappa Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Hi David - Using Ethernet instead of USB or FireWire will not remove the audiophile speculation over every other possible link in the chain (file formats etc...). Storage format issues do not change because of the connection between the computer or NAS and the DAC. For example, people often discuss possible issues with uncompressing FLAC on the fly during playback. No matter the connection or transfer mode this issue will still be relevant to many people. I'm a fan of both choice A and B in Eloise's poll. There is no panacea as each choice has its issues. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
BobH Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 In which case I shall go A. Unless it is A, in which case I shall go B. Hoping for a stand-alone box that will play whatever audio files are plugged into it. With iPad remote. Link to comment
DavidL Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Thanks Chris OK the contents of the 'packet' transmitted via ethernet or wirelessly still has to be processed by the DAC, but surely all the hardware and software issues associated with a computer that might affect sound quality have been removed. Yes there is still the issue of the translation of the packet data to the PCM or DSD format required by the DAC, but success or otherwise here should be relatively easy to evaluate. Given the power and cost of current DSP and memory chips we can reasonably hope the translation will be no problem. David ALAC iTunes library on Synology DS412+ running MinimServer with Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 tablet running BubbleUPnP for control > Hi-Fi 1: Airport Extreme bridge > Netgear switch > TP-Link optical isolation > dCS Network Bridge AND PS Audio PerfectWave Transport > PS Audio DirectStream DAC with Bridge Mk.II > Primare A60 > Harbeth SHL5plus Anniversary Edition . Hi-Fi 2: Sonore Rendu > Chord Hugo DAC/preamp > LFD integrated > Harbeth P3ESRs and > Sennheiser HD800 Link to comment
audiozorro Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 unless I find a B solution that sounds better than what I have and is not over 10 grand. Not that I'm looking - I'm happy with what I have except perhaps for pure DSD64/128 and DXD solutions. Anyway I believe that A is more conducive to custom builds and DIY mods to take anything beyond any stock solution. Link to comment
coot Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 One (2-Channel) music room. One daily intimate listening session. No "background" music piped all over the house for me. If music is worth anything to me (and it is as important as food), it deserves my full attention. Link to comment
kana813 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 B Had my Netgear WNDR3700/WD HD, PWD/Bridge and iPad/tagNPlay app up and running in less than 20 minutes. Congratulations to the PSAudio Team. Link to comment
rtrautner Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 I'm totally an A at present with no plans to move toward B, but I suspect the industry will move in that direction, pulling me and the rest of us along with it. Link to comment
cashstrapped_kel Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 A with B being a minority. NOt doscounting a DIY PC to grab/store/rip files to a NAS< though. But I have a feeling wireless or ethernet protocols will hit a ceiling soon enough if format wars and "numbers" races (eg. 32/384 - 24576 kbps) do not cease. That said, it MAY be a good thing for people like us, though. My rig is not an oil rig. I sometimes wish it was. Link to comment
ziggyzack Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 Although A will always be there, it's the easiest way to get up and running. Scot, I'm pretty sure B is about accessing music files stored at home over a home network, not over the internet. Link to comment
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