Got camera? A first-timer's trip to RMAF

[barrows]

Great meeting you, and Ted et al. Thanks for the detailed report. I love the Quads at what they do well, but they do have their limitations, same with maggies (different limitations). But at what they do well they are superb.

I do have to disagree with this though:

 

"Like the discussion and demo for Stein (seems like voodoo), LessLoss Blackbody (totally seems like voodoo) and Nordost cabling (absolute voodoo)."

 

So first you admit to not hearing the demo, then claiming things are voodoo! Next year you have to hear one of the Nordost demos (I would make a wager with you, but would not want to create "expectational bias" LOL). One switch from one of their mid level speaker cables to Odin will forever change your mind about cables. This year I heard Lars switch from Heimdall (mid price) to Odin (extreme price) speaker cables and the difference was astonishing, as if the entire system had been upgraded. No one could ignore the difference. Note, that the system in use was mid level Sim Audio Moon Series (not Evolution) electronics as well. I was surprised by the difference the Quantum power units made as well.

Nordost demos clearly show audible differences, and they are not afraid to do A/B comparisons, and now they have third party scientific measurements that show the differences.

 

[barrows]

Scott. If you are at RMAF next year, just be sure to put aside some time to listen to the Nordost demos. When I first started working for PS Audio, many years ago, I was skeptical about the level of effect that cables had. I knew that quality mattered to a point, but found it hard to accept that factors other than resistance, capacitance, and inductance were relevant. Then my first time at RMAF I heard a Nordost demo, and this changed my view of cables' importance forever. The problem with the cable industry is that there is definitely a lot of profit taking going on, and there are some high priced cables that really have nothing special to offer except fancy jacketing/audio jewelry. Nordost is an exception though-their cables are scientifically designed, and their performance backs up their design. Very little fluff either (OK, Odin has the wood blocks...) Yes, they seem to cost more than they should, but the mid level ones are not too bad (Heimdall, Frey) and offer big performance advantages over most other stuff.

Wish I had gotten to hear EAR/Marten, I really like the Marten speakers, and the EAR stuff is always good as well. I did hear a pair of Martens in one of the Audio Federations rooms, with an EMM CD/SACD player and Audio Note UK tube integrated, great sound in that room, slightly soft on the edges, but fantastic midrange and superb presence.

Back to business stuff and cable prices-I believe the audio industry is analagous to high end outdoor sporting goods (bikes, skis) where the profit margin on hardware (bikes/skis/electronics) is relatively low, and the profit margin on accessories (clothing, cables, tweaks) is relatively high. In both cases I suspect dealers make a lot of their profits from the accessory purchases-selling these is what keeps them in business and allows them to take home a paycheck. As such, most dealers are willing to "deal" on price with cabling, as the margins allow for a little more room to move.

Stein/Blackbodies-I have not tried them... and do not have the budget for expensive tweaks these days. But there is no reason to believe that they could not be effective, the science behind the Blackbody is real. Jason Serinus (of Stereophile) a reviewer whose ears I trust, swears the Steins make a significant difference in his system. Of course, Jason has Nordost Odin cabling, maybe one needs that extra resolution to get to the point where tweaks like this are significant.

 

[barrows]

Its all about time and amplitude. Frequency response measurements do not cut it, there are many speakers which sound great, that when measured in room have wide variations in frequency response. Psychoacoustics backs up the fact that humans are extremely sensitive to variations in time when it comes to sound perception, on the other hand, humans are not very sensitive to frequency variations. On to reviewers: the part of hearing that fails us as we age is only the ability to hear frequency (which is not what humans excel at anyway) not our ability to hear time-so I do not have a problem with older folks hearing, also, listening is a learned skill, which improves with practice. The differences we hear in (good) high end audio systems are mostly not related to frequency response (it is pretty easy to get this close enough to right these days) but is related to performance in the time domain.

Now, think about this:

1. All electrical signals are delayed in time

2. Signals of different amplitudes can be delayed more or less

3. Signals of different frequencies are delayed more less

So now we have a complex music signal, comprised of many different amplitudes and frequencies, each of which is being delayed by different amounts. The result is time smear, different parts of the music not arriving at the time they should be.

Conventional measuring methods (single frequency) do not measure for any of these time smear effects. The new measurement paradigm being jointly developed by Nordost, Vertex AQ (a competitor), and Gareth's military contractor team is all about measuring using real music signals, and measuring the response in the time and amplitude domains. Note here that performance in the time domain is the main design criteria for Nordost's cables, with their emphasis on speed of propogation, and attempting to make speed of propogation equal for all frequencies. Cardas' new "Clear" series of cables is also designed to address these time issues (by a very different approach).

My feeling is that time is the current frontier that high end audio is dealing with, in all categories of development (electronics, cables, speakers). The frequency domain is solved for the most part, the noise domain is also solved, but the time domain is where the improvements in performance are coming from these days.

 

[barrows]

I would ask: What is not system dependent?

 

Everything we change is system dependent, of course. I would not suggest that someone with a Bose wave radio should cut it open, add Nordost Odin cables, and Magico speakers!

I do not understand how this is a valid criticism of improving one's system by choosing better cables? No one is going to be able to put a numerical value on how much improvement a cable upgrade might bring to every system.

And certainly there are also diminishing returns: as we improve our system to a certain point, it does get more and more difficult to make significant improvements (and more expensive)-but this does not make the improvements possible any less significant.

 

"Human beings are completely unable to differentiate between discrete events that are less than 2ms apart, and a couple hundred (>500) microseconds is about as fast as any of us can go -- on the absolute best of days and in the absolute best of conditions"

 

The above stats are not relevant to what I am referring to. Take a complex music signal, and then imagine that many different elements that need to be aligned in time are shifted out of that alignment. Now what will happen is that the interaction of the different elements has fundamentally changed-ie intermodulation effects between the different elements are now also different-this is audible.

 

The measuring system being discussed is totally scientific in nature, and when they repeat the test, the results are totally repeatable (and quantifyable). The papers on this at Nordost's site are not totally clear on this, and they have advanced the techniques involved in the year since those (introductory) papers were published. One really needs to see the full presentation, and ask questions, to fully grasp what they are doing with this new measurement technique.

 

Scott, are you not using Alan Maher's products? Maybe I am mistaken in this? Little boxes filled with quartz powder or tourmaline powder placed around your system, and perhaps at your breaker box... As far as I know, Alan has no scientific background himself, or any measurements whatsoever to back up his claims for these products. I am curous why you would embrace something like these products, as your use of them would seem out of character with the point of view expressed here? I mean, at least the music signal actually travels through cables, it is easy to believe they could affect a signal travelling directly through them in comparison to some minerals sprinkled about the system? Or I am I missing something here?

 

[barrows]

Just to be clear-I have nothing against Alan's products. I have used Shakti Onlines to occasional good effects, and they use quartz as an RF damper. In fact, I am considering experimenting with some RFI damping devices of my own design, and am trying to source materials now. I am a big believer in reducing the effects of RFI on audio playback.

I really want to figure out how the Quantum boxes Nordost distributes work-I figured they were very subtle in their operation, but after hearing the demo I am very curious about them...

I hope we can meet up next year at RMAF and compare notes again!