Allo Digione Signature

[RX8R3ROD]

15 hours ago, quanghuy147 said:

 

Thank you . I looked at the link on instructables.com. Because I have know electrical background so it may look simple but I don't think I can do it. 

 

So the only option for me is Shanti. Could you share your experience between Shanti and the battery pack (without the regulator)? 

 

Hi,

 

Without trying to sound obtuse, it all depends on what we individually consider better sound is like.

 

Whilst I don’t mind better imaging, or smoother treble, or whatever, I cannot stand listening to rock, blues etc on a Hi-Fi system if it doesn’t time well. To my ears the music becomes utterly meaningless. Other people may think differently, of course. 👍🏻
 

So, for example , I consider an Astell&Kern Kann DAP with a decent set of headphones like HiFimans, sounds way better than most Hi-Fi systems I’ve heard, because the bass (and pretty-much everything else) stays consistently in time. It doesn’t sound physically ‘realistic’ in the way that some Hi-Fi system do, doesn’t image very well, nor sound especially impressive, but that doesn’t exactly bother me.

 

Hence why I have single-driver Eclipse speakers, as they time better than anything else I’ve come across, even though they don’t go very deep or loud.

 

I say all this so you know how I judge ‘better’, as we hear it a lot applied to equipment ... usually without any reference to how that’s judged. (A small note here if you read Hi-Fi reviewers ... find one who shares your musical preferences 😄)

 

I personally think the Shanti is maybe a bit better than the battery pack in the areas of smoothness, and detail, and ‘punch’ and other Hi-Fi stuff. But I don’t see it as much of a step forward in timing terms, where IME a super-regulated and super-capped battery pack is the strongest I’ve heard so far.

 

I very much doubt you’ll dislike the Shanti. If you value a bit more detail and punch (and maybe that feels like a lot more detail and punch if that’s what’s important to your own ears?), you may like it very much! 😄 And it’s not like its timing is awful or anything like that, just IME not significantly better than the straight battery pack ...

 

And it does feel like conspicuously good value when compared with many other power supplies out there ...

 

‘Hope that helps? 

 

The only other thing I’d say is building your own really is not that difficult ... but I know it can feel a bit off putting first-time round. But before you know it, you’ll be opining on the sounds of different super-caps like a pro 😄. My other half, who likes music but has no interest in Hi-Fi at all, can easily tell the difference between different super-caps and regulators 👍🏻

[quanghuy147]

58 minutes ago, RX8R3ROD said:

Hi,

 

Without trying to sound obtuse, it all depends on what we individually consider better sound is like.

 

Whilst I don’t mind better imaging, or smoother treble, or whatever, I cannot stand listening to rock, blues etc on a Hi-Fi system if it doesn’t time well. To my ears the music becomes utterly meaningless. Other people may think differently, of course. 👍🏻
 

So, for example , I consider an Astell&Kern Kann DAP with a decent set of headphones like HiFimans, sounds way better than most Hi-Fi systems I’ve heard, because the bass (and pretty-much everything else) stays consistently in time. It doesn’t sound physically ‘realistic’ in the way that some Hi-Fi system do, doesn’t image very well, nor sound especially impressive, but that doesn’t exactly bother me.

 

Hence why I have single-driver Eclipse speakers, as they time better than anything else I’ve come across, even though they don’t go very deep or loud.

 

I say all this so you know how I judge ‘better’, as we hear it a lot applied to equipment ... usually without any reference to how that’s judged. (A small note here if you read Hi-Fi reviewers ... find one who shares your musical preferences 😄)

 

I personally think the Shanti is maybe a bit better than the battery pack in the areas of smoothness, and detail, and ‘punch’ and other Hi-Fi stuff. But I don’t see it as much of a step forward in timing terms, where IME a super-regulated and super-capped battery pack is the strongest I’ve heard so far.

 

I very much doubt you’ll dislike the Shanti. If you value a bit more detail and punch (and maybe that feels like a lot more detail and punch if that’s what’s important to your own ears?), you may like it very much! 😄 And it’s not like its timing is awful or anything like that, just IME not significantly better than the straight battery pack ...

 

And it does feel like conspicuously good value when compared with many other power supplies out there ...

 

‘Hope that helps? 

 

The only other thing I’d say is building your own really is not that difficult ... but I know it can feel a bit off putting first-time round. But before you know it, you’ll be opining on the sounds of different super-caps like a pro 😄. My other half, who likes music but has no interest in Hi-Fi at all, can easily tell the difference between different super-caps and regulators 👍🏻

 

I really appreciate your explanation. It's very helpful too me. Personally I prefer the timing over smoothness and punch. It helps me to tap my toes. 

 

Just like in my Yggy Analog  1, it's exceptionally good in timing. However, after I upgraded it to Analog 2, the sound is richer, more transparent, smoother but less timing. Overall, I still like the upgrade but I much missed the timing of Analog 1. 

 

I guess I will try to read the link you sent me a gain, re-evaluate if I can do it. Timing with me is now so tempting.

 

Thank you again!

 

 

[suzywong]

10 hours ago, matthias said:

 

Did you or some audio friends compare the Cuinas vs Allo Shanti?

Thanks

 

Matt

No....I’d bought the Cuinas before the Shanti and USBridge Signature came out.

I was fortunate in that John K had sent one out on a “Grand Tour” of the UK so I could have it on loan for a few days (see Pink Fish forum for reports). I was able to compare it with various combinations of RPi Official PSU, iFi wall wart and battery packs. 

 

I was sufficiently impressed that I bought one.

[quanghuy147]

On 10/27/2019 at 10:44 PM, RX8R3ROD said:

The battery pack is quite hard to beat IME.

 

And when you regulate a battery supply along these lines https://www.instructables.com/id/Basic-5-Volt-Power-Supply/ I find timing improves, and individual instruments ‘modulate’ other instruments much less.

 

When you replace standard regulators with so-called super-regulators (Bellson are highly regarded, amongst others) and the caps with Panasonic Oscons and / or super-capacitors (low ESR gives tight bass, higher ESR gives a warmer bass, so there’s good opportunity for tuning the sound to your preference), the batteries sound even better to my ears, from a Pace, rhythm and timing perspective.

 

WHilst the Shanti is undoubtedly very good (and I have one myself), I’m not wholly sure it beats a regulated battery supply ... though it is undeniably more convenient.

After reading your answer about timing best achieved with battery pack. I forced myself to read the instructables link and think that I can do it

 

However, I need more help from you. In the link the tutorial is for 5 V and 750mA. Is this what the clean side of Signature needs?

 

Also, could you take a picture of your regulator so I can have 1 more to use as reference. I'm worried that I might connect the jumps wrong

 

Thank you. 

[RX8R3ROD]

Good call IMHO! 👍🏻
 

I’m back home on Friday so will take and post some pictures then, along with details of the regulator, etc. (It is a 5V one, but I can’t off-hand remember the current requirement...) and an easy way of keeping the batteries charged. 😄

 

 

[quanghuy147]

6 minutes ago, RX8R3ROD said:

Good call IMHO! 👍🏻
 

I’m back home on Friday so will take and post some pictures then, along with details of the regulator, etc. (It is a 5V one, but I can’t off-hand remember the current requirement...) and an easy way of keeping the batteries charged. 😄

 

 

Thank you, take your time, no rush at all!

[RX8R3ROD]

Hi, here are a few pix.

 

The complicated-looking device is a battery management charger made by Wondom. I got them from Audiophonics in France, only about 13 euro each, I think. 

 

It controls charging, battery temps, prevents overcharging, etc. and best of all it doesn’t have a cheap, nasty regulator on it that shoves a load of noise onto the DC coming out the battery.

 

‘That feeds into the regulator, via a switch.

 

For best sound quality I turn the input power supply to the Wondom off whilst playing music.

 

On the regulalator I use 10F 3v low ESR super caps in series on the regulator input, so that by using 5 or 6 you get 15/18v and 1.5-2F which gives a really good amount of fast energy storage.

 

I use an Oscon or small super cap on the output (picture shows an oscon) and WIMAs for the rest.

 

Just one thing to be aware of with the caps is that there are no standards for polarity marking. Though the super caps in the picture are nice and clear, some others I’ve tried aren’t at all clear!

 

Experimenting with different caps can tune the sound nicely. The setup in the picture gives a pretty fast, tight, sound, but that’s all down to personal taste.

 

The super-regulator with the heat sink attached is a NewClassD one, but there are others like Belleson, and they’re seemingly all pretty good ... though folks tend to have their favourites, of course.

 

As a rule, you might find trying to build it first with just some fairly basic components and then when it’s working OK add all the ‘super’ stuff might be a reasonable approach (at least I find it works 🙂 )

 

Hope that’s helpful, and do let me know if you have any questions.

[matthias]

1 hour ago, RX8R3ROD said:

Hi, here are a few pix.

 

The complicated-looking device is a battery management charger made by Wondom. I got them from Audiophonics in France, only about 13 euro each, I think. 

 

It controls charging, battery temps, prevents overcharging, etc. and best of all it doesn’t have a cheap, nasty regulator on it that shoves a load of noise onto the DC coming out the battery.

 

‘That feeds into the regulator, via a switch.

 

For best sound quality I turn the input power supply to the Wondom off whilst playing music.

 

On the regulalator I use 10F 3v low ESR super caps in series on the regulator input, so that by using 5 or 6 you get 15/18v and 1.5-2F which gives a really good amount of fast energy storage.

 

I use an Oscon or small super cap on the output (picture shows an oscon) and WIMAs for the rest.

 

Just one thing to be aware of with the caps is that there are no standards for polarity marking. Though the super caps in the picture are nice and clear, some others I’ve tried aren’t at all clear!

 

Experimenting with different caps can tune the sound nicely. The setup in the picture gives a pretty fast, tight, sound, but that’s all down to personal taste.

 

The super-regulator with the heat sink attached is a NewClassD one, but there are others like Belleson, and they’re seemingly all pretty good ... though folks tend to have their favourites, of course.

 

As a rule, you might find trying to build it first with just some fairly basic components and then when it’s working OK add all the ‘super’ stuff might be a reasonable approach (at least I find it works 🙂 )

 

Hope that’s helpful, and do let me know if you have any questions.

 

Interesting,

any comparisons vs Shanti or Ciunas SC power supplies?

Thanks

 

Matt

[RX8R3ROD]

Hi,

 

I have a Shanti.

 

it’s very good, and certainly less hassle than batteries.

 

But to my ears, in my system ( Roon, Allo (Digione Sig and Katana), modified Naim amplification and Fujitsu Ten Eclipse TD712z speakers) and for my audio preference (that PRaT is the key musical requirement beyond other HiFi ones), I’m not sure the Shanti is better.

 

Hope that helps? 😀

 

Best,

 

 Rod

[quanghuy147]

Hi RX8R3ROD, 

I will try to copy your breadboard this week. If I have any questions, I will for sure bother you here. 

 

By the way, I just check your speakers. Their designs and reviews are very impressive. I would like to ask if they produce good amount of bass? Do you have to use sub? How are they compared to other brands that you have experience? 

Thank you. 

 

 

[RX8R3ROD]

Good luck and have fun! 👍🏻
 

As to whether they produce a good amount of bass .... I think they produce a surprising amount of bass for a tiny speaker, and it’s an extremely well-timed bass. They can’t deliver the fundamentals of a pipe organ, though! 😄

 

I have tried sub-woofers, but they just weren’t fast enough to my ears to keep up, and given the choice I’d pick better-timed bass over deeper bass every time.

[quanghuy147]

On 11/5/2019 at 7:05 AM, RX8R3ROD said:

Hi, here are a few pix.

 

The complicated-looking device is a battery management charger made by Wondom. I got them from Audiophonics in France, only about 13 euro each, I think. 

 

It controls charging, battery temps, prevents overcharging, etc. and best of all it doesn’t have a cheap, nasty regulator on it that shoves a load of noise onto the DC coming out the battery.

 

‘That feeds into the regulator, via a switch.

 

For best sound quality I turn the input power supply to the Wondom off whilst playing music.

 

On the regulalator I use 10F 3v low ESR super caps in series on the regulator input, so that by using 5 or 6 you get 15/18v and 1.5-2F which gives a really good amount of fast energy storage.

 

I use an Oscon or small super cap on the output (picture shows an oscon) and WIMAs for the rest.

 

Just one thing to be aware of with the caps is that there are no standards for polarity marking. Though the super caps in the picture are nice and clear, some others I’ve tried aren’t at all clear!

 

Experimenting with different caps can tune the sound nicely. The setup in the picture gives a pretty fast, tight, sound, but that’s all down to personal taste.

 

The super-regulator with the heat sink attached is a NewClassD one, but there are others like Belleson, and they’re seemingly all pretty good ... though folks tend to have their favourites, of course.

 

As a rule, you might find trying to build it first with just some fairly basic components and then when it’s working OK add all the ‘super’ stuff might be a reasonable approach (at least I find it works 🙂 )

 

Hope that’s helpful, and do let me know if you have any questions.

 

Is this this power regulator for Katana or Allo Signature? I couldn't find the 'clean power' and 'dirty power' input as in my Allo Signature. 

 

What power do you use for the dirty side? Is it also from battery? 

 

Thank you!

[uniquesnowflake]

For fellow members who also own a USB Sig+Digione Sig combo, here are a couple mods that should be worth the effort.

 

While I applaud Allo for making the USB Sig backwards compatible with the Digione Sig, the excessive amount of adapters really bothered me. So I decided to bypass the Type-C altogether on the clean side. Also implemented is a CLC filter as recommended by cdsgames, Oscons and a CMC.

 

I really enjoy the improvement in liveliness and spatial information, though they were already very good in the first place 😁

[allo.com]

Wow...looks great

[zacho]

3 minutes ago, allo.com said:

Wow...looks great

Are you able to shed some light on the decision making with regards to USB-C vs DC Barrel connectors? I terminated my DC cables in USB-C just to fit the Digione Signature and be done with adapters, only for the USBridge Sig to come out with a Barrel connector and an internal adapter.

[allo.com]

Unfortunately we were not able to find USB C panel mount to have same connectors .

[SparkSpark]

Hello there,

I love the digione sig nature (had the previous one too), I use chargeable batteries (Can't afford a decent PSU) and it sounds great, however the Allo pack is very flimsy and occasionally can catch fire as we seen in that famous video

Can anyone recommend a slightly better batter case ideally one with a USB-C connection, what are you using?

 

Thank you!

[zacho]

On 11/25/2019 at 9:58 PM, allo.com said:

Unfortunately we were not able to find USB C panel mount to have same connectors .

 

Was there a reason why USB-C was chosen as opposed to DC Barrel connectors in the first place? It's honestly the one thing that's holding me back from getting the USBridge Sig.

 

What @uniquesnowflake did is encouraging but i've never dipped my toes in such modifications before and to be honest it is quite daunting.

[allo.com]

Hi Zacho

 

 Space. Hard to include both barrels on same board , space is at a premium .

[RX8R3ROD]

11 hours ago, SparkSpark said:

Hello there,

I love the digione sig nature (had the previous one too), I use chargeable batteries (Can't afford a decent PSU) and it sounds great, however the Allo pack is very flimsy and occasionally can catch fire as we seen in that famous video

Can anyone recommend a slightly better batter case ideally one with a USB-C connection, what are you using?

 

Thank you!

The Wondom battery management system let’s you recharge without removing the batteries, and prevents over-charging/discharging/heating etc all for about 15 euro.

 

available from lots of places, but I got mine from Audiophonics in France - speedy delivery.

[rruffin]

On 11/5/2019 at 1:24 PM, RX8R3ROD said:

Fujitsu Ten Eclipse TD712z speakers

 

Decided to check on your dedication to timing by finding out more about your speakers. Wow.

 

https://www.stereophile.com/content/fujitsu-ten-eclipse-td712z-loudspeaker

 

https://www.eclipse-td.com/uk/products/td712zmk2/index.html

 

Party on, Garth.

[rruffin]

For those using the DigiOne Signature with the new USB Bridge Signature - Is there a sonic advantage to using the DigiOne Signature Player if one is not using the USB feature?

[quanghuy147]

4 minutes ago, rruffin said:

For those using the DigiOne Signature with the new USB Bridge Signature - Is there a sonic advantage to using the DigiOne Signature Player if one is not using the USB feature?

 

What is the use of this USB Bridge Signature? I checked on Allo.com, read the description but do not really understand what it is for. 

[suzywong]

2 hours ago, rruffin said:

For those using the DigiOne Signature with the new USB Bridge Signature - Is there a sonic advantage to using the DigiOne Signature Player if one is not using the USB feature?

 

In my system, yes.

[RX8R3ROD]

3 hours ago, rruffin said:

 

Decided to check on your dedication to timing by finding out more about your speakers. Wow.

 

https://www.stereophile.com/content/fujitsu-ten-eclipse-td712z-loudspeaker

 

https://www.eclipse-td.com/uk/products/td712zmk2/index.html

 

Party on, Garth.

Cheers!

 

To me they sound kind of like I imagine a rather higher-tech Linn Kan would have ... with both the good and bad points of the original. But, in this case, always active 😄