Allo Digione Signature

[Marco78]

has anybody compared the Digione Signature to the Auralic G1?   if I remember correctly, Darko says the Signature betters the Auralic Aries Femto but refrains to compare it to the new G1 streamer (which got me thinking if such omission was due to the gap in sound quality being maybe too narrow between the two devices)

[Spenagio]

I am getting a worryingly loud 'crackle' from my speakers when changing tracks sometimes in Roon. I think it may be when changing from one bit depth/format to another.

 

Anyone experienced anything similar? Concerned I may damage my speakers...

 

I have not had this issue when using my previous pi/kali streamer.

 

I’m not incredibly technically minded, but I do know I get a similar kind of sound if I switch off my pre/power in the wrong order, so assume something is not protecting/grounding somewhere? 

Should I need to earth the two power supplies of the DS? Assuming the Allo PS I am using on the dirty input is earthed, would it be the battery pack powering the clean side that is the problem?

 

[wanta911]

18 hours ago, Spenagio said:

Have you had chance to compare this relatively cheap LPS against any of your others? Thinking of ordering if it is likely to outperform the batteries I am currently using. I am in the UK, going to check if they will ship here.

 

I'm actually a little stunned by how good this power supply is. This Studer 900 design has a bit of a cult following it seems and there is quite a bit of talk about it, particularly on the DIY Audio sites. This includes some hypothesizing on trying to work out why it does such a good job. The board only sells for the princely sum of around 18 bucks. Maybe @ClothEars can shed some more light on it, it was his recommendation that got me on to it and because I'm stupid, I can't find some of the links he put up.

 

As to how it sounds with my Chord Qutest.....clarity and punch are all improved compared to my other 5V power supplies - it's so clean and removes a little bit of haziness that I didn't even know I had. It just sounds so focused, I'm particularly impressed with drums/kick drums and percussion in general, it hits so much harder. The bass is nice and tight without getting dry or losing too much extension. So in my setup it is a (big) winner!

 

Anyway for the minimal outlay it is well worth trying. 

 

Take a look at this:

 

[01svtL]

@wanta911 did you go with the 12V/2.5A version, or did you request something different?

[wanta911]

I went with the 5V version which is a selectable option. If this supplier doesn't have any available just search for "Studer900" on Aliexpress and use another supplier. I get the impression that a lot of these power supplies come from a central source and go through re-sellers. 

[rruffin]

16 hours ago, Spenagio said:

I am getting a worryingly loud 'crackle' from my speakers when changing tracks sometimes in Roon. I think it may be when changing from one bit depth/format to another.

 

Anyone experienced anything similar? Concerned I may damage my speakers...

 

I have not had this issue when using my previous pi/kali streamer.

 

I’m not incredibly technically minded, but I do know I get a similar kind of sound if I switch off my pre/power in the wrong order, so assume something is not protecting/grounding somewhere? 

Should I need to earth the two power supplies of the DS? Assuming the Allo PS I am using on the dirty input is earthed, would it be the battery pack powering the clean side that is the problem?

 

 

Yes, this has been my experience, as well. I call it a "hobbyist" phenomena as it does not usually happen with polished consumer products. ((I often am, even with my limited technical abilities, striving for the cutting edge to get better sound with my system.) 

 

I fried my Signature a few weeks ago by mixing up the power supplies. While waiting for a replacement, I used my original DigiOne for about three weeks. The unit sounded great - very similar to the Signature except it did not have the depth of image and other higher level refinements. However, the other thing that I noticed was that I never had the "crackle" experience - my dac never lost the connection with the DigiOne when the format changed. As soon as I installed the Signature back in the system, the music was much more enjoyable, but I was reminded of the "hobbyist" nature of my system. (Read: "crackle".) I will continue to tweak the system (different OS and PS) and expect to overcome this.

 

As a side note, there is a Moderator named John over at The Audio Standard who has given up on the Signature for this reason. He acknowledges the wonderfulness of the sound, but cannot deal with his dac loosing its connection and the resulting "crackle" (or worse). If I find the John thread, I will post it later.

 

Anyone else...?

[Spenagio]

Really helpful to know I'm not the only one!

 

Have to admit, having had an afternoon of (proper) listening I am very impressed with the DS. As you state, without going into hifi speak, it makes for a very musical, enjoyable experience. I stop doing that annoying thing of listening to the system, waiting for clues as to what is right and wrong, and just enjoy the track that is playing.

 

So, I will stick with it, hopefully someone will solve the issue and report, I will try power variations too.

 

I am pretty sure that it only occurs when swapping samples rates, so I can avoid it for the most part. Inconvenient yes, but worth the trouble, also a yes!

[Spenagio]

16 hours ago, wanta911 said:

 

I'm actually a little stunned by how good this power supply is. This Studer 900 design has a bit of a cult following it seems and there is quite a bit of talk about it, particularly on the DIY Audio sites. This includes some hypothesizing on trying to work out why it does such a good job. The board only sells for the princely sum of around 18 bucks. Maybe @ClothEars can shed some more light on it, it was his recommendation that got me on to it and because I'm stupid, I can't find some of the links he put up.

 

As to how it sounds with my Chord Qutest.....clarity and punch are all improved compared to my other 5V power supplies - it's so clean and removes a little bit of haziness that I didn't even know I had. It just sounds so focused, I'm particularly impressed with drums/kick drums and percussion in general, it hits so much harder. The bass is nice and tight without getting dry or losing too much extension. So in my setup it is a (big) winner!

 

Anyway for the minimal outlay it is well worth trying. 

 

Take a look at this:

 

Prepare to call me a muppet, but just looked at ordering from one of the other suppliers, and from the images the fully assembled units look different to the one no longer available. Smaller/more caps, and a different transformer I think?! Others might be able to educate me. The out of stock one seems to have the same single cap as the kit version and refers to an output tube.

Dont want to order an inferior unit by accident.

 

Also, the 24v PS to my Rega P6 turntable has just died (unreliable British Hifi 😉), wondering if I could use a 24v one of these as an upgrade. MCRU sell one for £400 to go with my TT😳

[dmormerod]

3 hours ago, Spenagio said:

Prepare to call me a muppet, but just looked at ordering from one of the other suppliers, and from the images the fully assembled units look different to the one no longer available. Smaller/more caps, and a different transformer I think?! Others might be able to educate me. The out of stock one seems to have the same single cap as the kit version and refers to an output tube.

Dont want to order an inferior unit by accident.

 

Also, the 24v PS to my Rega P6 turntable has just died (unreliable British Hifi 😉), wondering if I could use a 24v one of these as an upgrade. MCRU sell one for £400 to go with my TT😳

I have the same question which I asked in another thread because as you say the pics look different for the ones now available. So maybe we’re both muppets!

[ClothEars]

4 hours ago, Spenagio said:

Prepare to call me a muppet, but just looked at ordering from one of the other suppliers, and from the images the fully assembled units look different to the one no longer available. Smaller/more caps, and a different transformer I think?! Others might be able to educate me. The out of stock one seems to have the same single cap as the kit version and refers to an output tube.

Dont want to order an inferior unit by accident.

 

Also, the 24v PS to my Rega P6 turntable has just died (unreliable British Hifi 😉), wondering if I could use a 24v one of these as an upgrade. MCRU sell one for £400 to go with my TT😳

 

The layout is slightly different and it appears that instead of one 6800uF cap they have used 5 smaller ones in parallel.  Not really an issue as the fundamental circuit appears to be the same.  Whilst the units are available for 24V I believe they would be only rated at 1A or less which may not be enough grunt for your Rega P6.

 

An alternative that is cheap and performs very well with 2.1A output at 24V is available here. 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ZEROZONE-Finished-65VA-Ultra-Low-Noise-linear-Power-supply-5V-9V-12V-15V-18V-etc-/322429316074

I have been using one with great success for some time now.

[Emcee]

8 hours ago, rruffin said:

 

 

I fried my Signature a few weeks ago by mixing up the power supplies.

Could you please explain how you fried your unit? I'm waiting for power cables to arrive before I can connect mine. It seems straightforward enough. Isn't it two 5V power supplies, one powers the Signature and the other powers the Raspberry. I'm currently powering my base model DigiOne with two separate 5V power supplies.

[rruffin]

Yep. I was using a bank of 4 batteries (18650) to power the clean side and the Allo 5v power supply to power the dirty side. Unfortunately, I connected the batteries to the dirty side and poof. I have now color coded the connectors (green is clean) and hope to not do it again.

[rruffin]

Is anyone else using Audirvana software on a Mac as a Network player using UPnP protocol to send music files to the DigiOne (Signature)?

[InfinitelyBaffled]

For those of you that switched to battery power for the clean side - is there a specific song or album that you have found to really demonstrate the differences when using batteries? I'd like to know..

 

I put together a simple and inexpensive battery pack (4 AA's in series - 5.5v/2500 mAh) and have been going back and forth listening from my battery pack to my Twisted Pear power supply, and I am struggling to hear any improvement in the sound with the batteries. The Twisted Pear power supply has so much power reserve with the giant smoothing capacitor, I just think I am at the peak of performance from a power supply. But I'm not giving up yet - I'd be glad to A/B test some more samples before giving up on batteries if you guys have some good suggestions.

[Tintinabulum]

Are you saying that AA batteries are as good as the TP PS? That's something surely? My (very limited) understanding is that it is the type of batteries (Lifepo4) that makes the difference, being about the ability to deliver power in a particular way which other batteries cannot. 

[Tintinabulum]

13 hours ago, Emcee said:

Could you please explain how you fried your unit? 

I think two batteries in series, 3.6V each, 7.2V is too much for the clean side presumably.

[RX8R3ROD]

4 hours ago, InfinitelyBaffled said:

For those of you that switched to battery power for the clean side - is there a specific song or album that you have found to really demonstrate the differences when using batteries? I'd like to know..

 

I put together a simple and inexpensive battery pack (4 AA's in series - 5.5v/2500 mAh) and have been going back and forth listening from my battery pack to my Twisted Pear power supply, and I am struggling to hear any improvement in the sound with the batteries. The Twisted Pear power supply has so much power reserve with the giant smoothing capacitor, I just think I am at the peak of performance from a power supply. But I'm not giving up yet - I'd be glad to A/B test some more samples before giving up on batteries if you guys have some good suggestions.

If you want to experience (at least in my experience 😁) what batteries are really capable of you should try 18650’s )instead of AA’s) into Supercaps followed by a superreg.

 

This IME is a very significant improvement on just 18650’s, which are themselves a significant step up from AA cells.

 

I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised... 😉 and you’ll hear it on everything 👍

[dmormerod]

On 1/22/2019 at 8:34 AM, RX8R3ROD said:

 

Everyone to their own preferences, and what sounds great to some people doesn’t necessarily to others, etc ...

 

Buuuut batteries, especially IME if combined with Supercaps and a Superreg, can be awfully difficult - some would say almost impossible - to beat. (Obviously, some people will say otherwise, too)

 

Adding one of these 

 

tps://www.audiophonics.fr/en/power-supply-kits/wondom-bcpb2-battery-bms-power-supply-charger-module-lithium-18650-with-protections-p-13079.html

 

neatly gets around most of the hassles of 18650 batteries.

 

Just a thought FWIW 😁

 

I just realized, won't this supply 12v dc which is too high for the clean side?  I understand 9v is the max recommended for the clean side.

[RX8R3ROD]

Yes, you need to follow it with a simple voltage regulator, like the one shown here.

 

https://www.instructables.com/id/Basic-5-Volt-Power-Supply/

 

This will sound really good, replacing the capacitors they show with Panasonic OSCONs and WIMA film capacitors for the small ones will make it better still, and only cost you 5 or 6 quid.

 

Adding some Supercaps in place of the big input capacitor (say 12 or 15v, 1 or 2F) will make it sound even better. (£10 to £20)

 

All of this is available from Farnell or RS Components.

 

And replacing the 7805 regulator with something like a New Class D 5v regulator or a Belleson 5v (£40 ish) will make it better still.

 

Some folks recommend the LT3042 or LT3045. I’m not so keen personally, but at £10 or less you might find they’re just the ticket?

 

Hope that helps 😁

[InfinitelyBaffled]

1 hour ago, RX8R3ROD said:

If you want to experience (at least in my experience 😁) what batteries are really capable of you should try 18650’s )instead of AA’s) into Supercaps followed by a superreg.

 

This IME is a very significant improvement on just 18650’s, which are themselves a significant step up from AA cells.

 

I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised... 😉 and you’ll hear it on everything 👍

 

RX8R3ROD - do you have a schematic for this power supply?

 

With all due respect, I have a hard time believing that differences in power storage could make that big of a difference in sound quality. If you are supplying the clean side with adequate voltage and ample current, with sufficient CLEAN power reserves, I don't see how the sound could be different.

I'd like to study your supercap/superreg solution.  ( I could not find details in the earlier comments in this thread.)

 

***UPDATE*** - I just saw what you posted immediately before this post - I'll check it out.

[dmormerod]

12 minutes ago, RX8R3ROD said:

Yes, you need to follow it with a simple voltage regulator, like the one shown here.

 

https://www.instructables.com/id/Basic-5-Volt-Power-Supply/

 

This will sound really good, replacing the capacitors they show with Panasonic OSCONs and WIMA film capacitors for the small ones will make it better still, and only cost you 5 or 6 quid.

 

Adding some Supercaps in place of the big input capacitor (say 12 or 15v, 1 or 2F) will make it sound even better. (£10 to £20)

 

All of this is available from Farnell or RS Components.

 

And replacing the 7805 regulator with something like a New Class D 5v regulator or a Belleson 5v (£40 ish) will make it better still.

 

Some folks recommend the LT3042 or LT3045. I’m not so keen personally, but at £10 or less you might find they’re just the ticket?

 

Hope that helps 😁

 

Yep, that helps a lot, although I'm in the US so alas no Farnell or RS  I've ordered an equivalent item from Amazon, along with a bunch of other stuff to see if I can make something reasonable :

 

 

I already have a GX16-2 to USB-C cable on it's way from Ghent, hence the GX connectors. So I just need a regulator to drop the 12v output and should be good. I guess it will go one of 2 ways, a puff of smoke or musical bliss!

[InfinitelyBaffled]

48 minutes ago, RX8R3ROD said:

Yes, you need to follow it with a simple voltage regulator, like the one shown here.

 

https://www.instructables.com/id/Basic-5-Volt-Power-Supply/

 

This will sound really good, replacing the capacitors they show with Panasonic OSCONs and WIMA film capacitors for the small ones will make it better still, and only cost you 5 or 6 quid.

 

Adding some Supercaps in place of the big input capacitor (say 12 or 15v, 1 or 2F) will make it sound even better. (£10 to £20)

 

All of this is available from Farnell or RS Components.

 

And replacing the 7805 regulator with something like a New Class D 5v regulator or a Belleson 5v (£40 ish) will make it better still.

 

Some folks recommend the LT3042 or LT3045. I’m not so keen personally, but at £10 or less you might find they’re just the ticket?

 

Hope that helps 😁

 

The Twisted Pear Centaur has a Nichicon 15000uf/50V input capacitor, a LM350T regulator (fixed at 5v with a 1% metal film resistor rather than a trimmer) and a Panasonic 2200uf/25V output cap. A 9v toroidal transformer supplies the AC side and the unit generates 2.5A at exactly 5v. Not really sure how I could improve on this. How could LifePo4 cells and a supercap on the input side supply power any faster? Regs are the same except for variable voltage selection capability. Seems to me that 15000uf of power waiting behind that LM350T would not create any kind of power supply lag. Now maybe replacing the output cap with a supercap of equivalent size......

 

Also, directly supplying 5.5v/2000mAh from batteries in series seems hard to beat as well, regardless of battery topology, as long as more than ample current is there waiting....

 

I have no doubt you hear wonderful things from your setup - I just think I am probably at a point of diminishing returns.  Now I did pick up a set of 4 LifePo4 Double AA's for $10 while I was purchasing the cheap little AA battery holder. I may modify it to run parallel/series to get 6.4v 800mAh and try those in my battery holder. Maybe those LifePo4 AA's will supply current faster than the traditional Alkaline AA's. I would think direct power via batteries in any case would be faster than a regulator setup in between the batteries and the clean power input.

 

At the end of the day, I think many of us are hearing great things with these custom (and cost effective) power supplies! 😊

[RX8R3ROD]

All I can say from my experience is it’s well worth experimenting, and it’s safest to assume little or nothing.

 

You may find that all the caps or Supercaps you try sound different and some suit you far better than others, and regulators sound different too, and some of these suit your tastes far more than others.

 

My wife can reliably tell the differences with these, and she absolutely makes no claims to golden ears 😁

 

The lipo batteries probably sound different, too, though glad to report I’ve not tried comparing 😀

 

But the main thing is to have fun, and enjoy! 👍

[RX8R3ROD]

58 minutes ago, dmormerod said:

 

Yep, that helps a lot, although I'm in the US so alas no Farnell or RS  I've ordered an equivalent item from Amazon, along with a bunch of other stuff to see if I can make something reasonable :

 

 

I already have a GX16-2 to USB-C cable on it's way from Ghent, hence the GX connectors. So I just need a regulator to drop the 12v output and should be good. I guess it will go one of 2 ways, a puff of smoke or musical bliss!

My apologies on that! 

 

It looks like you’ve got a really nice treasure-trove of goodies arriving. 👍

 

I’m pretty sure Dr.J got a NewClassD superregulator direct in the US, and the Belleson ones are made in the US, so I’m sure you’ll have plenty of good choices on regs! 😀 And of course if you’re building on a breadboard you can always buy a low-cost standard 7805 first and swap it for a superreg later.

 

I have fried a few Supercaps when being a bit lazy pre-Wondom, but that has short-circuit protection, etc built in so IMHO chances of musical bliss are high, and puffs of smoke low!

 

But if you think I can be of any help in trying to avoid puffs of smoke, do say (no smoke signals 😁).

 

And good luck!! 

 

 

[Gustav9]

I have been happily using my DigiOne Signature using the latest version of Moode Player. I now want to use the Raspberry Pi as a Roon  endpoint. I have tried several times to install the Roon Bridge software using RoPieee on a new SD card  , but I cannot get this to work. What am I doing wrong? When loading RoPiee should I power the Pi from its own micro USB socket or should I use the two power sockets on the Allo DigiOne Sigature?