Allo Digione Signature

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On 8/26/2018 at 2:28 PM, sihctr said:

I was planning to buy the Digione soon, but this changes my plans a bit...

I have a question to Allo: Compared to the standard Digione, should I expect an improvement in the sound if I use two simple 5V SPMS for now? Getting a good power supply for the clear side is something that requires a bit of research, so it will take me some time to get there...

Also, using a battery is not very practical due to the need for restarts, as the rest of the family should be able to use it without much fiddling. 

 

For the sake of completeness, I am currently using a hifiberry+volumio.

PS: the two power supply plugs are USB-C, right?

Yes Digione Sig will work with 2 standard PSUs and it should have an improvement over Digione

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On 8/26/2018 at 8:18 PM, Cortes said:

Price of  Digione Signature Player   is above Eitr,  similar to Singxer su-1 and   Matrix x-spdif 2. 

It has much less functionality than the latter two as per outputs, although it's a streamer which can be a benefit for some people. 

 

Thus, as digital converter to Spdif ,I hope Allo gives us good  reasons (measures) to opt for this instead of established products in the market, as the ones mentioned above. 

 

 

DigiOne signature will be independently measured by Amir at audiosciencereview . We think we have the best jitter measurements.Compared with ANY hardware from any manufacturer.

[allo.com]

Hi John

 

  yes you need to power both USB type C inputs. 12V might be a bit too much , (might heat) can you try anything else ?

 

Dirty side needs same PSU as Digione player. Clean side, try LPS , IFI even Allo 5V smps.

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8 minutes ago, Johnjc said:

I could get a 12v to 5v converter for the battery to power the pi I add another one for the dirty side Or even the SMPS

I then use a 5v from my supercaped LPS to power the clean side 

I presume dirty side on input is left USB c and clean USB c on the right hand side?

 

Clean side is the output side (so the one closer to BNC and RCA output).

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8 minutes ago, Johnjc said:

So both USB C inputs 5v being supplied to them 

Yes. Clean side accept more than 5V but for heating pourposes better to stay under 9V

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6 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Does the DIgiSig player come with the new RPI3B+ ?

Thanks

 

Matt

Yes latest RPI3B+

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10 hours ago, matthias said:

 

I think the best will be a 6,4V LiFePO4 battery.

 

Matt

Thats what I am using.

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Its a cheap SMPS , we don't have any exact measuring , but from what I remember its not so bad. About 2.8mV noise ripple at 2A

[allo.com]

Hi Stelko

 

 you need to respect the current specs of DigiOne Sig. Dirty side needs 2.5A. LT3042 from the link you provided shows a max of 1A

 

Furthermore.. the dirty side does not care much whats feed to it. I would recommend a cheaper SMPS for dirty side and a battery like you have (7V is fine) for the clean side.

[allo.com]

Yes , DigiOne Sig has 2 diodes and we decided that one will be removed. (it works with both but voltage drop is lower with 1 diode only that you can find on second board)

 

 

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12 minutes ago, steklo said:

Hi,

 

you're right the manual says: "It needs 2 PSUs, one for 5V/2A-3A (RPI) and a second CLEAN power that can be (5V to 6V) 100mA." But the demand for 2-3A is probably not because the dirty side of Digione takes so much, this is probably because the specs of RPi say so. Actually the power consumption of an RPi that only acts as a streamer and which is free from further tasks (musicserver, upsampling, converting file formats) is below 500 mA. Thus 1A should be enough – unless you say the dirty side of Digione signature alone needs more?

Anyway it would be really nice if the soundquality of Digione signature would be completely independent from the way RPi is fed. Have you tried different PSUs with the RPi in conjunction with Digione signature to find a cheap SMPS is enough for the dirty side because it makes no difference?

 

Best regards

Stefan

Hi Stefan , yes dirty side requiements are only for RPI (wm 8805 takes about 50ma on top)  However power consumption is dependent on what model of RPI you have , the latest RPI3B+ (that comes with our player) needs about 2.2A on boot for short periods of time. Of course you can tweak the RPI and get much lower than that...but we advise to have a good PSU with 2.5A. Our PSU (allo website) that comes with the player is perfect for it.

[allo.com]

Dirty side is galvanically isolated from clean side . No need for the IFI

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1 hour ago, steklo said:

Isn't "Nirvana" the upcoming super SMPS made by Allo? ;-)))

Nirvana is not ready yet.

[allo.com]

yes thats correct

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Its a very hard question to answer. Galvanic isolation is one thing , but DC/DC convertor on board of digione is a 2$ component that its inherently noisy.

 

  Of course a very good PSU will beat a 2$ part and furthermore on Digione signature we implemented a cascading network of LDOs (series) + different bypass caps (film) that make the Sig..better.

 

 

[allo.com]

Yes thats correct and I still say it . A better PU on DigiOne HAS to pass through the DC/DC convertor and thus it nullifies whatever clean PSU was used. Yes we used heavy filtering on DC convertor

 

  DigiIOne Sig was implemented using diffrent power supply and as such its a different design and PSU to clean side will have an impact on the sound.

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49 minutes ago, Ampega said:

 

This is not what you said so far regarding Digione. I always read from you "a better PSU would have no effect on Digione". Now you tell us a different story. Not nice .......

I did not say anything different Ampega . DigiOne has a DC/DC convertor on board and as such is pretty immune to the quality of the PSU used (since noise of DC/DC convertor is dominant)

 

  DigiOne Sig is designed differently and as such PSU on clean side has a direct influence on sound

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10 minutes ago, olklei said:

Does this mean that a somehow noisy psu on the clean side of the signature will make it sound worse than the digione with the same psu passed through digione's dc/dc converter?

If that's true the signature would sound better, equal or worse compared to the digione depending on the psu used.

For now I'll try a 7.4v battery for the clean side then but will try the nirvana psu when it comes to life. 

Even a noise PSU has about the same. less noise that a DC/DC convertor has (the part that we are using on DigiOne).

 

  That coupled with the fact that filtering has been beefed up on DigiOne signature... I would think that DigiOne signature will sound slightly better with noisy PSU on clean side

[allo.com]

58 minutes ago, RX8R3ROD said:

 

 

Always use 2 PSUs since  otherwise you will make a ground connection defeating the galvanic isolation

 

[allo.com]

Hi

 

  you can run 7.4V direct into clean side of Sig

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11 hours ago, olklei said:

When I power my Sig via the USB-C connector (rpi)  with the standard Allo 5V psu I get permanent undervoltage errors.
 

[Wed Sep  5 21:09:19 2018] Voltage normalised (0x00000000)
[Wed Sep  5 21:09:21 2018] Under-voltage detected! (0x00050005)
[Wed Sep  5 21:09:55 2018] Voltage normalised (0x00000000)
[Wed Sep  5 21:09:57 2018] Under-voltage detected! (0x00050005)
[Wed Sep  5 21:10:55 2018] Voltage normalised (0x00000000)
[Wed Sep  5 21:13:43 2018] Under-voltage detected! (0x00050005)
[Wed Sep  5 21:25:39 2018] Voltage normalised (0x00000000)
[Wed Sep  5 21:25:51 2018] Under-voltage detected! (0x00050005)
[Wed Sep  5 21:25:55 2018] Voltage normalised (0x00000000)
[Wed Sep  5 21:26:37 2018] Under-voltage detected! (0x00050005)
[Wed Sep  5 21:26:41 2018] Voltage normalised (0x00000000)

When I power the rpi via its µusb the under-voltage disappears but it can't find the wm8804 anymore.
Anything else I can try?

Hi

 

 please PM your order number and I will arrange for an exchange. Not normal to have the undervoltage

[allo.com]

11 hours ago, olklei said:

When I power my Sig via the USB-C connector (rpi)  with the standard Allo 5V psu I get permanent undervoltage errors.
 

[Wed Sep  5 21:09:19 2018] Voltage normalised (0x00000000)
[Wed Sep  5 21:09:21 2018] Under-voltage detected! (0x00050005)
[Wed Sep  5 21:09:55 2018] Voltage normalised (0x00000000)
[Wed Sep  5 21:09:57 2018] Under-voltage detected! (0x00050005)
[Wed Sep  5 21:10:55 2018] Voltage normalised (0x00000000)
[Wed Sep  5 21:13:43 2018] Under-voltage detected! (0x00050005)
[Wed Sep  5 21:25:39 2018] Voltage normalised (0x00000000)
[Wed Sep  5 21:25:51 2018] Under-voltage detected! (0x00050005)
[Wed Sep  5 21:25:55 2018] Voltage normalised (0x00000000)
[Wed Sep  5 21:26:37 2018] Under-voltage detected! (0x00050005)
[Wed Sep  5 21:26:41 2018] Voltage normalised (0x00000000)

When I power the rpi via its µusb the under-voltage disappears but it can't find the wm8804 anymore.
Anything else I can try?

Quick fix so you can listen to music while we ship a replacement asap. Feed RPi uUSB AND dirty side type C usb (clean side keep on feeding the batteries) . All inputs are protected by diodes so you can feed it 3 ways as well. This will get rid of the undervoltage but we will still ship you a new unit. Please PM me

[allo.com]

I have alerted CS. You will get an update asap.

 

 Battery power in at 7.4V is  very good . Enjoy your Sig and let us know what are your hear..

 

PS. You can feed 3 PSU to SIg on every unit. We don't recommended it since its complicated and power to Wm8805 (old dirty side)/clean side has to be in same time (or before) RPI but if you know what you do...

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13 hours ago, Luke38 said:

Does Sig work with Rpi2 B and Tinker board?

We never tested the Thinker board. Will do so in the future. Yes it works with RPI2B

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That statement refers to analog output. Signature is a digital output with super cap about 2cm away from output and plenty of decoupling capacitance.

 

 As such , I think the most important things are common mode noise and differential noise input in the Sig.