Lush^2 - Share your configuration experiences

[BigAlMc]

Hi Peter,

 

I'll be glad to share my experience and impressions when my Lush^2 arrive.

 

As you know I ordered two 70cm Lush^2. This is because I'm trying (hoping ) to beat one or both of the following:

 

Current Lush feeding my TX-USBUltra

&

Sablon Reserva feeding my DAC

 

Given the performance and rave reviews the Sablon gets I'm particularly intrigued in how the Lush^2 compares to that.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[BigAlMc]

After a one week adventure/ordeal involving UPS delivering to my previous address, the concierge there and a dim-witted estate agent that took it upon himself to place the package in an unoccupied apartment (seriously WTF!!) I finally have in my possession two 70cm Lush^2 cables ?

 

Thanks to Peter for all his help battling with UPS (who lied and signed for the delivery on behalf of the concierge at my previous apartment despite having dumped it in the hallway ?). Great service there Peter and appreciated.

 

Anyway early days but 30 mins ago I replaced the Sablon going from TX-USBUltra to my DAC. First impressions are positive and the immediate thought was the soundstage sounded more 3D. I guess this is what others are referring to as better separation of instruments etc.

 

I then replaced the Lush original going from my Zenith SE into the TX-USBUltra. Can't say I noticed much of a change here. Certainly nothing like the first one.

 

Will let them burn-in for a couple days and hopefully do some critical listening and testing at the weekend.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[BigAlMc]

Ok after a mighty 6 hours burn in - Peter what have you done to my system?! It sounds all muddled and all over the place. Is this the normal burn in experience?

 

I have both configured as the All In Serial Mode option for burn in purposes.

 

Its hard to describe but the soundstage is big but the instruments are drunk and bumping into each other!

 

I'll assume burn in as was VERY promising out of the box.

 

Peter - probably an impossible question but for the Lush gluttony prone like myself with two in a chain (in and out of a USB reclocker) any thoughts on whether having both cables configured the same theoretically beats having two different configs?

 

Thanks,

Alan

[BigAlMc]

On 8/27/2018 at 4:12 PM, yellowblue said:

I got curious and tried your third configuration and started with it (after 80 hours burn in). You should call it "the music is everywhere". This is pretty crazy! I listen with my Utopia headphones and the soundstage grew enormously, especially the height of the soundstage (which I always found the Utopias weakness). I needed half an hour to get used to it but I like it very much. Is it a realistic soundstage? I don´t know yet. I have to evaluate more. But this is really fun.

 

Hey @yellowblue

 

By third do you mean Only Outer to A on the spec sheet?

 

And have you settled on this or another config?

 

Call me lazy (cause, you know, I'm lazy!) but I kinda just want someone to tell me the best config. Can see the old nervosa driving me batshit otherwise ?

 

Cheers,

Alan

[BigAlMc]

2 hours ago, yellowblue said:

@BigAlMc it was this configuration 

A: B-W-Y-R, B: B-W

Connector A: Black Connected to White Connected to Yellow connected to Red (all shields connect to the connector)

 

2 hours ago, yellowblue said:

After 10 hours the Lush^2 sounded worse for me than with 0 hours, but things will begin to change after 20 hours.

 

Thanks mate. Both of those reassure me.

 

I'll leave it to burn in for a couple days and then play around with the next config.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[BigAlMc]

15 hours ago, yellowblue said:

Here is the picture (always easier to understand)

 

 

Impatience got the better of me and I've ditched optimal burn-in in favour of optimal (hopefully!) set-up.

 

The SQ was less muddled already but still odd.

 

I implemented this config on both cables and resumed play. There's still a bit of muddle / smear - dunno what to call it. There's something odd going on with the bass. But there is just something very compelling about the soundstage. Will let it play for a few days and then see how it compares to the Sablon & Lush original. 

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

[BigAlMc]

Hi Peter,

 

What config do you think is the best so far?

 

I was just aware of the posts saying the All Serial wasn't great so figured why stay on it. I'm working from home today so will have music playing all day when I'm not on the phone. Figured I may as well test the suggestion kindly provided by @yellowblue.

 

It's definitely an improvement.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[BigAlMc]

1 hour ago, PeterSt said:

Then yesterday came. Long before the playback session of the evening I had already written down a new A: A: B-Y & W-R, B: B-Y & W-R. And with this, I forced nyself to find configs "with reason"

 

Hi Peter,

 

Any chance of a picture?

 

Thanks,

Alan

[BigAlMc]

4 hours ago, PeterSt said:

 

Hi Alan - no time for a picture (must rush); At both ends of the cable, of the 6 pin connector, put the pair like B-Y on the first two pins and W-R on the 5th and 6th pin (the last two pins).

You can put the jumper in the middle for protecting pin 3 & 4 from "shortcutting" to anything (but the connection the jumper will make does nothing).

 

Kind regards,

Peter

 

 

Thanks Peter,

 

I'll give it a go.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[BigAlMc]

So I spent some time this morning doing some critical listening and tried to compare the Sablon to the Lush^2.

 

For those not familiar with the Sablon there are threads on CA and WBF where users gush over how amazing it is. It's VERY good and it displaced the highly acclaimed Curious cable in my system. 

 

I lined up a few trusty tracks on Roon and played up to 60 seconds before swapping the cables, the Lush^2 and the Sablon, and then playing the same 60 seconds of the track.

 

The obvious question is which is better? Well, I honestly don't know that I could say one is 'better'. They are definitely very different but I suspect some folks would prefer one and others would prefer the other.

 

The Sablon is very analytical and very accurate. There's a great sense of control.

 

The Lush^2 is slightly grainier and has slightly more life where the Sablon was more analytical. Slightly more texture but perhaps at the loss of some of the accuracy the Sablon conveyed. 

 

BUT. It then dawned me that my methodology was totally flawed. ?

 

My setup has two USB cables. One from Server to TX-USBUltra, and one from TX-USBUltra to DAC. I was swapping the last cable from TX-USBUltra to DAC for comparison purposes. But that meant I still had a Lush^2 is the chain from Server to TX-USBUltra. Therefore how could I reasonable compare the Sablon to the Lush when there was still Lushness in the chain.

 

So I fished the Curious cable out of the storage box of odds and ends and replaced the Lush^2 between Server and DAC. This was done solely so that I could compare the Lush^2 and the Sablon without any upstream Lush contribution but whoaa! I wasn't expecting such a significant change.

 

The Curious has a reputation for having a large soundstage that I've heard described as forward to the point of being brash. The Curious into the TX-USBUltra with it's large brash soundstage and the Lush^2 going into the DAC with it's better bass, separation of instruments/voices and more 3D soundstage is something special (in my system at least!).

 

I repeated the listening tests with swapping the Lush^2 and the Sablon with similar but more obvious results. The Sablon very clear and very analytical. The Lush^2 just more musical and more compelling to my ears anyway.

 

I tried putting the Sablon between the Server and TX-USBUltra with the Lush^2 then into the DAC. This sounded very good but there was a crackling sound that occurred on two separate tracks that I know as well recorded. Like the static on a record player. I swapped the Curious back in and the crackling stopped and it sounded great again.

 

I then asked my girlfriend for her second opinion because whilst she could not care less about cables she does have good ears. I played the Lush^2 first (without telling her) and then went onto the Sablon. She was immediately intrigued as she said straight away they were very different. I repeated the same order with a different track and then asked her to describe each (still without telling her which one was the new cable).

 

She described the Sablon as slightly louder and more clear.

 

She described the Lush^2 as having much better bass and having different tones for the instruments where the other one seemed more like everything had the same tone.

 

So once again she nailed it!

 

I asked which she preferred and she asked me to play both again. I did so and she picked the Lush.

 

In summary when Peter announced the Lush^2 I ordered two as I wanted to get as much JSSG360 shielding protection as possible into my system. But this testing led me to stumble upon a completely unexpected find that the Lush^2 and Curious cable seem to have a great synergy in my system. On paper I'd have expected the Sablon & Lush^2 to be a better combo but aside from that crackling the Curious edged it.

 

I'm going to have to play around more, especially as I try other Lush^2 configs, so I don't think this matter is settled at all. But the Curious and Lush^2 tag team are kicking ass currently!

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

The above got a bit long but I realise now I neglected to mention the other comparison I did. Lush^2 versus the original Lush. The Lush^2 sounds more 'lushier' than the Lush. That same added musicality, smear, texture that we've known and loved with the original Lush but just more so. Obviously the Lush^2 config might well impact that with other configs changing the distance between the two.

 

[BigAlMc]

1 hour ago, yellowblue said:

@BigAIMc, in my system the Lush^2 wasn´t fully burnt in until 150 hours. Did you try Peter´s last configuration A: A: B-Y & W-R, B: B-Y & W-R? If so, would you mind to take a picture (as Peter is so busy).

 

Hi YellowBlue,

 

Nope, not had a chance to try Peters latest suggestion. Good to know that its still burning in tho.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[BigAlMc]

8 hours ago, PeterSt said:

 

Hi Alan - In that case I am interested in the configuration you used. So you have a verdict (together with your wife) of "better than", but without the configuration this does not exist. If all configs would sound better, then such a verdict could exist indeed, but this is far from the truth because of quite a few I ran into sound like a serious drag. OK, to me.

 

Peter

 

Hi Peter,

 

I'm still using the config that @yellowblue kindly shared here:

 

 

In terms of 'better' I was trying quite hard to avoid using that word. The Lush^2 vs the Sablon was very different but different people would prefer each sound type.

 

The Lush^2 vs the Lush original just seemed a bit more of a pronounced 'lush' effective. But that could be config or ongoing burn-in.

 

The final config is by no means settled and more experimentation is defo needed.

 

Question. Would the Lush^2 on the same config as the original Lush in theory have better SQ due to the additional shielding?

 

Also, I've yet to try the Lush^2 on the JSSG360 config and that seems an obvious contender to trial next.

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

 

[BigAlMc]

2 minutes ago, lmitche said:

The original jssg360(lush) config has the two outside shields connected at the ends with no connection to ground at either side. As we haven't dissected the Lush cable, we don't know if there is another inner shield and if so how it was connected. Therefore we need Peter to tell us what lush^2 config most closely resembles jssg360(lush).

 

Hey Larry,

 

The paper guide that comes with the Lush^2 includes on config that Peter describes as being the JSSG360 config. So it was that one I had in mind.

 

But still be great if Peter can elaborate on the potential shielding improvements.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[BigAlMc]

10 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

Easy !



 

Peter that last smiley says it all.

 

I'm torn between this being fascinating discovery or just too bloody hard! ?

[BigAlMc]

Hi Peter,

 

With all due respect I'll be the judge of 'too bloody hard' ?

 

So next, should I try this:

 

8 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

A: B-W & Y-R, B: B-W
This showed a super sound.
It completely changes the sound from a somewhat congested (too white) highs to ever so lasting colored cymbals. Btw, this is what I had in mind with it for a change (I found the highs too profound).
What came with it is a super fluid/liquid bass which sings and plays music. I actually never experienced the bass like that.

 

Or this:

 

8 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

Up next (01-09-2018) :
A: A: B-Y & W-R, B: B-Y & W-R
Best so far ? Also see Phasure post on 02-09-2018.

 

Or the JSSG360 config?

 

See what I mean! 

 

Don't get me wrong. It's truly fascinating and I don't regret the purchase for even a millisecond. But it's pretty darn confusing with so many options to improve or worsen the sound!

 

And I have two of the Lush^2 so there's the risk of going down the rabbit hole of which two Lush^2 configs compliment each other best.

 

I think I need to go and lie down in a darkened room for a bit...... ?

 

Cheers,

Alan 

[BigAlMc]

24 minutes ago, yellowblue said:

A: A: B-Y & W-R, B: B-Y & W-R
Best so far ? 

For me: Best so far?! Fresh, dynamic sound with large soundstage. Highs are more pronounced and very detailed, but less edgy than "super sound". Alan, you should begin with that, I think. You maybe won´t need the the Curious cable anymore. And I can use my beloved HE-1000 again

 

Thanks YellowBlue,

 

I'll give this one a whirl next.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[BigAlMc]

2 hours ago, yellowblue said:

To be clear, I was refering to the A: B-Y & W-R, B: B-Y & W-R ("Best so far")

 

On 9/3/2018 at 4:59 AM, elcorso said:

Please check if the photo corresponds to the last configuration suggested by Peter

A: A: B-Y & W-R, B: B-Y & W-R

 

 

Hi Peter / All - I'm really not trying to be obtuse here and perhaps it's me being a dumbass but I'm still struggling to understand how to tie this nomenclature back to the config. Put simply I would not have arrived at the config that @elcorso kindly provided a photo of without the photo.

 

If we assume that ALL configs start at the red dot then the underlined parts makes sense:  A: B-Y & W-R, B: B-Y & W-R

 

So from the red dot I start at A with Black and then Yellow. Got it. And on the B side from the red dot I also start with Black & Yellow. Yup. So far so good.

 

But continuing the A side I now have to implement "& W-R" but I would assume that White & Red come next. Instead it seems I need to jump all the way to the far side and then reverse direction and start working back in. Or does the location not matter and all that matters is which colours are connected to each other?

 

Many Thanks,

Alan

 

[BigAlMc]

Anyhoo - the unwitting advantage of having two Lush^2 at hand (and only using one currently due to the previously commented synergy with my Curious cable) is that I can take the one that's not in use and convert it to the next config. And then do a relatively hot-swap to compare. Ok there's still a minute of silence but in terms of audio memory it's a lot quicker than the 10 minutes it was taking beforehand.

 

Have implemented the config that Peter and YellowBlue are talking about:  A: B-Y & W-R, B: B-Y & W-R

 

Initial thoughts are positive. Smoother than the previous "odd config" I was using. Slightly less bass. Will give it a whirl for a while and then might play around later if I can find some time.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[BigAlMc]

21 minutes ago, tims said:

What helped me figure it out is referring to this diagram:

How the pins are connected are at the bottom left of the diagram above: 4 pins (positions 1,2,3,4) are connected together; with the other 2 pins (5 & 6) also connected together (but not to 1,2,3,4). 

Then its just a matter of figuring out what wires need to be joined together by using the above connector.

For A: B-Y & W-R; B: B-Y & W-R is:

A: 1-2 (for B-Y) & 5-6 (for W-R)

B: 1-2 (for B-Y) & 5-6 (for W-R)

 

For another configuration say;

A: B-Y & W-R; B: B-Y 

A: 1-2 (for B-Y) & 5-6 (for W-R)

B: 1-2 (for B-Y) with wires W&R are left hanging; not connected to anything.

 

 

Thanks Tims,

 

Maybe it's just me but still too complicated.

 

If we assume it always starts from the red dots then would the following not be simpler:

 

A: B Y - - R W

 

Just put the colours in order and indicate which are left empty with dashes. Even a slow type like me could follow that without needing to ask for photos ?

 

Cheers,

Alan

[BigAlMc]

On 9/6/2018 at 12:05 PM, yellowblue said:

Had some time to compare A: B-Y & W-R B: B-Y & W-R  with Peter´s latest configuration A: B-Y & W-R, B: B-Y. 

 

Likewise I finally found some time and whilst I could hear some sort of difference I thought the above two were both so good that it's too hard to call. I'm going to give the A: B-Y & W-R, B: B-Y config the benefit of the doubt but I'd be stretching it to say for sure which is better.

 

Anyway - an update on my playing around and my unexpected preference for Curious cable into TX-USBUltra and Lush^2 then into my DAC.

 

It occurred to me that with the Curious in situ and the other Lush^2 sitting on the sidelines I risked having one Lush^2 burned in and the other not. And this sort of thought has the potential to keep obsessed audiophiles awake at night! ?

 

So I took the Curious out and put the other Lush^2 back in place and left them playing. I'd a really busy week so other than taking ten mins to try the new A: B-Y & W-R, B: B-Y that was getting on the hype I didn't have time until today to really listen or post anything. That said I noticed several times how amazing my system was sounding.

 

I started this morning by comparing these two configs. I put the Curious and then the Lush original from Server to TX-USBUltra and swapped the two Lush^2 (one on A: B-Y & W-R, B: B-Y and the other on A: B-Y & W-R B: B-Y & W-R) but as commented above - too close to call.

 

I revisited my Sablon vs Lush^2 and again preferred the Lush^2 for the musicality over the analytical accuracy of the Sablon. But I reiterate that the Sablon is VERY good and this was my preference. Am not saying either is better.

 

I then decided to leave the Lush^2 with A: B-Y & W-R, B: B-Y  in place going into the DAC and revisit my preference for having the Curious further upstream between Server and USB Fixer-Upper. Again the Curious added something in terms of the size of the soundstage but this time there was something compelling about the Lush^2 double act. I swapped the Curious and Lush^2 back and forth but the Lush^2 was clearly winning this time. The bass had more slam and the strings had more immediacy. I'm at a loss to explain whether this reversal was due to the added burn-in or the new configs. 

 

I then compared the Lush^2 to the Sablon upstream (Server to TXU) but again I had that crackling sound that I got last week. Something in this pairing into and out of the TX-USBUltra does not like the Sablon going into the TXU. Interestingly the Sablon from TXU to DAC is fine. The crackling is only when it's downstream. Crackling aside the Lush^2 still appealed more.

 

I then pestered my girlfriend and got her to listen to both of the following:

 

A. Curious > TXUSBUltra > Lush^2 > DAC

 

B. Lush^2 > TXUSBUltra > Lush^2 > DAC

 

Her first comment was "woah that's a tough one". She asked me to play both again. She picked B and when I asked she said, "The first one is like voice over guitars. The second one is like guitars and voice. They're separate".

 

Once again my non-audiophile, please-stop-speaking-to-me-about-bloody-cables ? girlfriend nailed it.

 

My conclusions (and that's all they are, my conclusions):

 

1. The cable closest to the DAC matters the most - no surprise there.

 

2. The Sablon is probably more accurate but the bass and immediacy of the Lush^2 really grabs me.

 

3. The Curious paired with the Lush^2 does something great to the soundstage.

 

4. The Lush^2 and Lush^2 paired (is that Lush^4!!) added an extra layer of texture and life (but a diminishing return compared to the Lush^2 added first to the DAC).

 

5. It would appear that I now have too many USB cables (true story, I used the £500 Sablon to hook my printer up to my laptop in order to scan a document the other day! That's just wrong on so many levels!)  but I'm not overly inclined to part with any at this stage as who knows what tomorrow holds in this hobby!

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

PS One final observation. The A: B-Y & W-R, B: B-Y  has so much slam and swagger in the bass that at times I've found it kinda overwhelming. More than once I've turned the volume down when the next track on a playlist has more bass than the previous track. Not entirely sure if this is a good thing. Anyone else getting this?

 

 

 

[BigAlMc]

5 hours ago, zettelsm said:

Question, BigAlMc:

 

Are you using both Lush^2 in the same configuration before and after your tX-USB Ultra?

 

Thanks!

 

Steve Z

 

 

 

Hi Steve,

 

No. I considered putting them both on the latest comfig but settled on leaving them in the two configs described.

 

 A: B-Y & W-R, B: B-Y into the DAC and A: B-Y & W-R B: B-Y & W-R nto the TX-USBultra..

 

Am intrigued at Peter's comments that burn in took approx 4 weeks so am just letting them play..

 

Might tinker with putting them both on the same config but undecided on whether theoretically different configs bring different things to the party.

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

[BigAlMc]

11 hours ago, PeterSt said:

 

Alan, try one of the described "bad" ones.

Peter

 

Hi Peter,

 

Do you mean combined with a 'good' one or do you mean try two 'bad' ones?

 

I know you want this to be a collaborative scientific endeavour but I struggle with the idea of selecting a worse SQ for giggles!

 

Cheers,

Alan

[BigAlMc]

28 minutes ago, RickyV said:

 

It’s not for giggles it’s for reference, how much the sq gains from the bad one.

So i think both cables.

 

 

Understood but I barely have time to listen to the good configs so the chance of me tackling the bad ones is remote.

[BigAlMc]

Hi @Abtr & @PeterSt,

 

Sorry I'm at the tail end of a holiday standing in an airport in Croatia.

 

I originally thought that Curious into my TX-USBULTRA and Lush^2 into my DAC was a great combo but then after more burn-in preferred Lush^2 into tx-usbultra followed by lush^2.

 

But the Lush^2 into the Tx-usbultra added a lot less than the one after..

 

See my earlier posts in this thread.

 

Interestingly someone else has posted they prefer a more revealing (Intona) USB prior to TX-USBULTRA followed by Lush^2. So I want to revisit that.

 

Academically at least I'd thoroughly recommend the purchase of a Lush^2 for the direct to DAC connection but it might make sense to expiriment with the existing cable upstream before committing to the purchase of a second Lush^2 (sorry Peter!). That said I've settled for now on using both my Lush^2. Catatonic combos aside!

 

Cheers,

Alan

[BigAlMc]

@Abtr what cable do you currently have going into your DAC?