Lush^2 - Share your configuration experiences

[austinpop]

6 hours ago, PeterSt said:

All,

 

 

The past weeks a countless number of times various suggested to create a separate topic/thread for the JSSG 360 Lush. Now with the Lush^2 out, this seems to be the time.

The Lush^2 applies the JSSG 360 tweak in a formal way by means of special connectors. Here you see 10 of of 10,000 or whatever countless possibilities, the 3rd diagram on the second row only showing the original JSSG 360 application :

 

 

The virtual problem is that no-one will be able to try out all the combinations with some sense. Maybe after a while we may reach some consensus like (it is only a virtual example !) the middle shield always needs to be connected to both ends for the best exhibit of the cable. Maybe people with good knowledge/experience are able to tell what foremost never should be done like never leave the source connector disconnected from any shield (virtual example again !), which will eliminate 100s of possibilities.

All I can tell at this moment is that the difference between one or an other is more vast than what I have read from many of you, unless you tend not to exaggerate - haha.
 

 

And that (above) can happen just the same because of what the (special) shielding achieves. And yes, with the Lush^2 I myself have already experienced the "flabby bass" up to super umphy disco bass (both not right at all) just because I applied the wrong shielding combination / config. It is easy to have it wrong but it feels like it is more easy to have it right / for the better by random attempts. But what is the best ? And how does it relate to the PC in use ? Can we ever reach consensus ? Will it be possible to find out the technical mode and merit ?

Just discuss it is also fine; I hope the result and findings will bring us a step closer again to the best sound ever. Where possible I will try to have answers to questions as well, but do notice that I do not carry any baggage and math to show you why a certain config would work out better than the other.

 

Thank you all (see below),

Peter

 

Because the path to the JSSG 360 appliance deserves credit to @JohnSwenson, @lmitche and @austinpop but just as well to the all so many people who ordered the original Lush the past year and the really not few who applied the JSSG 360 tweak so we could get a sense of it really working - the Lush^2 is dedicated to all these people. 

 

 

Very interesting development, Peter!

 

Thank you for the shoutout, but it's all really @JohnSwenson's and @lmitche's ideas - I just screwed up the courage to try a DIY project. It should be clear, but let me clarify anyway, that I have no financial or business ties with Peter - in fact I just heard of the Lush^2 last night!

 

3 hours ago, PeterSt said:

 

I think this can give you an idea :

 

 

Connectors are the same as those of the original Lush.

 

 

Peter, could you clarify the switches on the ends. How do you configure them, in relation to the diagram in your first post?

[austinpop]

Hey gang,

 

Kind of losing the plot here with this nomenclature of A, B, R, Y, W. Is this correct as a "key?"

• A, B = corresponding grounds of the USB A and B connector?
• W = original Lush shield?
• R, Y = 2 new shields in Lush^2?

So is original Lush simply A-W-B?

 

And is the JSSG 360 Lush as done by Larry and me then: A-W-B, R-Y?

 

If I'm way off base, please (gently) correct me!

[austinpop]

8 minutes ago, elcorso said:

 

Hi Rajiv,

 

A = USB connector to the computer

B = USB connector to the DAC

W, B, R, Y = White, Black, Red, Yellow external mini-pin connectors in each A & B connector.

 

For a complete explanation please read previous post or:

http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=4071.0

 

Best, 

 

Roch

 

Thanks, Roch, I had seen that, just wanted to get the shorthand straight!

 

And part of that is relating to the 2configs I’m familiar with - the original Lush, and the JSSG 360 mod.

 

so my question still stands: 

 

32 minutes ago, austinpop said:

So is original Lush simply A-W-B?

 

And is the JSSG 360 Lush as originally done by Larry and me then: A-W-B, R-Y?

 

 

[austinpop]

7 hours ago, lmitche said:

Got it! Many thanks Peter. It's all clear now. Larry

 

Yes, echo that @PeterSt.

 

I am now equipped to understand what new combinations people may find even more pleasing than JSSG 360 "classic."

[austinpop]

5 minutes ago, zettelsm said:

I’ve had my Lush^2 for eight days, so I’ve (barely) had time to get enough hours on it to break it in and try a couple of configurations. But I figure I’ll do my bit to throw in my two cents and maybe participate in some consensus-building — or at least offer some additional data points.

 

I’m coming from using an original Lush between a Innuos Zenith MKII STD running Roon and a Chord DAVE DAC.

 

Since I was familiar with and really liked the original Lush, and I had been reading about the JSSG adventures on another CA thread, when I received the Lush^2 I set it up in the JSSG360 configuration: A: B-W & Y-R B: B-W & Y-R

 

I generally only have time to sit down and listen to music with my undivided attention for an hour or two later in the evenings. Since I leave everything energized except my amplifier when not listening, I get snap-shots of a new piece of kit as it breaks in in 24 hour increments. But break-in goes fairly quickly — four evenings and I’m close to 100 hours, a week and a day and I’m approaching 200 hours. Still, I may need to go back and re-visit this first configuration because I heard some really dramatic tonality and presentation shifts over this first 100 hours.

 

Initially, fresh out of the shipping envelope, my impression was of a large, expansive soundstage, deep bass and somewhat recessed high frequencies, lacking transient snap or PRAT. Still, it sounded promising and I thought the soundstage and imaging already surpassed my original Lush. Since it took well over 100 hours for the high frequencies and transient energy to really fill in with my first Lush, I was content to let the break-in process continue and hear where it went with this configuration.

 

24 hours in and I thought things actually got worse — not only were the highs still missing in action, things sounded billowy and diffuse and very slow and muddled. 

 

50 hours and the sound stage was back to being more precise and expansive, images re-gained weight and definition, and the highs were beginning to catch up to the rest of the frequency spectrum. Rhythm and musical momentum also improved. So, back to sounding promising.

 

At 75 hours, the metamorphosis was quite nice — I thought the Lush^2 in JSSG360 configuration was very balanced top to bottom with a very wide soundstage featuring moderate depth, good energy, and clear highs with only a tiny bit of edge on the highest frequencies, which I chalked up to the inherent sound of less favored digital mastering — I hear this same bit of edge with the original Lush cable as well. On the whole, I thought the Lush^2 an improvement over the already good Lush.

 

For the next listening session I started up listening to a few selections with the cable still in the JSSG360 configuration, and then switched to: A: B-W & Y-R B: B-W

 

My impression of this configuration was that it has everything the previous JSSG360 configuration had — big soundstage, solid images, deep bass, present midrange and decent energy and added the most realistic sounding vocals I’d heard to date from digitally sourced music on my system. Really quite lovely to listen to music, particularly anything featuring the human voice. And, the high frequency edge that sometimes intruded was completely gone, unless the recording itself was a really egregious specimen of digital-sounding engineering.

 

I was very content to listen to this configuration for the rest of the evening and the next. However I started thinking that the reason the midrange and voices were so beautiful, and the high frequencies so edge-free was because there was some essential upper range energy missing. On some music it didn’t really matter, but for other pieces it seemed a little lacking. So, moving along I tried this one next: A: B-Y & W-R B: B-Y & W-R

 

This really is quite a stunning configuration. To my ears it has it all — deep articulate bass, extended grain-free highs, spooky realistic midrange, wide and deep soundstage, strong dynamics with lots of transient pop and rhythmic swing. It also had that elusive, quivery, energize the room presence that real live music has. It was very hard to tear myself away from the stereo last night and I didn’t get to bed before midnight. I’m very much looking forward to sitting down tonight and enjoying more music.

 

If this keeps getting better and better — wow.

 

Steve Z

 

 

 

Thanks for an incredibly helpful set of data points. I was sitting on the fence about getting a Lush^2, since I already have 2 JSSG 360'd Lushes in my system, but you may have tipped me over the edge to contact @PeterSt about getting a Lush^2 to try out.

 

Zounds!

 

 

[austinpop]

25 minutes ago, lmitche said:

OK, so I thought i would emulate you guys and change the shielding on my Lush1 JSSG360 cable from the original A: B-Y & W-R B: B-Y & W-R to Peter´s latest configuration A: B-Y & W-R, B: B-Y. It took five minutes to add a layer of shrink wrap between both shields on the DAC end, and to re-shrink wrap the cable. It definitely sounded different.  Unfortunately, I didn't like it as the speakers seems to emerge rather than disappear, with a gap between them. After playing ten well known songs, I removed the shrink wrap and restored the original JSSG360 configuration. When doing so, I noticed a metal hair from the inside braid further up the cable that may have shorted things well before the endpoint. This was fixed and the shrink wrap replaced.

 

Wow, that did it! At least here, I am amazed at what A: B-Y & W-R B: B-Y & W-R does here, especially after being properly implemented. I've listened to the entire "Trinity Revisited" album from the Cowboy Junkies and it is holographic! I can't believe what I am hearing.

 

Have any of you given this config a proper breakin period on the Lush2?

 

At this point I'm afraid to change anything for fear of ruining the glorious SQ here.

 

 

JSSG 360^2!

 

Oy!

[austinpop]

Actually, now I'm confused too, Larry. I don't know how you can get A: B-Y & W-R, B: B-Y without modifying the original Lush.

 

7 hours ago, lmitche said:

OK, so I thought i would emulate you guys and change the shielding on my Lush1 JSSG360 cable from the original A: B-Y & W-R B: B-Y & W-R to Peter´s latest configuration A: B-Y & W-R, B: B-Y. 

 

On 9/2/2018 at 11:38 PM, PeterSt said:

So W Y R from inside to outside.

 

A couple of key points make me ask this. The original Lush had exactly one shield, W. This was connected as A: B-W, B: B-W. On top of this was the yellow sheath. On top of this, you and I added 2 shields Y and R, connected together, and floating. So that yielded:

 

JSSG 360: A: B-W & Y-R, B: B-W & Y-R.

 

 

The key point I see here is that the only way to not have B-W would be to go under the original Lush sheath, and sever the connection between the original shield (W) and the ground of the connectors (B) on both ends.

 

That's why I think what you did was perhaps create a cable with 4 shields? One shield under the original yellow Lush, and 3 shields that you added?

 

The mind boggles!

[austinpop]

Larry @lmitche,

 

So Peter’s terminology, while really clever, seems to expose our latent dyslexia to varying degrees.

 

Can we go back to what you did on top of:

- original Lush

- original 2 shields comprising JSSG 360?

 

Could you describe, in a bit more stepwise manner, what you did to get your new high water mark of SQ? That’s really the point, isn’t it!

 

No need to use Peter’s terminology; words are fine. Please also clarify the total number of tinned braid shields above the yellow sheath of the original Lush.

 

Does this need to go back to the novel thread, as it’s no longer Lush^2 specific? I’ll leave it up to OP.

[austinpop]

BTW - what I find intriguing about @PeterSt Peter's config A: B-Y & W-R B: B-Y & W-R is that he is creating the JSSG 360 loop with the 1st (W) and 3rd (R) shield, allowing them to float from the connectors. It's only the middle shield ((Y) that is connected to the connector ground on both ends.

 

What I wonder is if this forms essentially a Faraday cage around the primary (middle Y) shield, and if this perhaps provides a more effective guard against RF/EMI.

[austinpop]

1 minute ago, xxx1313 said:

I just changed my mind and ordered a second Lush^2. ?I need to know how a Lush^2-only USB chain sounds.?

 

That's what ^2 means in the name.

[austinpop]

Resistance is futile. Lush^2 ordered.  ? 

[austinpop]

With all the rain we've had here in Austin, I've had all kinds of critters crawling out of the wood work. Case in point, here's a pair I caught slithering around my deck:

 

 

The upper one is a Dutch Lush^2, new to these parts, while the lower one is a grizzled veteran JSSG 360 Lush^1, with a few battle scars.  

 

Burn in has begun.

[austinpop]

31 minutes ago, RickyV said:

 

Careful @austinpop they look highly poisonous. ☠️?

 

Rick ?

 

Nope - any self respecting Texan will tell you:

• Red touch black, friend of Jack
• Red touch yellow, kills a fellow .

So my JSSG 360 Lush^1 is harmless. Speaking of red on yellow, those are coral snakes in Central TX, and we've seen a couple this year and last, just wandering around our 'hood. Luckily, they're very shy, so it takes a lot to get bitten by one.

 

 

Warning: do not use as USB cable!

 

[austinpop]

8 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Wow, your camera really had a hard time capturing that gloriously ugly "Phasure-yellow" color of the jacket that Peter chose to perfectly match his web site. 

 

Jeez! Et tu, Alex?

 

First @Ralf11 thinks my deck needs staining, now you’re crapping on my camera?

 

Witch hunt! ?

[austinpop]

Well, my Lush^2 has been in my system 24/7 for 3 weeks now, so I figured it was time to do some direct comparisons. I've left my Lush^2 in the shipped configuration of A:B-W-Y-R, B:B-W-R. My baseline chain was:

• Zenith SE > JSSG 360 Lush > tX-USBultra > JSSG 360 Lush > DAC

Since my past experience with USB cables has been that they matter most in the last leg of the chain, i.e. between tX-U and DAC, I placed the Lush^2 further upstream, between the SE and tX-U, to burn in. To begin comparisons, I restored my baseline chain (see above), and immediately noticed a drop in SQ. Hm, that's strange, I thought, but continued on. First up, I compared my baseline to what I assumed would be my final chain:

• Zenith SE > JSSG 360 Lush > tX-USBultra > Lush^2 > DAC

Yes, definite improvement. More air, more detail, and a a more natural tone. Very nice!  But something was nagging me about the drop I observed initially. So I then tried this:

• Zenith SE > Lush^2 > tX-USBultra > JSSG 360 Lush > DAC

Wow, that made a big improvement! What? So I then compared between:

• Zenith SE > JSSG 360 Lush > tX-USBultra > Lush^2 > DAC
• Zenith SE > Lush^2 > tX-USBultra > JSSG 360 Lush > DAC

The latter sounded better! So this is where things stand in my chain now. I remain flabbergasted that the Lush^2 made a bigger impact upstream as I've never experienced that with other cables. One can speculate about whether it is the combination of shields and ground, but whatever the reason, the conclusion is that a) the Lush^2 improved my system SQ, and b) its ideal position in the chain was further upstream!

[austinpop]

46 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

 

Hi Rajiv - but you forgot to try the 10,000+ combinations !

haha

 

Thank you for the extensive outlay. I think it could be helpful to others.

Kind regards - Peter

 

Hi Peter,

 

I am benefitting from your efforts! Maybe I will try some experiments when I dare to open Pandora's Box.

 

5 minutes ago, FrankMA said:

Thanks @austinpop Something has been bugging my about the presentation I had been getting since adding the Lush 2 between the tX-USBultra & PS Audio DAC

 

After reading the above this morning I moved my Lush 2 between the MKII and the tX-USBultra and have to agree with @austinpop  It is clearly/instantly better. 

 

I will do more detailed testing but I suspect I'll be staying with:

 

Zenith MKII > Lush 2 > tX-USBultra > Lush 1 > DAC

 

Always good to hear that someone else with their own ears and a different system finds the same result. I need to sketch the shielding and grounding path of the cables in conjunction with my system to see if there are any clues.

[austinpop]

56 minutes ago, lmitche said:

So this report does not conclude that Peter made a mistake with PNF 'it also does not exonerate him.’

 

From obstruction of Lush-tice? 😛 

[austinpop]

2 hours ago, TheAttorney said:

I’ve now finished my first, and hopefully last, set of Blaxius^2D configuration tests. My objective was to find, as quickly as possible, if the default (shipped from Feb 2019) could be improved upon. So it was a rapid-fire A/B kind of test, which may not have done justice to some of the settings and I’ve probably made some errors of judgement. In which case tough, I don’t have the time or patience to spend hours/days on this. If any setting didn’t WOW me, it got immediately dropped. So as always, YMMV.

 

I tested around 14 variants, particularly those that others have liked. So there may be a label like PNF, or another users name if they’ve liked that setting before (these typically are Lush users because there are so many more of them). What works on Lush doesn’t necessarily work on Blaxius. I sometimes give a brief comment of what I noticed about a particular setting. No comment means nothing struck me as being remarkable, or I was just getting bored.

 

Regarding my simplified notation, I’ve kept the square brackets for Blaxius^2D, but other users just need to ignore the brackets and it all still works.

 

[W]BR      [W]BR         Blax def Sep 2018.  Noticeably worse than the later default.

[W]BRY    [W]B&RY    Blax def Feb 2019. Really, really good.  

[W]BRY    [W]B            lmitche fave. Ok, but thin, where’s the bass?

[W]B         [W]BR         lasker98 fave. A touch bright.

[W]BRY    [W]BR         Lush def. A touch splashy, unfocused.

[W]B&RY  [W]B           PNF. Good, worth a retry

[W]B&RY  [W]B&RY   JSSG360. Smooth, but flat, boring. Retry for bright systems?

[W]B&RY  [W]BR        Sort of Ok?

[W]B&RY  [W]BRY

[W]BR      [W]BR         Boom & tizz

[W]BR      [W]B           Smooth, but unfocused  

 

Out of these, I retried the Blax Feb 2019, PNF and JSSG360, and of these The Blax Feb 2019 won quite easily in the end. Which was kinda disappointing because that was the one I started with, so the pin configurability has proved to be redundant for me. I was just about to publish my findings when Kurb1980 came out with his new recommendation, so I tried that plus a couple of close variants:

 

[W]BY  [W]BY            kurb1980 Jul 2019.  WOW, but too much presence/lower treble? 

[W]BY  [W]B              kurb1980 Jan 2019. Good, but less WOW than latest.      

[W]BY  [W]B&RY       Good, but less WOW than latest. Getting bored, so stop now.     

 

 I’ve lived with [W]BY  [W]BY for a couple of days and, whether cable burn-in or brain burn-in, the low-treble peakiness seems to have disappeared and I find no downsides at all. So, in conclusion, the best SQ in my system is…         

      [W]BY  [W]BY           kurb1980 Jul 2019     

   

And honorable 2^nd place is…

      [W]BRY  [W]B&RY    Blax def Feb 2019

                

 

Thanks for posting these results. I just recently got a pair of Blaxius^2D's (Blaxia^2D?) to try between my recently arrived HMS and TT2. I don't know when I'll get to play with these shielding experiments... they're on my backlog, but seem to always get pushed down behind other experiments.

 

I'm curious about 2 things.

 

First, you said:

      [W]BRY  [W]B&RY    Blax def Feb 2019

 

but according to Peter, his "Blax def Feb 2019" is [W]BYR  [W]BYR (all shields connected at both ends). Please see below:

 

On 6/14/2019 at 4:34 AM, PeterSt said:

Now the one from February 2019:

... It should be:

Shipped (for Digital) with : A:[W]B-Y-R, B:[W]B-Y-R

(all shields connected at both ends)

 

And indeed my cables arrived in June 2019 with A:[W]B-Y-R, B:[W]B-Y-R.

 

So before you conclude your experiment, could you please also try what you would call: [W]BRY  [W]BRY? How does it compare to your 1st place and runner-up?

[austinpop]

6 minutes ago, TheAttorney said:

Okay, I'm going to stick my neck out again and challenge the established expert by saying that I think Peter has got it wrong.

 

I'm pretty sure that my Blaxius had arrived as I had written (i.e. the R and Y wires were connected to B (ground) on the A end, but not connected to ground  on the B end). Unfortunately I didn't take a photo at the time.

 

I can tell you 100% that my B^2D arrived as follows (sorry, but I prefer Peter's notation):

• A:[W]B-Y-R, B:[W]B-Y-R

Here are the 2 ends of the cable:

    

 

6 minutes ago, TheAttorney said:

I will try the BRY BRY option, but won't be able to for a couple of days.

 

That would be much appreciated. I'd love to know your impressions.

[austinpop]

 

13 hours ago, TheAttorney said:

.

I will try the BRY BRY option, but won't be able to for a couple of days.

 

I freed up time this evening to do some comparisons on the Blaxius^2D cables. I compared this:

    A:[W]B-Y-R, B:[W]B-Y-R (my shipped default)

 

with

    A:[W]B-Y, B:[W]B-Y (your winner).

 

Wow no contest! Your winner is soooo much better. I heard more air and smoother less fatiguing tone. It seemed the noise floor had dropped perceptibly.

 

I had forgotten how much of a difference these shielding configs can make. Brings to mind how much I was blown away by Larry’s first JSSG360 Lush.

 

Thank you so much for you B^2D experiments. I will stick to your top BY BY config for a while to see how it holds up longer term.

[austinpop]

6 hours ago, Confused said:

I had wondered about using the Blaxius 2 as a clock cable.  (maybe a crazy idea, I am not sure)  @austinpop - had you thought of trying it versus your Habst?  (although maybe your Habst is 50 ohm?  I can't remember)

 

Not yet. Yes my Habst is 50 ohm, but I have other 75 ohm cables I can compare to. 

[austinpop]

12 hours ago, TheAttorney said:

 

I'm curious how far you've gone with experimenting with jumper positions.

E.g. Are you saying that jumper on pin 1 and leads on pins 2,3,4 sound better than leads on 1,2,3 and jumper on 4?

And 2 jumpers on pins 5,6 sound better than a single jumper bridging 5 and 6?

What sort of differences are you hearing?

 

And how does that compare with no jumpers at all on the spare pins?

 

I put aside my scepticism to briefly try some different jumper positions, but so far I've not come to any conclusions. I.e. I have nor yet decided if any changes I'm hearing are real or imaginary. I'll need my system to settle down for longer to get a stable reference point (still with [W}B-Y  [W}B-Y as favourite)

 

Unfortunately, it's impossible to try your new personal favourite with a Blaxius^2D.

 

I thought this was a different configuration, not just jumper changes. It looks to me to be:

- A:W-Y-R

- B:W-Y-R.

 

Am I misreading the picture?

[austinpop]

On 7/11/2019 at 1:08 AM, kurb1980 said:

Alright I think I found my personal favorite!  This one has a refined sound, musical, and a lushness to the air around the vocals and instruments.

On a side note I picked up some extra jumper caps so I could do this configuration.  

 

I've been traveling, so just got a chance to try this configuration. A few hours in, but I have to agree with you and others: this one is a definite keeper.

 

To be clear, I'm only replicating the shields, i.e. A:WYR, B:WYR. I can't be bothered messing with jumper configurations. In my case I have a vertical jumper on the pin with the red dot, and a second jumper spanning the 2 free pins on the far right.

 

Interestingly enough, I recently bought a 2nd Lush^2 cable to replace an existing JSSG360 Lush cable. I wanted to replace this:

      custom server > Lush^2 > tX-USBultra > JSSG30 Lush > Hugo M Scaler

with

      custom server > Lush^2 > tX-USBultra > Lush^2 > Hugo M Scaler

 

After receiving the 2nd Lush^2 from Peter, I was disappointed to find my server and DAC would not connect with both Lush^2's in the path. After I tried this latest WYR combo, on a whim I again tried the second Lush^2 in the path, and this now works.

 

I can't even begin to explain why. Perhaps floating the connectors (wire B) on both ends solves some issue... I don't know. Either way, the combination of 2 Lush^2's in the path, and the WYR combo is just fantastic!

 

Thanks for your experiments, @kurb1980

 

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, lwr said:

What is the difference between the JSSG360 and the JSSG360 cubed connections?

 

Please do not make us do searches, then spoon feed you. Go to the search box, and search:

• first "JSSG" to understand John Swenson's articulation of a cable shielding approach using a floating drain wire connecting the 2 ends of the shield
• then "JSSG 360" where @lmitche extended JS's idea, where the drain "wire" is now a second cylindrical shield (hence the 360º). See this post
• With the Lush^2 cable, @PeterSt takes this approach further, as outlined in the early posts on this thread.

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 

Hi Colin:  

So which config are you liking now?

And when was A: B-W-Y, B: B-W-Y discussed?  I thought @kurb1980's "Cubed" config was A: W-Y-R, B: W-Y-R.  So hard to keep up with you guys! 

 

Alex,

 

A: B-W-Y, B: B-W-Y was @kurb1980 previous favorite, which several of us tried and liked.

 

Since he couldn't "kurb" his enthusiasm, he continued to experiment, identifying A: W-Y-R, B: W-Y-R as his new favorite. I agree with him, I like this config better too.  So I said bye-bye to BWY-BWY   and am now enjoying A: W-Y-R, B: W-Y-R.