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The Computer Audiophile

Help CA Find New Speakers

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13 hours ago, semente said:

 

I haven't listened to the kiis but from my experience I wouldn't think that a  standmount with 6.5'' bass drivers can compete with large speakers with big drivers. Yes, the response does go down and flat but still...

 

Perhaps @Kal Rubinson can give his opinion on how the kiis compare to his large speakers low-end and dynamics wise (unless he's signed a non-disclosure agreement with the magazine or manufacturer).

 

My reference for low-bass and sub-bass is the sealed bass bin of an old pair of 801Fs and prefer selad to ported. The Reference Ones were the best speaker currently being sold that I have listened to.

The Kiis have quality low bass that will be plenty for most people. Pretty loud and powerful. The can do a pipe organ or the latest Beyonce with no issues.  More bass than many other speakers, including some much larger floorstanders.

 

That said, the medium size drivers can only do so much. They will not give you the kind of low bass you get in a large powerful subwoofer setup. Your hear the bass, it isn't the kind that you physically feel. If you want that and to play low bass very loudly in a big room, they probably wouldn't do the trick for you. Maybe the new module changes that. 


Main listening (small home office):

Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>CAPS IV Pipeline Server + Sonore 12V PS>Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.
 

Secondary Listening: CAPS Pipeline>IFi iOne DAC>Schiit Freya>Kii Three . Also an SBT and a RB Pi 3B+ running piCorePlayer as an SBT emulator. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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26 minutes ago, firedog said:

The Kiis have quality low bass that will be plenty for most people. Pretty loud and powerful. The can do a pipe organ or the latest Beyonce with no issues.  More bass than many other speakers, including some much larger floorstanders.

 

That said, the medium size drivers can only do so much. They will not give you the kind of low bass you get in a large powerful subwoofer setup. Your hear the bass, it isn't the kind that you physically feel. If you want that and to play low bass very loudly in a big room, they probably wouldn't do the trick for you. Maybe the new module changes that. 

 

I have never listened to them but from looking at the topology I would think from theory and experience that a speaker with such small drivers in such a small cabinet would not be able to compete with a large full-range speaker with large drivers.

Their performance is probably enough for but all but the most demanding audiophiles or some crazy bass-heads...

 

I don't care for pop and wouldn't use it for assessment anyway.

Two of the test tracks tha I have been using for evaluting bottom end performance are the Mravinsky/DG "Scherzo" from Tchaikovsky's 4th (a symphony I've listened to live) and Ron Carter's "Saguaro". They're ripe with timbral diversity, dynamic amplitude and loe-level detail, pizzicato/plucked and legatto/bowed playing.


"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira Pascoaes

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12 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I agree, it's a tough act to follow but I'm digging the input from everyone. really cool. 

 

I expected several other manufacturer's names to come up, but they haven't. No worries from me, just something I noticed.

 

Yeah, Revel is really good. Kevin Voecks is a damn good designer. 

 

As you say the CR1 is a really good speaker perhaps one of the best I have listened to and a really good one to evaluate other equipment with.

 

Have you heard of the German brand Kaiser Acoustics? Their Kawero model is one really good sounding loudspeaker often one of the best at shows here in Europe. 

 

https://www.kaiser-acoustics.com/en/speakers/speakers.html

 

I have owned different Focals (listened to the new EVO but I dont feel that they get up to TAD standard), KEF and others but I have settled down with a complete TAD system. I do feel that TAD speakers sound the best with their own electronics but that is just my opinion ? 

 

If you like CR1 have you not thougt about the bigger R1? 


Main system
TAD D1000mk2, TAD M2500mk2, TAD CE-1, Ansuz Mainz 8 C2, Ansuz Darkz D and T2
Tidal Hifi / Qobuz Studio -> Roon ROCK on NUC -> dCS Network bridge -> AES/EBU -> DAC
HD Plex 200W PSU (4 rail for ISP fiber, router, switch and NUC)
 
Second system
Tidal Hifi / Qobuz Studio -> Devialet Silver Phantom, Devialet Tree

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Has to be the Magico M3’s.....in truth not heard them but have the Q3’s and based on these I am inclined to believe the very positive reviews of the M3.   

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1 hour ago, wdw said:

Has to be the Magico M3’s.....in truth not heard them but have the Q3’s and based on these I am inclined to believe the very positive reviews of the M3.   

When I purchased my CR1s the other option I considered was Q3s. Both great speakers. 


Founder of Audiophile Style and Superphonica

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48 minutes ago, firedog said:

Yes, but the DSP functions of the speaker allow maximum excursion of the woofers with little distortion, something the same woofer can't do in a traditional system.

So no, it can't compete with really large woofers with lots of power behind them, but you get much more bass than you'd expect from just what you see in the specs about size. See Kal's review. 

Devialet units can do a similar "trick" with their SAM system controlling your speakers - you get noticeably more bass output than you would from the same speaker powered by the same Devialet, but without SAM.

 

Thanks for the follow up. How big is your room by the way?

I had a chance of buying actives 4 years ago when I moved to the UK and had to sell my speakers but ended up bringing my amplifier along... Perhaps I made the wrong choice.


"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira Pascoaes

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2 hours ago, octaviars said:

 

As you say the CR1 is a really good speaker perhaps one of the best I have listened to and a really good one to evaluate other equipment with.

 

Have you heard of the German brand Kaiser Acoustics? Their Kawero model is one really good sounding loudspeaker often one of the best at shows here in Europe. 

 

https://www.kaiser-acoustics.com/en/speakers/speakers.html

 

I have owned different Focals (listened to the new EVO but I dont feel that they get up to TAD standard), KEF and others but I have settled down with a complete TAD system. I do feel that TAD speakers sound the best with their own electronics but that is just my opinion ? 

 

If you like CR1 have you not thougt about the bigger R1? 

Thanks for the Kaiser link. Hadn’t heard of those. 

 

I’ve heard the R1s many times and like them as well. 


Founder of Audiophile Style and Superphonica

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6 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

When I purchased my CR1s the other option I considered was Q3s. Both great speakers. 

 

I think that you made the right choice. I have listened to both the Q5s and the Ref1s a couple of times and in my opinion the latter are better speakers. Probably the best I have listened to so far, better than Alexandrias or even the Nautilus (which compete with the Giyas for the "ugliest ever" award)...


"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira Pascoaes

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I didn’t go through the all the posts so mine could be a repetition of what’s already been suggested. 

 

I would say Sound Lab but at 15 feet width it might not breathe well in the room. 

 

The speakers I was attracted to during the recent visit to a AV show were:-

 

1) https://www.ventureaudio.com/ultimateseries/#/xtreme/

 

2) Spendor floorstander. 

 

3) https://www.jblsynthesis.com/productdetail/k2-s9900.html

 

4) Sonus Faber 

 

I am inclined towards 3 and 1. The spendor was nice but hard to judge due to poor rooms acoustics.  

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23 minutes ago, Summit said:

Audio Physic and Revel make very good speakers at a somewhat reasonable price. Marten make some really great speakers, but the really good ones cost a lot unfortunately.

I've always loved Marten speakers. The sound and looks are right up my alley. 

 

If I could afford it, I'd buy the Coltrane 3.


Founder of Audiophile Style and Superphonica

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18 hours ago, Blake said:

 

Sorry, this is not true. 

 

Kevin's roles/title may have changed over the last couple of years to focus less on design, but he was absolutely part of the design team that designed the Salons mentioned in this thread and other Revel speakers (they use a "team approach" at Revel for design since they have so many resources).  

 

https://www.stereophile.com/interviews/608kev/index.html

https://www.stereophile.com/content/revel-salon-loudspeaker-visit-revel-factory

 

Kevin was Chief Engineer at Revel when the company was started:

https://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/89/index.html

Sorry, I don't normally respond to rebuttals of my posts but I don't want folks to think I pull sh!t out of thin air & post as fact.

Not trying to start anything and I'm certainly not bent out of shape. No point.

I searched the Revel thread on AVS and while I could not find that certain post by revelman, I did find this post by the thread starter responding to much the same post as Chris's. It is post #8023 in the thread if you care to look.

"Small point, Kevin Voecks is not an engineer. He is a product or technology manager.
From time to time we have had actual Harman engineers like xxxx xxxxx who were responsible for the design of Revel speakers contribute to this thread."

While the poster may have overstated it saying that Voecks is not an engineer. AFAIR, he worked for Snell Acoustics before joining Harman. It seems that Voecks was chief engineer at one time but was promoted. Those posts you cited are pretty old. Not hard to think he changed roles in 10 or 20 years.

I remember clearly reading that post because I was surprised by it. I'm guessing that he deleted the post after thinking better about it or was told to delete as Kevin Voecks posts on the thread often under AKV. I x'd out the man's real name.

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1 hour ago, Milt99 said:

AFAIR, he worked for Snell Acoustics before joining Harman. It seems that Voecks was chief engineer at one time but was promoted. Those posts you cited are pretty old. Not hard to think he changed roles in 10 or 20 years.

1 hour ago, Milt99 said:

 

 

It is a simple as this- I am correcting something you posted so as to not perpetuate false information, no malice intended.  You posted Kevin is not a speaker designer.  That is incorrect.  In your defense, I realize you didn't pull this out of thin air, you got it from the AVS forums.

 

Kevin has historically been a speaker designer.  That is his background, proof of which is found in the links I provided.  

 

One link I provided is old because it provides detail about his role in the early days of Revel (Chief Engineer- and you know, I don't think he would have that title if he did not have a role in speaker design).  The other more recent posts relate to the Salon 2, which is a current speaker in the line.  If you want to read the articles I posted, you will find lots of nuggets that point out that he was absolutely involved in the design of that current speaker.  

 

Your AVS post was from 2016 and the Salon 2 was released a long time prior to 2016.  Yes, Kevin had moved on to a different role by 2016, but that does not change the fact that his background is as a designer.  

 

That is all, no big whoop, you were not at any fault, all is good, and I'm sure we are the only two in this thread who care so back to the topic at hand.....?


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26 minutes ago, Blake said:

Kevin has historically been a speaker designer.  That is his background...

 

After moving to Harmon, Kevin Voecks designed the second generation of Revel's Ultima series. Both the Ultima Studio 2 and the Ultima Salon 2 are his designs.


"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted"- William Bruce Cameron

 

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This is a fun thread because I've never heard of some of the brands people are mentioning.

@The Computer Audiophile does your search for new speakers mean that we will see some speaker reviews from you?


NUC7PJYH/AL --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10/HDPLEX 200W/HDPLEX 400W DC-ATX --> ISO REGEN/LPS-1.2 --> iFi iDSD Micro --> Focal CMS50's 

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45 minutes ago, Kal Rubinson said:

From a post on Audiogon:
Read this post from sistercompany JBL's designer Greg Timbers. 
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=193295&postcount=65

 

Thank you Kal. My understanding from a former executive of ML is that Kevin was quite deeply involved, although Mark Glazer may have done the acoustic engineering. "Final voicing decisions and other aspects of the product definition" encompasses important aspects of the design.

 

In an interview with Sumit Chawla in 2004, Kevin was described as Director of Technology at Harman Specialty Group. Kevin offered the following:

"In fact, that's the only thing Dr. Harman said at the inception of the company - “Make the world's best loudspeakers.” No restrictions on the kind of technology. For example, if we had decided that electrostatics were best, even though that's a completely different kind of technology than you've seen in the Harman loudspeaker brands. There were absolutely no restrictions. We determined with double blind listening tests and engineering research that dynamic loudspeakers although refined, in numerous ways, make for the most accurate loudspeakers."


"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted"- William Bruce Cameron

 

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