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Help CA Find New Speakers

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54 minutes ago, firedog said:

 You don't need the BXT for "full range". Interestingly, the published specs have  been changed from 20hz at the low end to "only" 30hz. But the Kiis without the BXT have been measured as "full range".

You do need the BTX if you want to play very loudly or to fill a large room. It  also adds a significant amount to the maximum SPL output of the system. I'm sure dynamics for something like an orchestral piece are improved with the added bass module, and bass distortion at low frequencies/high output is surely reduced. Apparently the modules also further reduce various room interactions (ceiling and floor). 

Yes, the measurement from Kal's review pair without the BXT.  The low end hump is a measurement artifact. Pretty much full range. 

917Kii3fig3.jpg

 

But you wouldn't want to handicap Chris' new setup now would you? :)


To paraphrase Rick James, "sighted listening is a helluva drug".

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1 hour ago, esldude said:

Yes, the measurement from Kal's review pair without the BXT.  The low end hump is a measurement artifact. Pretty much full range. 

917Kii3fig3.jpg

 

But you wouldn't want to handicap Chris' new setup now would you? :)

I think Chris would really like the Kiis. But since he's had those TAD monitors for years, I'm guessing he won't go in the monitor direction again. Those are really good speakers. Switching from those will probably push you in a different direction. 

 

I wonder if Kii changed the specs of the Kii Three just to be conservative, or if they changed the DSP to prevent full extension down at 20 hz to prevent a little distortion....


Main listening (small home office):

Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>CAPS IV Pipeline Server + Sonore 12V PS >SOtM Lan Isolator>Bricasti M5 Network Player >Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.
 

Secondary Listening: CAPS Pipeline>IFi iOne DAC>Schiit Freya>Kii Three . Also an SBT and a RB Pi 3B+ running piCorePlayer as an SBT emulator. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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3 hours ago, esldude said:

That probably wasn't nearly the comeback remark you think it was.  It actually could sound like you agree with me. ?

 

No hard feelings about it either way.  I just don't think you can future proof such situations.  You'll have to decide when to jump in and start taking part somewhere.  Waiting till it all settles down might take a generation.  

 

Unremarkably you weren't cowed because it was agreeing with you in part.  What, with all the brigading against the old guard and all.  Which side of the line we stand on is pretty clear here.  ?

 

Ask yourself in practical earthy terms what reason the farmer has for pasturing his bulls away from the heiffers.  It should shape up to good business sense using selective breeding to maintain his line.  Why on earth would he then replace a blue ribbon winning showcase he trots out at every chance with a new and unproven breed?  This is not the same thing as also playing in a wider field knowing you can easily cull the runts.  There is a professionals steady hand in both that their reputation is built upon.

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On 8/3/2018 at 5:07 PM, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

- I need a full range speaker 

- Compatible with a range of amplifiers

- Dont get hung up on price when offering opinions. 

 

I'm afraid the main hurdle with active speakers would be inclusion of his second requirement (unless there is some sort of switch to over-ride the internals). But I do like the general idea of maximally leveraging the unique computer aspect of Computer Audiophile.  It is, after all, the raison d'être of the site. It is the old guard, in reality, who are "brigading against" CA, not the other way around, despite whatever flowery, incoherent verbiage is used to disguise all of the bull....


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Do facts matter?

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On 8/5/2018 at 2:36 AM, The Computer Audiophile said:

I hate to do this but I have to rule out the fantastic Vivid loudspeakers. I just can’t stand to look at them. Got to be honest. 

 

Ha, I suggestem them but I also think they're up there in the ugliest ever speakers top 6.


"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira Pascoaes

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14 hours ago, esldude said:

I don't know which brand mitchco is about to review.  If you are open to the idea, here is one I'd have a short list. 

 

https://www.kiiaudio.com/

 

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/kii-audio-three

 

You'll want the BXT modules for a full range setup I think.   This is the sort of innovative product that will eventually become the norm for high performing speakers using DSP, beamforming and such to do what no passive design possibly can.  

 

Kal's reviewed them for Stereophile.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/kii-audio-three-loudspeaker

 

The Dutch&Dutch 8c would also fall into this new category of modern speaker. 

https://dutchdutch.com/8c/

 

 

I haven't listened to the kiis but from my experience I wouldn't think that a  standmount with 6.5'' bass drivers can compete with large speakers with big drivers. Yes, the response does go down and flat but still...

 

Perhaps @Kal Rubinson can give his opinion on how the kiis compare to his large speakers low-end and dynamics wise (unless he's signed a non-disclosure agreement with the magazine or manufacturer).

 

My reference for low-bass and sub-bass is the sealed bass bin of an old pair of 801Fs and prefer selad to ported. The Reference Ones were the best speaker currently being sold that I have listened to.


"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira Pascoaes

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21 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Would love @mitchco‘s advice on the complete system like Bill mentioned above  and some passive options. 

 

@Jud what say you, Vandersteen?

 

Hi Chris -

 

Well of course I like the Vandersteens :)but I'd say you should have a listen in your home to see whether their imaging qualities would work in your space. 

 

Planar/electrostats are interesting - exceptionally clear midrange and top end, but back when I was seriously listening to them long ago, they had one of two problems: couldn't play really loud at the bottom end; or used a dynamic bass driver to get around this, which caused some problems coherently integrating the sound of the two different types of drivers. Quite possible those problems have been overcome since. 

 

I've been really impressed with Focal's big speakers the last couple of times I've heard them - a "you are there" clarity. 

 

A couple of big names I have generally not been impressed with (apologies to anyone who owns/likes these, just my personal taste) are Sonus Faber and Wilson.  The latter I've heard sounding good in a couple of setups, but much more often the top end sounds etched to me. 


One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen (powered by LPS-1) -> Ghent JSSG360 USB cable -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC ->

Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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21 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Would love @mitchco‘s advice on the complete system like Bill mentioned above  and some passive options. 

 

@Jud what say you, Vandersteen?

 

The Quatros and above require an external high-pass filter between pre-amp and amp that must be adjusted (or at least checked with a voltmeter) for each amp's input impedance.  The high-pass settings are never quite exact for any amp, so the bass level on the speakers may also need to be adjusted to compensate.  Also the high-pass filter is either XLR or RCA, and I don't believe XLR-to-RCA adaptors work (at least according to RV).  I think this adds too much complication for the Quatro and above to be used as the only reference speakers.

 

The Treos are completely passive so this is not an issue for them.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Daverz said:

 

The Quatros and above require an external high-pass filter between pre-amp and amp that must be adjusted (or at least checked with a voltmeter) for each amp's input impedance.  The high-pass settings are never quite exact for any amp, so the bass level on the speakers may also need to be adjusted to compensate.  Also the high-pass filter is either XLR or RCA, and I don't believe XLR-to-RCA adaptors work (at least according to RV).  I think this adds too much complication for the Quatro and above to be used as the only reference speakers.

 

The Treos are completely passive so this is not an issue for them.

 

 

 

Long time Vandersteen dealer says you can here: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/vandersteen-quatros-and-high-pass-filter-issues

 

But if Richard says different....


One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen (powered by LPS-1) -> Ghent JSSG360 USB cable -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC ->

Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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3 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Long time Vandersteen dealer says you can here: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/vandersteen-quatros-and-high-pass-filter-issues

 

But if Richard says different....

 

OK, I looked thru the "Ask Richard" page on the Vandersteen site and RV says:

 

HELLO DAVE, YES YOU CAN USE THE XLR TO RCA ADAPTERS AS LONG AS PIN #3 AND PIN #1 ARE CONNECTED TOGETHER. YOU WOULD USE THE SAME SWITCHES AS SPECIFIED ON THE COVER.

 

So the XLR filters should work for both with the right adaptors.

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TAD speakers are an extremely tough act to follow.

I would recommend Revel Salon2 speakers.

I've heard them a lot and bought Studio2s based on the Salon2s.

 

I've never read a less than enthusiastic review of either the Salon2s or Studio2s.

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8 minutes ago, Milt99 said:

TAD speakers are an extremely tough act to follow.

I would recommend Revel Salon2 speakers.

I've heard them a lot and bought Studio2s based on the Salon2s.

 

I've never read a less than enthusiastic review of either the Salon2s or Studio2s.

I agree, it's a tough act to follow but I'm digging the input from everyone. really cool. 

 

I expected several other manufacturer's names to come up, but they haven't. No worries from me, just something I noticed.

 

Yeah, Revel is really good. Kevin Voecks is a damn good designer. 


Founder of Audiophile Style and Superphonica

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The important question(s) are:

Why is it time to make a change?

Why are you ready to move on?

 

Those determine the direction to move... i.e. what "imperfection factor space" to move along...

 

 


"The overwhelming majority [of audiophiles] have very little knowledge, if any, about the most basic principles and operating characteristics of audio equipment. They often base their purchasing decisions on hearsay, and the preaching of media sages. Unfortunately, because of commercial considerations, much information is rooted in increasing revenue, not in assisting the audiophile. It seems as if the only requirements for becoming an "authority" in the world of audio is a keyboard."

-- Bruce Rozenblit of Transcendent Sound

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I like the Revel Salon 2 suggestion, or JBL M2.

 

On the opposite end of the spectrum  I am also very intrigued by the Boenicke W11 and W13 from Switzerland.  They get terrific reviews from audio shows (hard to do).

 

http://boenicke-audio.ch/w11_c/

 

 


Home: UltraRendu (Roon) + LPS-1.2 | Berkeley Alpha USB | Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 | Jeff Rowland Coherence II Series 2 | Blue Circle Audio BC202 | Raidho XT-1 | 2 x Revel Performa3 B112 subwoofers (Sablon Reserva usb+ethernet+power cords/MG Audio Planus 3 cables/GIK Acoustic room treatments/Stillpoints/Blue Circle Conditioners). Headphones: Cavalli Liquid Carbon > HD800/Meze 99 

 

Desktop at Work: Iso Regen + LPS-1 > Schiit Eitr > Schiit Bifrost Multibit | Luminous Audio Axiom II pre | Job 225 amp | Scansonic MK-5 monitors | Elac S10 sub

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2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I agree, it's a tough act to follow but I'm digging the input from everyone. really cool. 

 

I expected several other manufacturer's names to come up, but they haven't. No worries from me, just something I noticed.

 

Yeah, Revel is really good. Kevin Voecks is a damn good designer. 

Just to clear up a common misconception, Kevin Voecks is not a speaker designer. He's the head of development.

This was made clear a couple years back in the Revel Speaker Owners thread on AVS when 2 speaker engineers were contributing to the thread. No snark or disdain but they stated straight up that Kevin is product manager and a great one but he does not engineer any speakers. No biggie. Kevin also chimes in frequently on the thread.

Good luck in your search Chris. Should be a blast!

Now if you want to let go of those beat-up high mileage TADs at say a 75% discount I'm your man. ;)

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2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I expected several other manufacturer's names to come up, but they haven't.

 

Just to throw out a name I've always been curious about but have never actually heard, there's Rockport.

 

Or there's this from @PeterSt and his speaker business partner Bert:

 

Orelo.JPG

 

Or these, from a boutique manufacturer named Oswalds Mill Audio (I've heard a pair of their speakers from much further down in the line, sounded nice):

 

Monarch.jpg

Imperia_walnut_setup.jpg


One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen (powered by LPS-1) -> Ghent JSSG360 USB cable -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC ->

Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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17 minutes ago, Milt99 said:

Just to clear up a common misconception, Kevin Voecks is not a speaker designer. He's the head of development.

This was made clear a couple years back in the Revel Speaker Owners thread on AVS when 2 speaker engineers were contributing to the thread. No snark or disdain but they stated straight up that Kevin is product manager and a great one but he does not engineer any speakers. No biggie. Kevin also chimes in frequently on the thread.

Good luck in your search Chris. Should be a blast!

Now if you want to let go of those beat-up high mileage TADs at say a 75% discount I'm your man. ;)

Ah thanks for the message info! I had no idea. 

 

P.S. The TADs are up - https://superphonica.com/all-products/speakers/compact-speakers/tad-cr1-compact-reference-loudspeakers/


Founder of Audiophile Style and Superphonica

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12 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Just to throw out a name I've always been curious about but have never actually heard, there's Rockport.

 

Or there's this from @PeterSt and his speaker business partner Bert:

 

Orelo.JPG

 

Or these, from a boutique manufacturer named Oswalds Mill Audio (I've heard a pair of their speakers from much further down in the line, sounded nice):

 

Monarch.jpg

Imperia_walnut_setup.jpg

Rockport is near the top of my list. 


Founder of Audiophile Style and Superphonica

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6 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I expected several other manufacturer's names to come up

Like maybe Magico?  What is it about your TAD CR1 that needs improvement?


NUC7PJYH/AL --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10/HDPLEX 200W/HDPLEX 400W DC-ATX --> ISO REGEN/LPS-1.2 --> iFi iDSD Micro --> Focal CMS50's 

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3 hours ago, Milt99 said:

Just to clear up a common misconception, Kevin Voecks is not a speaker designer. He's the head of development.

This was made clear a couple years back in the Revel Speaker Owners thread on AVS when 2 speaker engineers were contributing to the thread. No snark or disdain but they stated straight up that Kevin is product manager and a great one but he does not engineer any speakers. No biggie. Kevin also chimes in frequently on the thread.

Good luck in your search Chris. Should be a blast!

Now if you want to let go of those beat-up high mileage TADs at say a 75% discount I'm your man. ;)

 

Sorry, this is not true. 

 

Kevin's roles/title may have changed over the last couple of years to focus less on design, but he was absolutely part of the design team that designed the Salons mentioned in this thread and other Revel speakers (they use a "team approach" at Revel for design since they have so many resources).  

 

https://www.stereophile.com/interviews/608kev/index.html

https://www.stereophile.com/content/revel-salon-loudspeaker-visit-revel-factory

 

Kevin was Chief Engineer at Revel when the company was started:

https://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/89/index.html


Home: UltraRendu (Roon) + LPS-1.2 | Berkeley Alpha USB | Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 | Jeff Rowland Coherence II Series 2 | Blue Circle Audio BC202 | Raidho XT-1 | 2 x Revel Performa3 B112 subwoofers (Sablon Reserva usb+ethernet+power cords/MG Audio Planus 3 cables/GIK Acoustic room treatments/Stillpoints/Blue Circle Conditioners). Headphones: Cavalli Liquid Carbon > HD800/Meze 99 

 

Desktop at Work: Iso Regen + LPS-1 > Schiit Eitr > Schiit Bifrost Multibit | Luminous Audio Axiom II pre | Job 225 amp | Scansonic MK-5 monitors | Elac S10 sub

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