Help CA Find New Speakers

[rando]

[Page break >> going back to quote the message you were responding to = ?

 

@Superdad Ah, one of those budding architects I referred to.  At least you stopped short of suggesting he burrow down through the foundation.  Wonder how cool and stable the temps are another 10' down well below the frost line?

[Ralf11]

sand works -- but there are other ways to dampen a wall that have less collateral risk

 

Sdad has good advice in his thread - many, many things to do to the walls and behind them

 

Handbook of Acoustics is a must read

[wgscott]

Since this is CA, why not go all in on computer-controlled audio?  Active full-range speakers like the top-of-the-line Dynaudio (or better options, if they exist), digital programmable crossovers, room/speaker correction to give a perfect room response, etc.  Take the computer part of computer audio to its unapologetic extreme.  It's your brand, after all!

[The Computer Audiophile]

22 minutes ago, wgscott said:

Since this is CA, why not go all in on computer-controlled audio?  Active full-range speakers like the top-of-the-line Dynaudio (or better options, if they exist), digital programmable crossovers, room/speaker correction to give a perfect room response, etc.  Take the computer part of computer audio to its unapologetic extreme.  It's your brand, after all!

Wow, now that sounds fun!

 

I’d love recommendations on this as well. 

 

Just seems like the speakers available aren’t as “high end” as the passives. I’m probably wrong and would love to be!

[The Computer Audiophile]

Would love @mitchco‘s advice on the complete system like Bill mentioned above  and some passive options. 

 

@Jud what say you, Vandersteen?

[maurice]

 

LXmini

LXmini+2

LXstudio

 

www.linkwitzlab.com

[esldude]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Would love @mitchco‘s advice on the complete system like Bill mentioned above  and some passive options. 

 

@Jud what say you, Vandersteen?

That would have been my suggestion as well.  Go active.  From your other comments I took it that you didn't want to go in that direction. 

 

Sal's suggestion is a good one, the JBL M2's.  They have a dedicated amp, but can be used with other amps.  It is a complete system however that includes their amp, their DSP, and speakers.  

 

Should one suggest a 5 channel system has some advantages since there is streaming of multi-channel recordings available?

 

 

[PeterG]

On 8/4/2018 at 6:56 AM, ShawnC said:

Chris, you should try a Rel Subwoofer with your current set up and your future speakers.  With their unique connection method directly from your amplifier, their there to extend those few low end Hz your speakers can't do.   Essential just pressurizing your room.  Whatever you choose for speakers will be great, this is just an add on feature to any speaker system.  Plus, you know where to get them locally.  If you want to borrow my subwoofer to try it out, your welcome to it.  Good luck

+1

 

Chris--your original post calls for full range speakers--it all depends on how you define "full".  As Shawn suggests, I'm not sure there is such a thing without a sub.  RELs are super, as are the new B&W DB series.

[mitchco]

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Would love @mitchco‘s advice on the complete system like Bill mentioned above  and some passive options. 

 

 

Yes, Bill is right on the money. Really hard to beat an all in one active solution with on-board DSP.

- the DSP is so good now it can control the overall directivity of the loudspeaker - typically a cardioid response to avoid the inevitable speaker boundary interference issues that we all face in our rooms.

- modern waveguide technology to avoid the ever narrowing response in the top octave (10 kHz to 20 kHz) See link SBIR link above and scroll down to the "bookshelf" speaker response to show both speaker boundary interference patterns and narrowing HF directivity at 12 kHz.

- linear phase response or time aligned, so that all direct sound arrives at ones ear at the same time.

- response to 20 Hz in a small package - some would argue no sub required. 

- the on board ability to tune the tone to one's preferred frequency response.

 

Here is a quick snapshot of one of those "all in one" speakers frequency and phase response measured in-room 1 meter away, with the back of the speaker close (40 cm) to the front wall:

 

 

Full range response from 20 Hz to 24 kHz. Fat phase response down to my rooms standing wave at 31 Hz. No SBIR issues. These are largish bookshelf speakers on 24" stands. Analog and digital in, pro or consumer switchable sensitivity with simple room boundary and tone controls that are effective. Took me about 10 minutes to  dial it in to my preferred tonal response using those two controls... Sounds as good as it measures ?  Passive speakers won't be able to get by the SBIR, letalone the other benefits listed... PS Review coming on this speaker....

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Now I feel like I need two systems!

 

i love DACs, but an active system with DSP makes a traditional DAC irrelevant. Given how many people still rely on traditional DACs there’s no way I can have a single active system and still write about external DACs. 

 

Ahhhhhhhh.  First world problems. 

 

Would love it if I could find a way to do this. 

[wgscott]

Sorry I don't have anything more specific to suggest, but if the commercial offerings for active speakers are a compromise, why not commission your favorite boutique speaker builder to make you something really innovative, i.e, better than the current state-of-the-art?  I wonder if you could even have speakers with a push-button switch to allow you to toggle between passive and active crossovers?  

[Kal Rubinson]

20 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Now I feel like I need two systems!

 

i love DACs, but an active system with DSP makes a traditional DAC irrelevant. Given how many people still rely on traditional DACs there’s no way I can have a single active system and still write about external DACs. 

Welcome to the club.  If you take your professional responsibilities seriously (as you do), it can constrain what you might do as a private individual.  

[Hugo9000]

48 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Now I feel like I need two systems!

 

i love DACs, but an active system with DSP makes a traditional DAC irrelevant. Given how many people still rely on traditional DACs there’s no way I can have a single active system and still write about external DACs. 

 

Ahhhhhhhh.  First world problems. 

 

Would love it if I could find a way to do this. 

I suppose you could have a really fine active system as your main, and a very good headphone system as a secondary, which could be used for evaluating DACs.  There is a huge readership out there who use headphones, as you're already aware, of course.  

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, Kal Rubinson said:

Welcome to the club.  If you take your professional responsibilities seriously (as you do), it can constrain what you might do as a private individual.  

 

Very true Kal. 

 

 

 

28 minutes ago, Hugo9000 said:

I suppose you could have a really fine active system as your main, and a very good headphone system as a secondary, which could be used for evaluating DACs.  There is a huge readership out there who use headphones, as you're already aware, of course.  

 

Very true as well. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, wgscott said:

Sorry I don't have anything more specific to suggest, but if the commercial offerings for active speakers are a compromise, why not commission your favorite boutique speaker builder to make you something really innovative, i.e, better than the current state-of-the-art?  I wonder if you could even have speakers with a push-button switch to allow you to toggle between passive and active crossovers?  

That sounds incredible but a voice in my head says it ain’t gonna happen. 

[udis]

Hey Chris

 

I recommend to have a listen to;

Raidho D1.1 - I own 

Joseph Audio Pulsars

Alta Audio Celesta FRM-2

 

[esldude]

I don't know which brand mitchco is about to review.  If you are open to the idea, here is one I'd have a short list. 

 

https://www.kiiaudio.com/

 

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/kii-audio-three

 

You'll want the BXT modules for a full range setup I think.   This is the sort of innovative product that will eventually become the norm for high performing speakers using DSP, beamforming and such to do what no passive design possibly can.  

 

Kal's reviewed them for Stereophile.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/kii-audio-three-loudspeaker

 

The Dutch&Dutch 8c would also fall into this new category of modern speaker. 

https://dutchdutch.com/8c/

 

[rando]

I'll come out against an active system.  You could replace it in Germany every year for the foreseeable future.  Maybe even have reason to before the manufacture timeline is met.  Eschew but review would be a forward thinking policy where this developing segment is concerned.  

 

 

[Superdad]

9 minutes ago, rando said:

Eschew but review...

 

Very clever, as ever...

[jabbr]

On 8/3/2018 at 8:07 PM, The Computer Audiophile said:

Hi Guys - It’s time for me to make a change. As much as I love the Andrew Jones’ designed TAD CR1s I’ve been using for years, I’m ready to move on. 

 

Given all the options available and the knowledge of members of the CA Community, I’m asking for help and opinions. 

 

I have an an idea what I want but I won’t say because I don’t want to steer the conversation. 

 

- I need a full range speaker 

- Compatible with a range of amplifiers

- Dont get hung up on price when offering opinions. 

 

I'd honestly love to hear from as many people as possible and hear why they say what they say. 

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Estelon .. oh wait, not compatible with any amplifier...

[esldude]

1 hour ago, rando said:

I'll come out against an active system.  You could replace it in Germany every year for the foreseeable future.  Maybe even have reason to before the manufacture timeline is met.  Eschew but review would be a forward thinking policy where this developing segment is concerned.  

 

 

Would you have applied this idea to the first 15 years of DACs when the improvements were rapid?  I would hope not. 

[GregWormald]

I have a pair of CX4F Mark 2 active speakers from SGR's Convex range and they satisfy me every time I listen.

They have passive models in the Voyager range. I haven't heard them.

Further info at www.sgrloudspeakers.com.

 

Harry and Stuart have been unfailingly helpful and generous with their time and now have dealers in the USA.

[rando]

4 hours ago, esldude said:

Would you have applied this idea to the first 15 years of DACs when the improvements were rapid?  I would hope not. 

 

There is a local illustration I'd like to use here.  

 

Two bulls are standing on a hill looking down at a field of heiffers.  A young male entertaining the situation for the first time in life gathers what they are up to.  Runs over towards them making a show of bucking and thrusting.  Shouts at them how fully he is going to make off with that saucer eyed one on the leading edge of the field paying him attention.  Without missing a beat the first bull replied, "Why run down the hill and take one when you can walk down and have them all?"

[firedog]

7 hours ago, esldude said:

I don't know which brand mitchco is about to review.  If you are open to the idea, here is one I'd have a short list. 

 

https://www.kiiaudio.com/

 

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/kii-audio-three

 

You'll want the BXT modules for a full range setup I think.   This is the sort of innovative product that will eventually become the norm for high performing speakers using DSP, beamforming and such to do what no passive design possibly can.  

 

Kal's reviewed them for Stereophile.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/kii-audio-three-loudspeaker

 

The Dutch&Dutch 8c would also fall into this new category of modern speaker. 

https://dutchdutch.com/8c/

 

 You don't need the BXT for "full range". Interestingly, the published specs have  been changed from 20hz at the low end to "only" 30hz. But the Kiis without the BXT have been measured as "full range".

You do need the BTX if you want to play very loudly or to fill a large room. It  also adds a significant amount to the maximum SPL output of the system. I'm sure dynamics for something like an orchestral piece are improved with the added bass module, and bass distortion at low frequencies/high output is surely reduced. Apparently the modules also further reduce various room interactions (ceiling and floor). 

[esldude]

1 hour ago, rando said:

 

There is a local illustration I'd like to use here.  

 

Two bulls are standing on a hill looking down at a field of heiffers.  A young male entertaining the situation for the first time in life gathers what they are up to.  Runs over towards them making a show of bucking and thrusting.  Shouts at them how fully he is going to make off with that saucer eyed one on the leading edge of the field paying him attention.  Without missing a beat the first bull replied, "Why run down the hill and take one when you can walk down and have them all?"

That probably wasn't nearly the comeback remark you think it was.  It actually could sound like you agree with me. ?

 

No hard feelings about it either way.  I just don't think you can future proof such situations.  You'll have to decide when to jump in and start taking part somewhere.  Waiting till it all settles down might take a generation.