Help CA Find New Speakers

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Guys - It’s time for me to make a change. As much as I love the Andrew Jones’ designed TAD CR1s I’ve been using for years, I’m ready to move on. 

 

Given all the options available and the knowledge of members of the CA Community, I’m asking for help and opinions. 

 

I have an an idea what I want but I won’t say because I don’t want to steer the conversation. 

 

- I need a full range speaker 

- Compatible with a range of amplifiers

- Dont get hung up on price when offering opinions. 

 

I'd honestly love to hear from as many people as possible and hear why they say what they say. 

 

Thanks in advance!

[The Computer Audiophile]

13 minutes ago, sdolezalek said:

Chris:  Is this still for the same listening room?  From your photos it looks almost square, roughly 15 by 15 feet, with limited wall treatments,  if I had to guess.  Does that suggest you will want to stay with more moderately sized speakers?  

 

For now the room is about 15x17 but I could extend it larger. Not sure yet. Room treatments aren’t out of the question because only I have a say in what goes on in my listening room ?

 

most problematic is the lowish ceiling. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 hours ago, firedog said:

Speaker format/size matter to you?

 

I’m really open and can even adjust my room to fit a speaker if needed. That’s the beauty of this as a career -

 

“Looks like I need to knock down a wall honey”

 

”OK”

 

?

[The Computer Audiophile]

One of the things I’m concerned about is speakers that are mainstream vs more esoteric. 

 

One one one hand it’s great to have speakers to which people can relate. One the other hand some esoteric speakers may have better performance or value for the money. 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, Sal1950 said:

 

Thanks Sal - I realize my statement may have been confusing and my choice of words ambiguous. 

 

When i say esoteric I mean more off the radar. Mainstream to me are brands that people can relate to, go hear at a local shop or buy something in the product line higher or lower. Mainstream usually means a full array of products etc... At least this is my use of the term. 

 

Some esoterics are very pricey but others offer more value because, even though they’re expensive, the markup isn’t astronomical. 

 

Thanks for the suggestions thus far. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, Sal1950 said:

I think that's a first for us, we agreeing on something.  LOL

I would warn Chris on the Giva line, I know personally someone that has had reliability problems with the in-house built drivers and less than stellar customer service over the continued failures.     Just sayin

I hate to do this but I have to rule out the fantastic Vivid loudspeakers. I just can’t stand to look at them. Got to be honest. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, rickca said:

Focal Stella Utopia EM Evo $65K.

 

I believe the Stella is $65k per speaker right?

[The Computer Audiophile]

8 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

Plasmatronics

Helium may get expensive as it gets more scarce. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, rickca said:

Of course!  You said don't get hung up on price.  ?   I think the EM technology trickled down from the Grande Utopia is very significant.  

Yes, don’t get hung up on price. Just wanted to make sure we were on the same page that $65k was each ?

[The Computer Audiophile]

I’m looking hard at the Utopia EM Evo speakers. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Would love to hear from @esldude for a recommendation. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 hours ago, esldude said:

Not sure why I was singled out.  I don't have experience with lots of the recent top contenders. 

 

Maybe I'm brainwashed, but I'm convinced Harman's methodology is sound and onto something important.  Now I knew of it for several years, but having heard some of their designs is convincing.  The LSR305's of JBL (Harman division) are stunningly good for peanuts.  Revel's are that too though pricier peanuts.  So considering you want something conventional mainstream, I would suggest whichever of the Revel speakers in your price and size range deserve strong consideration and investigation.  Even then speakers are personal, and you should hear them in person enough to know if they tickle your music bone or not.  I would say the various Harman sourced speakers may not quite be best at any particular aspect, but seem to score 90% on almost all aspects.  And the result is often hear it, love it, and forget about speakers as they get out of the way.  You'll not revel (pun intended) in micro-detail, or explosive dynamics,  etc. etc. What you will find is it is easy to revel in the music itself.  Normally  you'll not be fighting deficiencies in the speaker to get that result.  With many speakers they have a couple or three fantastic aspects, and need some careful or unusual setup to get the best of them.  Revel's will respond to careful setup, but aren't unbalanced in their positive attributes. 

 

One I've not heard were I you that would get some attention is Magico.  I think at the ultimate end of fidelity even if everything else is done right, a cone speaker must have a great enclosure.  I think Magico does well in this regard.  Though note I have never heard them, just seen their designs.  I've read the measured results at Stereophile and Soundstage.  I would listen to something in the Q or S series. 

 

So why no panel suggestions?  Well you've indicated you wanted to stay somewhat mainstream.  I assume you'll review some gear with them.  All panels have their peccadilloes.  

 

I would also note your room isn't far from square.  For reviewing things maybe too much bother, but a distributed  multiple subwoofer system can really help in the low end.  Maybe even to the point you could go a step down on the main speakers and spend extra on distributed woofers.  Dallas Justice can probably offer good advice on that.  I did see you said you wanted full range.  But I don't know if any full range speaker could give as good a low end and as even a low end (which is very important) as having multiple subwoofers. 

Great advice. Thanks. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, rando said:

How important is it to you they be visually stirring, maestoso? 

 

Would you audition them behind a curtain (of darkness) without any bias towards the manufacturer or the personalities involved with them?

 

I just can’t do Vivid because of the looks. As great as they are, I can’t do it. Thus, looks matter. 

 

Also, personalities matter. I won’t buy a speaker from a manufacturer that’s a jerk or won’t support his products. Part of what I’m doing is also telling the CA community that I’ve done my due diligence and support company XYZ and it’s products enough that I purchased speaker ABC. It’s an endorsement that I’m paying for rather than the usual way endorsements work. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

5 minutes ago, Hugo9000 said:

I think you owe it to yourself to at least investigate the KEF Muon!

 

https://www.avsforum.com/kef-muon-mk-2-vpi-titan-at-capital-audiofest-2016/

 

Only $10,000 US to upgrade an original pair to Mk 2 status, which includes the drivers, crossovers, and the technician flying to wherever the owner is in the world!  That's great support! 

 

 

(I'm going to mention for the record that I can't stand Andrew Jones.  He gets so much mileage out of having worked for KEF for a while, and all over the internet, people give him credit for things like the KEF Uni-Q.  Interesting that the patents only named Laurie Fincham, and that wherever Jones goes, he copies things KEF is known for, down to using a name like Uni-Fi on those Elac knockoffs on KEF's Q series.  Anywho, I'd love for insiders at KEF to speak out about him, but I doubt they would ever bother giving him even more publicity than he already gets.  That TAD monitor looks an awful lot like a KEF Reference 201 haha, including the curved cabinet.  Then he goes back to boxy designs after KEF did that.  He seems to play follow the leader, while his internet fans give him so many accolades as being an innovator of some sort.  I'm sure his "designs" are good, he did after all work with the masters for long enough to learn a few things.  Oh, and in case it is the manufacturers insisting they want to copy KEF, he could always refuse to do it, and come up with something fresh, especially since he's supposed to be such a brilliant designer and innovator) /SOAPBOX

Wow. No need to argue other than to say there’s a lot of misinformation and insinuating there. 

 

I’m willing to bet you’ve never talked to him. He is humble enough to address each one of your points and give you a completely different take. 

 

Don’t all good designers learn from someone?

[The Computer Audiophile]

22 minutes ago, wgscott said:

Since this is CA, why not go all in on computer-controlled audio?  Active full-range speakers like the top-of-the-line Dynaudio (or better options, if they exist), digital programmable crossovers, room/speaker correction to give a perfect room response, etc.  Take the computer part of computer audio to its unapologetic extreme.  It's your brand, after all!

Wow, now that sounds fun!

 

I’d love recommendations on this as well. 

 

Just seems like the speakers available aren’t as “high end” as the passives. I’m probably wrong and would love to be!

[The Computer Audiophile]

Would love @mitchco‘s advice on the complete system like Bill mentioned above  and some passive options. 

 

@Jud what say you, Vandersteen?

[The Computer Audiophile]

Now I feel like I need two systems!

 

i love DACs, but an active system with DSP makes a traditional DAC irrelevant. Given how many people still rely on traditional DACs there’s no way I can have a single active system and still write about external DACs. 

 

Ahhhhhhhh.  First world problems. 

 

Would love it if I could find a way to do this. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, Kal Rubinson said:

Welcome to the club.  If you take your professional responsibilities seriously (as you do), it can constrain what you might do as a private individual.  

 

Very true Kal. 

 

 

 

28 minutes ago, Hugo9000 said:

I suppose you could have a really fine active system as your main, and a very good headphone system as a secondary, which could be used for evaluating DACs.  There is a huge readership out there who use headphones, as you're already aware, of course.  

 

Very true as well. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, wgscott said:

Sorry I don't have anything more specific to suggest, but if the commercial offerings for active speakers are a compromise, why not commission your favorite boutique speaker builder to make you something really innovative, i.e, better than the current state-of-the-art?  I wonder if you could even have speakers with a push-button switch to allow you to toggle between passive and active crossovers?  

That sounds incredible but a voice in my head says it ain’t gonna happen. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

8 minutes ago, Milt99 said:

TAD speakers are an extremely tough act to follow.

I would recommend Revel Salon2 speakers.

I've heard them a lot and bought Studio2s based on the Salon2s.

 

I've never read a less than enthusiastic review of either the Salon2s or Studio2s.

I agree, it's a tough act to follow but I'm digging the input from everyone. really cool. 

 

I expected several other manufacturer's names to come up, but they haven't. No worries from me, just something I noticed.

 

Yeah, Revel is really good. Kevin Voecks is a damn good designer. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

17 minutes ago, Milt99 said:

Just to clear up a common misconception, Kevin Voecks is not a speaker designer. He's the head of development.

This was made clear a couple years back in the Revel Speaker Owners thread on AVS when 2 speaker engineers were contributing to the thread. No snark or disdain but they stated straight up that Kevin is product manager and a great one but he does not engineer any speakers. No biggie. Kevin also chimes in frequently on the thread.

Good luck in your search Chris. Should be a blast!

Now if you want to let go of those beat-up high mileage TADs at say a 75% discount I'm your man.

Ah thanks for the message info! I had no idea. 

 

P.S. The TADs are up - https://superphonica.com/all-products/speakers/compact-speakers/tad-cr1-compact-reference-loudspeakers/

[The Computer Audiophile]

12 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Just to throw out a name I've always been curious about but have never actually heard, there's Rockport.

 

Or there's this from @PeterSt and his speaker business partner Bert:

 

 

Or these, from a boutique manufacturer named Oswalds Mill Audio (I've heard a pair of their speakers from much further down in the line, sounded nice):

 

Rockport is near the top of my list. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, wdw said:

Has to be the Magico M3’s.....in truth not heard them but have the Q3’s and based on these I am inclined to believe the very positive reviews of the M3.   

When I purchased my CR1s the other option I considered was Q3s. Both great speakers. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 hours ago, octaviars said:

 

As you say the CR1 is a really good speaker perhaps one of the best I have listened to and a really good one to evaluate other equipment with.

 

Have you heard of the German brand Kaiser Acoustics? Their Kawero model is one really good sounding loudspeaker often one of the best at shows here in Europe. 

 

https://www.kaiser-acoustics.com/en/speakers/speakers.html

 

I have owned different Focals (listened to the new EVO but I dont feel that they get up to TAD standard), KEF and others but I have settled down with a complete TAD system. I do feel that TAD speakers sound the best with their own electronics but that is just my opinion ? 

 

If you like CR1 have you not thougt about the bigger R1? 

Thanks for the Kaiser link. Hadn’t heard of those. 

 

I’ve heard the R1s many times and like them as well. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

I'm so tempted by Sound Lab but I just don't think I can make them work. Same with the new Maggie 30.7.