Help CA Find New Speakers

[firedog]

12 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Hi Guys - It’s time for me to make a change. As much as I love the Andrew Jones’ designed TAD CR1s I’ve been using for years, I’m ready to move on. 

 

Given all the options available and the knowledge of members of the CA Community, I’m asking for help and opinions. 

 

I have an an idea what I want but I won’t say because I don’t want to steer the conversation. 

 

- I need a full range speaker 

- Compatible with a range of amplifiers

- Dont get hung up on price when offering opinions. 

 

I'd honestly love to hear from as many people as possible and hear why they say what they say. 

 

Thanks in advance!

Speaker format/size matter to you?

 

[firedog]

I've always been intrigued by line array type speakers.  You might want to check some out.
There's the Bob Carver, Wisdom, and some others around that are considered top notch. 

 

The big Infinity's I heard years ago were the most realistic thing I'd ever heard (don't know what I'd think of them now).

In that vein, the upcoming PSAudio speakers look interesting. There will be 3 sizes. The biggest ones will probably be too big for your situation, but the middle size ones might do the trick. They are supposedly going to be out in a year (maybe). 

https://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/sensaitionalism/ 

[firedog]

7 hours ago, esldude said:

I don't know which brand mitchco is about to review.  If you are open to the idea, here is one I'd have a short list. 

 

https://www.kiiaudio.com/

 

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/kii-audio-three

 

You'll want the BXT modules for a full range setup I think.   This is the sort of innovative product that will eventually become the norm for high performing speakers using DSP, beamforming and such to do what no passive design possibly can.  

 

Kal's reviewed them for Stereophile.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/kii-audio-three-loudspeaker

 

The Dutch&Dutch 8c would also fall into this new category of modern speaker. 

https://dutchdutch.com/8c/

 

 You don't need the BXT for "full range". Interestingly, the published specs have  been changed from 20hz at the low end to "only" 30hz. But the Kiis without the BXT have been measured as "full range".

You do need the BTX if you want to play very loudly or to fill a large room. It  also adds a significant amount to the maximum SPL output of the system. I'm sure dynamics for something like an orchestral piece are improved with the added bass module, and bass distortion at low frequencies/high output is surely reduced. Apparently the modules also further reduce various room interactions (ceiling and floor). 

[firedog]

1 hour ago, esldude said:

Yes, the measurement from Kal's review pair without the BXT.  The low end hump is a measurement artifact. Pretty much full range. 

 

But you wouldn't want to handicap Chris' new setup now would you?

I think Chris would really like the Kiis. But since he's had those TAD monitors for years, I'm guessing he won't go in the monitor direction again. Those are really good speakers. Switching from those will probably push you in a different direction. 

 

I wonder if Kii changed the specs of the Kii Three just to be conservative, or if they changed the DSP to prevent full extension down at 20 hz to prevent a little distortion....

[firedog]

13 hours ago, semente said:

 

I haven't listened to the kiis but from my experience I wouldn't think that a  standmount with 6.5'' bass drivers can compete with large speakers with big drivers. Yes, the response does go down and flat but still...

 

Perhaps @Kal Rubinson can give his opinion on how the kiis compare to his large speakers low-end and dynamics wise (unless he's signed a non-disclosure agreement with the magazine or manufacturer).

 

My reference for low-bass and sub-bass is the sealed bass bin of an old pair of 801Fs and prefer selad to ported. The Reference Ones were the best speaker currently being sold that I have listened to.

The Kiis have quality low bass that will be plenty for most people. Pretty loud and powerful. The can do a pipe organ or the latest Beyonce with no issues.  More bass than many other speakers, including some much larger floorstanders.

 

That said, the medium size drivers can only do so much. They will not give you the kind of low bass you get in a large powerful subwoofer setup. Your hear the bass, it isn't the kind that you physically feel. If you want that and to play low bass very loudly in a big room, they probably wouldn't do the trick for you. Maybe the new module changes that. 

[firedog]

4 hours ago, semente said:

I would think from theory and experience that a speaker with such small drivers in such a small cabinet would not be able to compete with a large full-range speaker with large drivers.

Yes, but the DSP functions of the speaker allow maximum excursion of the woofers with little distortion, something the same woofer can't do in a traditional system.

So no, it can't compete with really large woofers with lots of power behind them, but you get much more bass than you'd expect from just what you see in the specs about size. See Kal's review. 

Devialet units can do a similar "trick" with their SAM system controlling your speakers - you get noticeably more bass output than you would from the same speaker powered by the same Devialet, but without SAM.

[firedog]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Yes!

I have a short list. Down to three speakers. More to come. 

 

Plus, I need to sell my TAD CR1s. It makes writing that big check a bit easier :~)

I can't imagine you will have a problem selling the TADs. 

[firedog]

Or you could get some of these:

[firedog]

1 hour ago, Neal.Audio said:

 

Many people choose both REL and JL. Mostly because they're unfamiliar with the Vandersteen Sub Threes. 

 

REL lacks room correction, and JL's implementation of it digitally perfomed and often doesn't give the best result. The Sub Threes crossover network unloads the mains under 80 hz by 6 db per octave, bringing a clearer signal to the mains and greater output to the mains. The room correction is performed exactly the same as the other high end Vandersteens (Quatros, Sevens, soon to be Fives, manually based on seating position) using a decibel meter. Though the floorstanders use 100Hz crossover while the Sub Threes use 80Hz). It's the best kept secret in all of high end audio imo, and any speakers can benefit. Especially in smaller rooms where bass can quickly become unruly.

 

I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that all Vandersteen prices go up April 2nd.

 

 

Are you a dealer? If so, you need to make it clear in your name or posts or displayed sig - that’s the rule here. Also, you shouldn’t be promoting products you sell. Answering questions asked about them is okay; using a question about another product to promote yours isn’t.

[firedog]

4 hours ago, Kal Rubinson said:

For me, the motivation is to satisfy a perverse curiosity.   Always, interesting.  

But you have experienced professional reviewers like Steve Gutenberg who love horns and will tell you how they are the best, most real, most live sounding method of reproduction. That's one of the things about audio-for every two audiophiles, there are three opinions. 

[firedog]

On 6/21/2019 at 1:22 AM, Sal1950 said:

Nope,  I knew early on my recommendation of JBL M2 wouldn't fly.

Any kind of horn would have too big a negative effect on his cred's here on this uber-audiophile website.

Wouldn't matter if the Angels from heaven themselves delivered them.

Okay Sal and Chris, This was the first time I heard of these, and looked them up. Very interesting. There’s also the “audiophile” version the  JBL4637, which is pretty much the same speaker, but passive, so you can run it with a standard amp. And it looks more like a home speaker than the M2.
Have you guys actually heard these? What’d you think? I’d love to hear a pair. 

[firedog]

20 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I believe the consumer version of these is the K2 S9900. However, then you lose all the gooodness of the external crossover and amp and dsp. 

 

 

 

https://www.musicdirect.com/speakers/JBL-K2-S9900-Tower-Speakers

Actually, I was thinking of these, which are pretty much a direct copy of the M2, passive, and built to look more like a home speaker.

https://www.musicdirect.com/speakers/JBL-4367-Tower-Speakers

[firedog]

22 minutes ago, 4est said:

Oh, I can see how. It would seem that many of today's speakers lack the oomph that they have. The notion that you can DSP to make a plastic 8" sound like a nice paper 15" is ludicrous IMO. Klipsch are very engaging.

You are correct.
But DSP can do some amazing stuff. Look at the Devialet site where they show how their SAM mapping of speakers changes the output: Speakers gain from 3 to even 20hz of extra low end extension, and distortion is reduced. That's all from digital crossovers with the ability to push the drivers exactly to their maximum point before they  begin to distort, and not further. Can't do that with a conventional amp speaker setup.
So  you can't make an 8" sound like a 15", but you can definitely get it closer.

As for Klipsch spearkers, I think a lot of that live sound is also due to the characteristics of the horns.

[firedog]

Those were the days of "I wish I had $250 for large Advents"'; and  $350 for JBL L100's is more than I'll ever be able to afford. (That's what I remember the prices as, anyway). I had smaller Advents and did lust after those JBLs. Probably wouldn't like that model today, but they could rock out.