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Here's a drive I've not seen mentioned and wonder if anyone has a comment or two to offer.

1816977385_ScreenShot2020-06-04at1_44_21PM.thumb.png.ebeec9f0639ceb88bc59fbbcb3f77c3d.png

I'm using a i3 ROON ROOK server (non-Nucleus, assembled at home as per Chris's instruction set..Thanks Chris!)

 

My current music drive is an external 1Tb USB mounted Samsung TS SSD drive...reaching capacity so bumping up to the 2Tb T5.

Assuming there aren't any sonic penalties for a USB mounted drive but perhaps there are differing options.  All thoughts welcome.

Best

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  • 1 month later...

Well my computers in the shop with Bios issues.   But  I will send pictures of My SSDs.    Two Micron 100GB P300 SLC Sata 3;'s! They are wonderfully musical.  I read a few years back about how SLC sounds best.  I also found serious isolation to improve the sound. Each of them sits on a single Mad Scientist Audio Tungsten Carbide Blackpod Nano footer.  I brace them so they balance on a single point.

 

Noticeably more involving sound in all ways. 1 is my music system boot drive with Jplay femto, Audiophile Optimizer 3, Process Lasso, and Fidelizer 8.6. I have also found bracing them further with a solid metal block, copper bar stock,  further kills any vibration in them.

 

Also pure current unfettered 5v of DC to each one from a Cuinas Audio super cap power supply. Awesome, beats my uptone 1.2 and puts out at 4A or more of current. It runs both Microns and a JCAT femto USB card. 

 

 You can hear the difference each of those improvements made.  

 

Just wish they had a 500GB version.  One of these days I will just buy a 200GB.  That is as largest thy make, but they are a couple hundred refurbed. Other priorites at the moment and I can just barely make do with those two. I got the 100GB for less than 1 bill for both.   They are magic.

 

I would love to hear someones idea on the next best way to go to get substantially more storage space for my music

 

Happy Listening,

 

Jgwtriode

t

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17 hours ago, Jgwtriode said:

Noticeably more involving sound in all ways. 1 is my music system boot drive with Jplay femto, Audiophile Optimizer 3, Process Lasso, and Fidelizer 8.6. I have also found bracing them further with a solid metal block, copper bar stock,  further kills any vibration in them.

 

When using them in a desktop PC with metal drive bays, make sure that both the metalwork and especially the case of the SSD/HDD itself , has as low as possible resistance measured to the case of the SMPS and the earth contact of the mains IEC socket .  

 This may result in a very worthwhile improvement in distortion and soundstage.

One and a half (Gary)  got me to try this by measuring the voltage (mV scale) between the cases and the PSU metalwork.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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On 6/4/2020 at 4:47 PM, wdw said:

Here's a drive I've not seen mentioned and wonder if anyone has a comment or two to offer.

1816977385_ScreenShot2020-06-04at1_44_21PM.thumb.png.ebeec9f0639ceb88bc59fbbcb3f77c3d.png

I'm using a i3 ROON ROOK server (non-Nucleus, assembled at home as per Chris's instruction set..Thanks Chris!)

 

My current music drive is an external 1Tb USB mounted Samsung TS SSD drive...reaching capacity so bumping up to the 2Tb T5.

Assuming there aren't any sonic penalties for a USB mounted drive but perhaps there are differing options.  All thoughts welcome.

Best

 

Looks like you have purchased the drive already.  But if not, for pennies more, you can get the T7 version, which i nearly twice as fast.

 

https://seekingtech.com/samsung-portable-ssd-t5-vs-samsung-portable-ssd-t7-touch/

 

https://www.amazon.ca/stores/page/15C7664A-B741-4AAA-AD93-01B7B0E02D50?store_ref=SB_A04525472KG6QUX59V7RP&aaxitk=Yj.107SlCfaEG6ZVVCHuug&hsa_cr_id=5830030690601&lp_asins=B082YHBYNJ,B0874XN4D8,B0874YDQ9K&lp_mat_key=samsung portable ssd&lp_query=Samsung T7 portable SSD&lp_slot=desktop-hsa-3psl&ref_=sbx_be_s_3psl_mbd

 

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I have a Samsung T7 mounted as an external SSD to my Syno 918+. The music is on the Internal storage, I have Roon mounted on the T7, works well as Roon Core streaming to other Roon end points.

2ch: LP12/Ittok/DVxx2 MK2, Mac Mini (Audirvana+), Auralic Vega G2.1, Oppo 95, ME25, ME850, MG3.7iR, DWM, Pio 508XDA, AppleTV, Sangean WFT-3D

HT: Sony 85X9500G, Oppo 93, AppleTV, Foxtel 4K, Rotel RSX-1065, Whatmough Synergy

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  • 8 months later...
On 7/24/2020 at 12:32 AM, Jgwtriode said:

Well my computers in the shop with Bios issues.   But  I will send pictures of My SSDs.    Two Micron 100GB P300 SLC Sata 3;'s! They are wonderfully musical.  I read a few years back about how SLC sounds best.  I also found serious isolation to improve the sound. Each of them sits on a single Mad Scientist Audio Tungsten Carbide Blackpod Nano footer.  I brace them so they balance on a single point.

 

Noticeably more involving sound in all ways. 1 is my music system boot drive with Jplay femto, Audiophile Optimizer 3, Process Lasso, and Fidelizer 8.6. I have also found bracing them further with a solid metal block, copper bar stock,  further kills any vibration in them.

 

Also pure current unfettered 5v of DC to each one from a Cuinas Audio super cap power supply. Awesome, beats my uptone 1.2 and puts out at 4A or more of current. It runs both Microns and a JCAT femto USB card. 

 

 You can hear the difference each of those improvements made.  

 

Just wish they had a 500GB version.  One of these days I will just buy a 200GB.  That is as largest thy make, but they are a couple hundred refurbed. Other priorites at the moment and I can just barely make do with those two. I got the 100GB for less than 1 bill for both.   They are magic.

 

I would love to hear someones idea on the next best way to go to get substantially more storage space for my music

 

Happy Listening,

 

Jgwtriode

t

SLC SATA 3. I found a 1TB version here.

https://www.amazon.com/Silicon-Power-Internal-Ultrabooks-Computers/dp/B07PHJCCY3

 

Is it similar or same tech? I'm looking for music storage and wish to go with SATA for using a LPS.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I haven't compared different SSDs for music in my Win 10 desktop, but in my living room system I've found that there is definitely a sound difference between them, even different models of the same brand. For example, I've been using a 1T Samsung 860 EVO with music files into a heavily modded Oppo 203. Been happy with it. A month ago I picked up its successor, the 870 EVO, a much faster drive, and loaded it with the same files. Both are in Inatec enclosures, with bubble wrap added inside, and connected to the Oppo with a WyWires Diamond USB cable. As I listened to the 870 over the first three weeks, some things didn't quite seem right with its SQ, so several days ago I made a comparison, also swapping between three Inateck enclosures to cover the two variables in play. The 860 definitely had more clarity and sense of drawing me in top to bottom. Thinking SSD burn in might be involved -- why not? -- I ran the 870 through my laptop continuously for a few days and then compared again tonight. No change. The 870 is going back. What I don't know is if my experience with the 870 is a one-off or representative of the model.

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All your storage device does is store a digital file, all your computer does is move that file from one place to another. How why or where does that file get changed? What you store is what you retrieve and ultimately play back on what ever audio interface you have. The only item of importance to the chain is the digital converters  - read below.

 

I have studio quality gear, various audio interfaces, digital converters, I have a half decent HiFi I also have half decent Studio Monitors. From a cheaper Behringer x32 mixer to a Sapphire Liquid 56 interface and sound analysers and u telling me its my SSDs and Computer that can alter improve or degrade the sound?

 

Seriously folks, you start with the digital converters, the pre amp out through a power amp to speakers. What else matters? The quality of the source audio track the sample bit rate. Does the cables matter, maybe but probably not. Does it matter your using phono or jacks and not XLR? Yes probably. 

 

Are you telling me if I store my tracks locally on my mixer/interface on a USB thob it would be in anyway different than a track transferred from the computer? the only thing that could make a difference is using balanced cables (XLR) from your audio interface device with the digital converters to your amps and decent proper speaker cable to your cabs (speakers) in my case, through a studio mixer if I am recording or mixing. 

 

In a recording studio they use higher sample rates to cancel out all those silly annoying noises, add in effects and then mixdown to a decent lower rate. 44 is clearly to low, 48 is good 50 would be perfect and 96 is used to mix/produce master. any higher is simply over kill. Film production will generally use a higher rate due to surround and the fact there are more streams, more info (bits) being transferred.

 

 

 

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@uselessoldman  I have two replies to your questions, assuming your question is genuine and your mind open (i.e., you're not trolling):

 

1) Do you listen with your ears or your intellect? And to the extent you do listen and the intellectual side of why there are differences in sound between all types of digital (and analog) gear matters to you -- for the most part it doesn't to me -- what conclusion(s) do you draw if the two -- ears and intellect -- don't match? 

 

2) Some others' thoughts about the general subject (mostly high level audio engineers, sound engineers, electrical engineers):

 

https://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/asking-the-right-questions/ (also the discussion)

https://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/purity-at-the-source/ (also the discussion)

https://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/damaging-digital/ (see paulsquirrel's comment)

 

http://thewelltemperedcomputer.unofficialmirrors.com/Intro/SQ/SoftwareInducedJitter.htm

https://www.jmaxwellusb.com/Articles/Computer-Audio-Basics.aspx

https://www.stereophile.com/reference/1093jitter/

https://www.stereophile.com/features/396bits/index.html

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, highstream said:

I haven't compared different SSDs for music in my Win 10 desktop, but in my living room system I've found that there is definitely a sound difference between them, even different models of the same brand. For example, I've been using a 1T Samsung 860 EVO with music files into a heavily modded Oppo 203. Been happy with it. A month ago I picked up its successor, the 870 EVO, a much faster drive, and loaded it with the same files. Both are in Inatec enclosures, with bubble wrap added inside, and connected to the Oppo with a WyWires Diamond USB cable. As I listened to the 870 over the first three weeks, some things didn't quite seem right with its SQ, so several days ago I made a comparison, also swapping between three Inateck enclosures to cover the two variables in play. The 860 definitely had more clarity and sense of drawing me in top to bottom. Thinking SSD burn in might be involved -- why not? -- I ran the 870 through my laptop continuously for a few days and then compared again tonight. No change. The 870 is going back. What I don't know is if my experience with the 870 is a one-off or representative of the model.

 

Interesting highstream. I'm looking for a music storage drive, SATA format and while I've been playing with combinations of drives, I've noted differences in sound when comparing drives and too my NAS. I've hung a 5GB Seagate USB spinner and then my NVMe M.2 USB Samsung 970 EVO plus followed by my NAS spinners. I can't declare a clear winner. The NAS to me has a different sound to it. I'd say less defined. Bass seemed to lose its texture. Wife is not liking the NAS. She thought it sounded noisy. It was interesting because she was loving the sound then I had switched storage drives to the NAS without her knowing. I have to revisit but I'd rather wish there was no difference. 

 

Are you using a separate LPS on your SATA drive?

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While all my components are plugged into a PS Audio P15 regenerator, the SATA drive (in an enclosure) itself gets its 5v from the Oppo. The run from the Oppo to a Lampi TRP dac is spdif and on the latter end is an iFi spdif iPurifier 2 powered by a Paul Hynes SR4 LPS. I had and may still have a Samsung NAS drive in my i-7 Win 10 desktop, but since I disassembled most of its better audio system, and the PC's otherwise been working well for quite some years, I haven't kept track. I do still have Project Lasso running though.

 

I have a Seagate external SSD picked up from Costco some time back that was worth a try, but it didn't sound all that good in my living room system. Cables do make a difference in that run between SATA and the Oppo, just like elsewhere. I share your sentiments about SSD sound quality. It makes upgrading in function or storage size a hassle. Enough that I have to deal with tubes!

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I think what I'll do is buy the Samsung 860 SATA. I have a HDPlex 300watt LPS coming my way. I can power the SATA HD from the LPS as well as the MB and USB PCIe card. Maybe then I can call my server complete. My digital gear is plugged into a 2KW BPT AC regenerator. Not sure if that made any difference as I have not critically listened to it. Too busy just enjoying the music ;)

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OK, highstream I have read all your links and even asked a few computer/music friends just to make sure I hadn't gone completely mad after all these lockdowns.

 

We are talking about a digital file, being transferred from a storage device to an external standalone DAC device. That chain includes multiple components, cables etc At no time is this a wav form, a sound wave its always a digital file. At no time can anything interfere with that file, at least the contents of what is being transferred only when it arrives, the timing. 

 

I would assume the user has a decent motherboard, a decent PSU and a computer setup that is fit for purpose not some junk build by some geezer they just happen to know. SO all that matters is the file is delivered complete and on time letting the DAC do its tricks. I am using a decent system, not new but when it was it was a good one, as good as you could get in the day with some upgrades along the way, but all components off the shelf. and yes I use good cables, VanDamme Neutrik etc

 

Let me tell you this. I have pro studio gear that runs from 48 to 192kHz, I use Pro Software to record mix and mixdown music, I am running effects (plugin vsts) outboard hardware that work in milliseconds. Latency is a big issue for me, low to record high to master. I would notice anything that was out of time, without exception. 

 

SO are you trying to tell me the system I have that makes the music you listen to isn't up to the job? Not only that, but the quality of the masters I have is significantly better than the final released copy cos not only do I have the masters of tracks I have the original multi-tracks before there even mixed down. I run XLR balanced from my DAC/audio interface to my powered Studio Monitors (made by Adams by the way). 

 

All I can say is you must be hearing things we can't. We have all sorts of tools/toys to correct imperfections pitch glitches noise etc we take it seriously to get the best sound on to the final mixdown albeit at a reduced sample rate from the original master and even that is a subjective contentious debate in the music "studio" industry, 48/96/192? 24/32 floating or not.

 

I understand the audiophile world is a commercial industry as is studio production. Everyone claims their gear is the best and better than the rest, floods youtube with dubious reviews and reviewers, If I spent what I had on the studio on my HiFi which is actually quite a decent one, it would rival most if not all. But the mixdowns are a distorted version, commercial if you like, nothing like the original masters and certainly nothing like the original recordings before we add in all the tolls and toys to fix the fixable. All this is done through a computer, we all use computers, just like you do, do we waste our time and money on them, huh no chance don't need to. SO long as its powerful enough has the memory required plenty of good fast reliable storage and decent connections to the audio interfaces its good. 

 

I am trying not be be critical but I guess that is inevitable  its not a personal attack on anyone, except maybe myself since you think my system isn't up to the task and it cost shy of £5k

 

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I appreciate your taking the time to take a look at what I posted. I didn’t say or imply anything about your systems. From what I can tell, it seems you are/were making a bits are bits argument. That argument is typically made to say audiophiles — and also many many sound engineers — are hearing things when they claim sound differences between digital cables and sometimes even components. This thread is driven by people who hear differences between SSDs. Are they (and I) making it up, i.e., consumed by illusion (and btw, why only in audio, why not in the rest of our lives, work and play, too)?  

 

I suggested that the proof either way is in the listening, not in arguments or theories. The fact that a lot is not yet understood, that measuring instruments are not yet up to the task, and what so very many of us hear doesn’t jibe with academic theory, is held against our credibility. It’s strange that people who question us would think that a whole commercial market could be built and maintained for decades based on wholly illusory hearing. What’s the theory to explain that? After all, audio is not ideology or religion, where illusory thinking does so often play a central role. 

 

I have pretty good, well-experienced ears, given that I’m an old guy too. I also have integrity: if I hear a difference, and I’m going about things in an appropriately systematic fashion, then there’s a difference (whether better or not relative to my tastes is a different matter); if not, or I’m not sure, then that’s the call, regardless of price, others’ opinions or what have you. I suspect that others who have contributed to this thread are the same way. If you don’t believe that the differences we hear are real, then create your own thread, because really your post (and my reply) is off topic.

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Its not off topic quite the reverse since we are talking about computer components interfering and effecting the sound you hear at the other end. Yes in this instance SSDs but still there all components of a computer system. But your right in that i think another thread dedicated to the subject would be of interest I would love to pick a specific track and analyse it properly and see what if anything you can hear I can't and maybe why

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