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4 hours ago, One and a half said:

I'm looking at the M.2 as well for a new server. There's no metal enclosure and the dedicated connector doesn't really allow modification. 

The only M.2 Ive seen is like half RAM stick, maybe a metal case is available, havent looked as yet. 

 

The upside is the M.2 leaves a footprint like RAM, avoids the inertia of a traditional SSD, although would house the OS, which carries traffic, kinda stuck with that in any case.

And how will an M.2 SSD drive compare with a HDD for music storage? HDD still the better option?

Custom built silent Media PC, Synology DS415+ NAS -> SoTM sms200Ultra/sps500  -> TAD DA1000 DAC/preamp and Bryston 4BSST2 power amp -> Harbeth SHL5 speakers and Velodyne DD10+ subwoofers. PowerQuest Carbon USB cable, Chord Company Chorus interconnects, Chord Company Signature speaker leads, Clearer Audio Silver-Line power leads

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I store all my music (flac etc) on a hard drive cos I am a Scot and wont fork out for a supa large SSD however on my audio computer (for making music) I use M2 for OS and dlls and SSD for vsts and hard drives (quite a few of them) for Sound banks and Kontakt libraries. I also use a Fractal Design R5 XL case cos its huge silent and built to last. I do believe the case is just as important if not MORE important than the rest of the system.  M2 and SSD have no moving parts so nothing to vibrate, unlike a HDD so the distance from the HDDs to the main board must have some warranty as much as how secure there bolted down. My drive trays have rubber gauntlets so that will also help

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2 hours ago, debt_collector said:

And how will an M.2 SSD drive compare with a HDD for music storage? HDD still the better option?

M/2 is quick and the 'pipe' is quite wide. Problem is the capacity, if the libary is small < 265GB , the M.2 would work, with 6000+ albums, photos, text files and pdf, in the current music library is approaching the limit of a 6TB drive, have just ordered two 10TB drives for expansion, these are regular 24/7 3.5in drives.

 

Electrical noise for a big drive like that is best kept on another machine which is the current practice, and deploying isolation methods, EtherRegen /Basske /Optical on the Network cable are alternatives to installing the music files inside the server. I have wondered why the Innuos/Lumin of the world only offer such a 'small' internal drive for the library. Management is an important key issue here, backups are mandatory, to backup those files took 2 1/2 days via USB3 on a fresh 10TB portable drive.  A single point of failure of a drive in a music server is not wise choice. 

 

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I have a few computers and just sync the drives (master and slave or main and backup what ever u want to call them) over the network. Being honest I have not added anything new to my music library for ages happy with what I have. I guess I could pull the files from another computer but I really do not take it that seriously as I dont have any issue with the quality it all sounds good to me

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  • 4 weeks later...
3 hours ago, plissken said:

Anyone know if Tidal, Qobuz, Amazon Music, Apple are using Audiophile SSD's in their servers?

Doubt it... but they also don't use single processor board servers built for consumer checkbooks 😉 A server in a data center has multiple CPU boards, memory,

capable of running multiple virtual machines. Not sure though what the disk access hardware solution is, has to be independent and mirrored to meet uptime availability requirements, hot swap needs.

Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

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Having a commercial server background they will be running server farms (cluster of servers) that will link to disk arrays that can take either SAS\SATA\SSD Drives. They will also be synchronized over numerous sites for business continuity and faster local access. We are talking about a digital signal so I doubt they will care much about interference. Business cares about 2 things, reliability and cost and knowing their servers will be pretty hefty when it comes to available storage space, I would guess they will ALL use a mixture of SSD\SAS drives.

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Its a digital signal and with TCP\IP there is some network error correction to make sure you get the whole file you request.  The quality of the end sound depends on MANY things, the actually recording, MP3 Flac your DAC amp and speakers. Its a digital signal so your not using their sound card\DAC only the file any issues on that side will be on your side.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Samsung T7 anyone for data storage?

I am using a 2012 i7 MacMini now upgraded with 1TB internal storage. Playback via Uptone ISO Regen, Singxer to Holo Audio Spring DAC. 

Currently using a quiet conventional 2TB Toshiba drive which is 4 years old connected via USB. Software used is Roon. 

Does replacing the external storage with a Samsung T7 make sense?

Thank you.

 

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The Samsung T7 are really nice but I think rather expensive for what they are. £350 for 2Tb when you can buy a standard SATA6 5Tb Tosh for just over £100. Can u not buy and use an external SATA USB docking station then you could get the cheaper Samsung QVO SSDs cos there about £100 for 1Tb each and £200 for the 2Tb version or even the standard SATA6 Tosh 5Tb. I use both the Tosh 5Tb and Samsung QVOs for the sound banks for vsts on my studio computer cos I have a ton of presets and samples so cheap cheerful reliability and quality matter I do not notice any sound difference no matter what the volume 

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1 hour ago, wouterk said:

Samsung T7 anyone for data storage?

I am using a 2012 i7 MacMini now upgraded with 1TB internal storage. Playback via Uptone ISO Regen, Singxer to Holo Audio Spring DAC. 

Currently using a quiet conventional 2TB Toshiba drive which is 4 years old connected via USB. Software used is Roon. 

Does replacing the external storage with a Samsung T7 make sense?

Thank you.

 

 

Not really, the music will be fine on any external spinning drive of appropriate size.

No electron left behind...

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On 4/11/2020 at 7:30 PM, Uselessoldman said:

The Samsung T7 are really nice but I think rather expensive for what they are. £350 for 2Tb when you can buy a standard SATA6 5Tb Tosh for just over £100. Can u not buy and use an external SATA USB docking station then you could get the cheaper Samsung QVO SSDs cos there about £100 for 1Tb each and £200 for the 2Tb version or even the standard SATA6 Tosh 5Tb. I use both the Tosh 5Tb and Samsung QVOs for the sound banks for vsts on my studio computer cos I have a ton of presets and samples so cheap cheerful reliability and quality matter I do not notice any sound difference no matter what the volume 

 

Internal SSDs attached to an USB-docking-station in my testing sounded better than external SSD as they give you the chance to separate power from data easily. External SSDs like the T7 usually combine data and power in one USB-cable. If you use an docking-station you might try to use a distinguished LPS (R-core preferred) with audiophile DC-cable (e. g. JSSG360 from ghentaudio) and better USB-cable as well. All betters sound quality over standard external SSD.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 12/17/2019 at 4:20 AM, sandyk said:

The best SSDs for Audio will be those shielded from the rest of the PC/Server . This may be able to be achieved by mounting them on a metal adaptor and installing them inside a metal drive bay. They should use the shortest possible SATA3 6GB/s cables which have 2 internal screened cables instead of the generic 7 wires side by side. Their power supply cable should also be screened if possible (a DIY solution) and they should be powered from a low noise +5V supply derived from the +12V rail using a separate voltage regulator to reduce interaction with other components via the power supply, as they have a much higher square wave noise level injected back into the PSU than a HDD.  (see also  https://thessdguy.com/solving-ssd-power-spike-issues/#more-1312)

 They can also radiate a lot of RF/EMI which can affect other components including WiFi.

See attached .pdf.

14A2-B4.pdf 384.34 kB · 94 downloads

Or even better - power your 2.5" SSD or HDD with a dedicated 5V LPSU separate from the motherboard and any other power rails. 

4x20A circuits | Audioquest Niagara 3000 | HDPlex + Paul Hynes SR4T -> Music PC w/JCAT Femto Ethernet, HQPlayer, Roon, Tidal, Qobuz | Aqua Acoustic Quality LinQ Network Interface | Aqua Acoustic Quality Formula xHD Rev. 2 DAC | Purity Audio Silver Statement preamp | Audionet Max monoblocks | Vivid Audio Giya G2 Series 2 | 4 JL Audio Fathoms | Echole / JPS Labs ICs, Aluminata SCs | Stillpoints -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers / subs | Custom Baltic birch rack | Fully treated + dedicated 2 channel room

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6 minutes ago, sb6 said:

Or even better - power your 2.5" SSD or HDD with a dedicated 5V LPSU separate from the motherboard and any other power rails. 

 

 Not necessarily. It's best to share a COMMON Earth reference point. Doing this may result in a minor earth loop problem.

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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1 hour ago, sandyk said:

 

 Not necessarily. It's best to share a COMMON Earth reference point. Doing this may result in a minor earth loop problem.

IME a dedicated SSD LPSU had sonic improvements over a sharing power / rail LPSU. In fact I'm running 4 separate LPSUs for my music PC with no ground loop issues whatsoever yet each dedicated LPSU yielded better sonics.

4x20A circuits | Audioquest Niagara 3000 | HDPlex + Paul Hynes SR4T -> Music PC w/JCAT Femto Ethernet, HQPlayer, Roon, Tidal, Qobuz | Aqua Acoustic Quality LinQ Network Interface | Aqua Acoustic Quality Formula xHD Rev. 2 DAC | Purity Audio Silver Statement preamp | Audionet Max monoblocks | Vivid Audio Giya G2 Series 2 | 4 JL Audio Fathoms | Echole / JPS Labs ICs, Aluminata SCs | Stillpoints -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers / subs | Custom Baltic birch rack | Fully treated + dedicated 2 channel room

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1 hour ago, AudioDoctor said:

Do we really think that one SSD will be "better" than any other with regards to sound quality? This has to be the absolute most ridiculous thing I have seen here...

There are many that believe each SSD and HDD "sound" different. I've never experienced a difference in any SSD or HDD. The only difference I've heard is via the quality and quantity (current capability) of the power supply.

4x20A circuits | Audioquest Niagara 3000 | HDPlex + Paul Hynes SR4T -> Music PC w/JCAT Femto Ethernet, HQPlayer, Roon, Tidal, Qobuz | Aqua Acoustic Quality LinQ Network Interface | Aqua Acoustic Quality Formula xHD Rev. 2 DAC | Purity Audio Silver Statement preamp | Audionet Max monoblocks | Vivid Audio Giya G2 Series 2 | 4 JL Audio Fathoms | Echole / JPS Labs ICs, Aluminata SCs | Stillpoints -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers / subs | Custom Baltic birch rack | Fully treated + dedicated 2 channel room

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8 minutes ago, sb6 said:

There are many that believe each SSD and HDD "sound" different. I've never experienced a difference in any SSD or HDD. The only difference I've heard is via the quality and quantity (current capability) of the power supply.

 

I am even a bit skeptical of that, although much less, with something like the Optical Rendu Signature SE in the chain.

No electron left behind...

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1 hour ago, AudioDoctor said:

Do we really think that one SSD will be "better" than any other with regards to sound quality? This has to be the absolute most ridiculous thing I have seen here...

 

 Well, that is not MY experience, with even the actual Power supply for the SSD making a difference. There are many members that use separate Linear PSUs for that reason. In my case I use the existing +12V SMPS regulated down to a very low noise (<4uV) +5V supply .

It's no more ridiculous than the original C.A. Symposium organised by Chris many years ago, where most present preferred the  sound of SSD over HDD when playing the same material.:P

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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3 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

 Well, that is not MY experience, with even the actual Power supply for the SSD making a difference. There are many members that use separate Linear PSUs for that reason. In my case I use the existing +12V SMPS regulated down to a very low noise (<4uV) +5V supply .

It's no more ridiculous than the original C.A. Symposium organised by Chris many years ago, where most present preferred the  sound of SSD over HDD when playing the same material.:P

 

The difference is I can think up some real actual reasons why that may be the case, and none of them would make one SSD sound different from another.

 

I recently updated the SSD on my Mac mini from a 60GB version that was a few years old, to a 250GB version. Both Electra 6G from OWC. I am sure something has changed over the 4 years or so in between the two of them other than price. There was zero change in sound.

No electron left behind...

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28 minutes ago, sb6 said:

IME a dedicated SSD LPSU had sonic improvements over a sharing power / rail LPSU. In fact I'm running 4 separate LPSUs for my music PC with no ground loop issues whatsoever yet each dedicated LPSU yielded better sonics.

 Just because you are unable to hear the usual effects of separate Earth references  (hum) does not mean that they can't cause Audible degradation such as a little low level harshness or a less than " black" silence.

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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1 minute ago, sandyk said:

 Just because you are unable to hear the usual effects of separate Earth references  (hum) does not mean that they can't cause Audible degradation such as a little low level harshness or a less than " black" silence.

 

Just because you didn't hear the tree fall in the woods doesn't mean it didn't make sound...

 

Is that really your argument?

No electron left behind...

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8 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

I recently updated the SSD on my Mac mini from a 60GB version that was a few years old, to a 250GB version. Both Electra 6G from OWC. I am sure something has changed over the 4 years or so in between the two of them other than price. There was zero change in sound.

 

That is with your ears and your System. It does NOT mean that others are unable to hear these differences.

 Have you even tried using a low noise +5V supply to power them like many other members have ?

 Try making statement like that in Rajiv's massive thread .:D

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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