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New HDPLEX 200W LPS


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A very general remark which everyone can take as they please:

 

Rubycon caps are the most cheap capacitors used everywhere, while Elna's of the proper type are presented as audio grade and can easily cost several US dollars the piece. We use Elna's in 100% everything (FWIW).

I can't know about the SQ implications (tough I have an idea) but the sheer fact that a couple of these may make a difference of, say, USD 1 vs USD 20, is in Chinese terms a lot of money (maybe someone can tell what a month earning in China is in USD - then you'll know). I wouldn't accept this, if it was advertised with Elna's.

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14 hours ago, incus said:

This happened to me minutes after firing up my updated 200W model for the first time too.

 

What motherboard were you using there ?

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Could be apples and oranges:

 

Rubycon01.png.9a6a38f3459738bf047a6483c54816fa.png

 

 

Rubycon02.png.f436e520dbd856388bef0d78312e6a1c.png

 

The Elna exists in a more expensive quality. The Rubycon IMO not (but is the same that I wouldn't search for extra expensive lamp wire).

There is an other way around though: buy from Elna Japan and have them 10x or so cheaper (but also in 10x more quantity), which won't really work for Rubycon. But now the price is not "several USD" pp any more in the first place ...

 

Lastly, this is not about SMD parts, which HDPlex likely uses (but I saw a picture of the one above, right ?). These are far more expensive, with my idea that Elna doesn't even have those (I never investigated that).

 

Is it really important ? maybe not.

Did I ever hear a difference ? maybe not. But some things "for audio" one just applies ...

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On 2/25/2019 at 3:26 AM, Chopin75 said:

it just spontaneously smoked yesterday!   I was  using 19Vm and 2 of the 5 V for  SATA and USB bridge and it happened only few min after I turned off the main HDPLEX PC.

 

 

41 minutes ago, Chopin75 said:

From what I understand is that a surge of > 12 A at the 19V rail has caused the rectifier to blow. (normally it is 10 A, with my rusty Physics, I suppose the current "A" fluctuates depends on resistance.

 

 

Are you able to elaborate on this ? I mean, would you have an explanation of what would be drawing 228W+ via that 19V when the PC was turned off ? ... "Main HDPlex PC" ??

IOW, interesting ...

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Chopin75 said:

the LPS iwas still powered so could continue to supply the 19V as I did not turn off the main switch yet.

 

That is how it would work, IMO, yes.

 

Quote

It is possible the resistance change after turning off the computer

 

I saw you writing something like that earlier. Now I understand what you mean. But think like this to let it happen :

 

1. You switch off the PC;

2. The ATX module (part of the PSU) now makes a wrong connection (per relais or maybe chip);

3. Because of #2 the output of the 19V (towards the ATX module) shortcuts;

4. The PSU (the main 19V DC supply) is now incurring for the maximum current possible, denoted by all what is in front of it;

5. If not all is carefully balanced, like the rectifier now digesting more current than it is designed for, that specific element breaks (the rectifier in your case, as I understand it).

 

Ad 2a.

The fault is there but may be hidden forever (because nothing may break specifically at that place). But, just the same that specific shortcutting element may break (smoke into dust) because that too is subject to the now abnormally high current.

 

Ad 2b.

It is to be carefully examined whether the possibility exists that at the motherboard end (say somewhere near the 24pin connector going into it), the motherboard shuts off as directed (by you), but next in there the shortcut appears for whatever logic the MoBo designer had in mind. Mind you, the Power Good (now zero) or whatever already tells that no power is to be delivered by the PSU but nothing tells me nor you, nor maybe Larry that this power is cut in time. And what may be suspect is the capacitor banks still containing supply towards the logic, while it should but cut at the same time (or even earlier) when the MoBo is told to shut off BUT which is in cooperation with the OS, so not easy (me thinks).

 

Supposed Larry is told that this all would not have happened when you right after the shut down *also* switched off the power at the PSU, he may scratch his head and think "oh shoot".

All IOW, it can't be emphasized enough that this happened when the PC had shut down already (while your PC when running may not even use 50W - just making up something). Something short cuts after shut down, in your (MoBo ?) situation.

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8 hours ago, soares said:

Just to remind that if you prefer you can order sboosters with up to 3 rails:

 

 

2 hours ago, Chopin75 said:

This is dedicated single V only, no adjustment which should make it better for sound and more reliable.  It uses some sort of supercap too. Does HDPlex use similar way of employing super cap to charge/discharge ?

 

 

You (both) are now talking about power supplies in general. 1000s of that exist. Of course they have a purpose, but HDPlex is in general about ATX which is to control booting, control and shutdown of PC's ...

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  • 2 months later...

Some people in here think that Amir doesn't know what to use his toys for (I am among them). These are not the people who don't hear a difference in anything whatsoever (like Amir himself and unlike me).

 

As long as every difference is rejected with a "but you won't hear that anyway", then stop posting this BS. Or give it to archimago etc.

Or flush the toilet harder, if you know what I mean ...

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11 hours ago, FredericV said:

So I'm not surprised what he measured.

 

Ehm, which is nothing.

 

11 hours ago, FredericV said:

Those threads were on avsforum

 

Yes. And if you really followed those (especially the one about Audio Processing in Vista explained) then you know we don't like each other.

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2 minutes ago, Chopin75 said:

Not sure what this DC-ATX converter is ??

 

That is for powering an ATX (PSU) based computer, which is all with a normal power inlet (not 19V etc.). So remove the PSU and put that instead, together with (e.g.) the HDPlex 200W. But then it is a ~ 200W PSU only (and not 400W).

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7 minutes ago, rickca said:

It's an alternative to using a linear ATX supply.

 

Rick - Although semantically and technically true, this could be confusing. I would rather say : it is an alternative to using a switching ATX supply.

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6 hours ago, FredericV said:

"{d04e05a6-594b-4fb6-a80d-01af5eed7d1d},4"="Auzen X-Meridian 7.1"

 

I see that you were practicing with MQA already back then. :D

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1 hour ago, marce said:

Record different instruments and look at the results, waveforms, fft's showing frequency content etc. you can see a difference.

 

I just tried. You are right of course. There is really difference between a Spanish guitar with metal strings and a Dobro with metal strings. Next up is trying to see which is which. I think after a while I can do that too.

Btw, I started out with a comparison between a kick drum and a harp. But that was really too easy.

 

Any more eureka moments for us to share ?

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  • 3 weeks later...
19 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Why not just use a picoPSU-160-XT (http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-160-XT) which passes through without converters the clean 12V from your nice power supplies,

 

22 minutes ago, Superdad said:

I am not not understanding the need/desire to use a 19V DC-DC switching converter board when all the mobo rails call for 12V and below.

 

Because any 12V fed to a 12V ATX system will drop to lower (like under 11V) so the ATX system (yes, "system") shuts off. It is a bit of Ohm's Law in order here. In the end the main power supply isn't powerful enough (not enough buffer capacitance and else the transformer not beefy enough).

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2 hours ago, Superdad said:

Thousands of people use the 12V-input picoPSU-160-XT ATX converter I linked to.

 

But that doesn't make me wrong, Alex. And you wondered what you did not understand. Well, I just explained.

And my "environment" is exactly that other way: normal desktop PC's with at least 90WTDP processors and Windows behavior which is out of our control (at boot-up - and it is exactly there where it fails - once it runs it is fine).

 

And so allow me to give a reason for people not being able to use the Pico you referred to in the first place. It is not even related to the power supply behind it but that the thing *itself* does not regulate the 12V. This is just the too cheap approach ... And once it regulates, the power supply comes in order (as a possible culprit).

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4 hours ago, luisma said:

The atx power supply has voltage regulators guaranteeing the output voltage and current based on load (ohms law) which with the LPS and the DC to DC adapter could not be achieved, you need a bridge with caps and regulators to do so and that's the DC to atx adapter that hdplex supplies and it is fed with voltage margins above 16V.

 

100% !

 

4 hours ago, luisma said:

have you or do you know if someone have tried feeding 13V from a DC LPS with good results assuming voltage will drop to 12V or so?

 

Probably not. But this is also related to the available stuff in front of it "out of a box". 13V is not out of a box available. 15V is. 19V is (this relates to transformers and there DC output). 12V is also, but it is not enough.

It is all a matter of carefully matching (or else there will be too much heat and current draw to begin with).

 

On the latter there is also this:

When you boot from RAM (like we do with our Xenons) this is - depending on further hardware arrangements - a process of copying the OS to RAM first. This takes time, like say 2 minutes, During those two minutes there's a relative high current usage. This implies thus heat. And this implies more current because of less efficiency because of the more heat which thus implies more current which ... boom.

So this is coincidentally not the transient requirement (as it is referred to in the last posts) but to the more and more heating up of everything (regulators and such, but also the processor itself). Even the transformer when it is relatively small. And *then* you'd still need that spiky current draw (which is only at half a second moment later in the boot process).

When I start out with 105W (on the 230V mains) I may end up close to 200W when the boot process (from RAM) takes e.g. 5 minutes. This implies that it shouldn't take 5 minutes. And / or that such a 160W ATX module can't be used in the first place.

 

There's many variations in this all. And indeed there will be a largest group which uses the smallest (Atom etc.) processors in the first place.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Off Topic - I think... 

 

Someone, I think from this thread? - told (me) that Larry was going to send me the latest incarnation of the 400W units for testing. The message carried an odeur that Larry and me arranged for this, so the consumer should wait for the outcome. But I knew of nothing and thought "oh well". 

However, a week ago the units arrived anyway. 

 

Can he who seems to be involved, step forward please? Then maybe I can learn what to do with them for real. 

 

Thanks, 

Peter 

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Rick, No, it is the DC-ATX module. But the 3rd version of it, IIRC what that person talked about. 

I am travelling at this moment, so it is not easy to check everything. 

 

Feels a bit stupid. 

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  • 1 year later...
On 9/25/2020 at 11:01 PM, henke said:

You know ”Larry” is fony right? He is not real

 

I think you should clarify this ...

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