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I said earlier that I had asked Qobuz in Paris about the search engine. I had a response today that they " are working on it, sorry for the inconvenience". So that happily ties in with David Craff's  posts.

 

So hopefully it won't be too far away, but who can tell? Meantime all I need to do is learn how to spell Foolds, Fields, Fellds, Fowds, Fulds, .....

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1 hour ago, David Craff said:

 

Hi,

 

I'm the product manager for the search engine. New version is in beta at Qobuz, with best result, new suggestion and filter. Test will be made during this summer. Hope to launch in september.

 

Regards

 

Thanks. 👍

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I'm sorry for being impolite again, however the search engine is truly completely broken. If I search for Beck Symphonies I get two relevant results, then four and a half pages of absolute spam, then a few more relevant results are provided. I don't understand how anyone would find this situation satisfactory. It is an utter failure and imposes tremendous discomfort and frustration for the user to find what they're looking for. Such substandard functionality doesn't suit a premium service.

 

Performing a search shouldn't require more forethought than solving differential equations. This needs to be corrected and the abusive fuzzy logic abandoned. There are rumors that Amazon is launching a high resolution service this year. Unless Qobuz and Tidal get their act together, they're going to get crushed.

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It's difficult to know what to add to your post at this point in this thread.  David Craff of Qobuz has said that Qobuz are aware of the problem , are developing a replacement search engine which is targetted for release in September.  As a UK subscriber I approached Qobuz in  Paris ( where customer services for the UK is ) and they replied  broadly along the same lines though without specifying the release target.

 

David Craff has also suggested for the time being to enter quotation marks before and after the search term. I suggested using the full name of the composer instead of just their surname.  I did the above and got the result below, first try,  which I would think a success.

 

Yes you are right about the threat looming from Amazon. Aside from any concern about the search engine (and Amazon's normal search engine can produce unexpected results), Amazon have said that they want to come in at $15.99 per month. That alone would surely cream off many subscribers from Qobuz and Tidal if achieved. I am reminded of an interview with Klaus Heymann ( Naxos) a couple of years back when he predicted that the costs of running a streaming service are such that only huge companies who can effectively bundle the music service as part of their general offer will succeed ultimately.  I could imagine  that a $15.99 monthly subscription for hi-res could well be underwritten by Amazon's other profit centres. However there are other  developments that are of even greater concern if the music business follows the example of what is coming up from the movie business where the studio no longer licences its movies to third parties but runs its own online streaming. 

 

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My new version of Quboz doesn't want to start on most tracks. It also appears to pick the sample rate randomly in stead of the 24/192 flac that i signed up for. Can someone comment? Thanks.

 

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In order to try to help we need to know what your " New version of Qobuz" is. Is it a browser version. Is it a desktop, if so is it Windows or Apple? If Windows is it a 32 or 64 bit version?  Or is it a mobile app, Android or iOS? Or is it a player from a third party Qobuz partner such as LMS or Melco, dCS, Sonos  etc.etc. ? Could you also expand a bit on what you mean by Qobuz not wanting to start on most tracks?  Do you mean that after selecting the album when the play page appears in Qobuz' own app that when you click on a track or the play album button at the top left that it doesn't play at all or does it make an attempt then hang?

 

With Qobuz' own players you need to tell the player in your account settings what sample rate you want.  It is not automatically set.  So you can pick up to 24/192, up to 24/96, CD 16/44.1 or even MP3s  depending on the circumstances. For example   the DAC you are using at a given time may be limited to 24/96 or you may be using a data limited ISP connection ( for example listening to streams on a phone) where you want MP3.

 

Of course the maximum streaming resolution Qobuz can send  is limited to the maximum file resolution that has been released by the record company. If the record company has only put out 16/44.1 then that is all you can expect. You cannot get everything in 24/192. That is the maximum available resolution. Many files will be hi-res ( i.e. 24 bit) but the sample rate can be 88.2, 96, 176.4, 192 and even 44.1. Note this is actually a good thing as it indicates that you are getting the native file rate supplied to Qobuz by the record label and that they are not upsampling in order to play a numbers game. Incidentally most digital mastering is not done at 24/192 in any case. That is comparatively rare.  if hi-res is available then my guess is that 24/96 is the most common format, at least for classical music. For pop/rock , however, there are an awful lot of 24/44.1 recordings still being made.

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7 hours ago, PAR said:

 I suggested using the full name of the composer instead of just their surname.

 

This isn't a dependable procedure as full names aren't standardized. Sometimes the first name isn't included, other times only the initials such as J. C. Bach, others different variants are employed, such as Josef versus Joseph. A search engine needs simply to be accurate, not attempt to guess what the user is looking for and abusively display all sorts of irrelevant results. Everyone hates spam.

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7 hours ago, PAR said:

It's difficult to know what to add to your post at this point in this thread.

 

A half point was deducted from your exemplary score for enabling a dependence on screenshots.  :P

 

3 minutes ago, Polyglot said:

not attempt to guess what the user is looking for and abusively display all sorts of irrelevant results.

 

You really are trying to be the guy who picks a fight with everyone no matter how nice they are to you.  Much less anyone daring to make a mildly dismissive (condescending?) comment on the disruption.

 

Enough.  Enough fruitless anger and despondency.  The only abusive display of irrelevancy to results remains your behaviour in this thread.  Before and after a very direct official response personally addressed at you was given. 

 

 

fin!  

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For the last time, this is how Tidal, Spotify, Amazon Music and Qobuz handle a simple, typical search such as Beck Symphonies. Clearly, out of the four, only Qobuz isn't providing relevant results. Its search function is broken and this is an indisputable fact. It is essential that it be fixed without delay before competition becomes much tougher.

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I just had a small hiccup. I began playback by right clicking this album and pressing play. It then skipped a few songs and began at #3, played a few, skipped a few more and then continued. However, if I press play on the skipped tracks, they play fine. Perhaps something you should be aware of David. I have no idea if this is Qobuz or ROON though.

 

 

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6 hours ago, RichardSF said:

I did a search for "szell" (i.e. George Szell). The top result was... Dangerous by Michael Jackson ☺️

How did the search engine come up with this? Serious question, because I'm genuinely curious.

 

 

Credits for track #11 'Will You Be There' include George Szell, Conductor. 🙂

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jonathan

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4 hours ago, spin33 said:

 

 

Credits for track #11 'Will You Be There' include George Szell, Conductor. 🙂

Interesting, I never listened to this album before and only knew this song from the radio, where they skip the full orchestral intro. That sounds like an excerpt from the 9th, 4th movement, right?

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7 minutes ago, Musicophile said:

Interesting, I never listened to this album before and only knew this song from the radio, where they skip the full orchestral intro. That sounds like an excerpt from the 9th, 4th movement, right?

 

I’ve not ever listened to the album or the song. 🙂

 

When @RichardSF presented his issue/question, I simply suspected that ‘szell’ appeared somewhere in metadata of the release. Replicated the search in Qobuz, scrolled thru the album credits to verify and reported back. So not really an ‘error’ in search, yet still interesting that it tops the results list. 

 

But my curiosity is piqued. Perhaps I’ll give it a listen. 

sonicTransporter i5 + Roon Server controlled via iPad Pro 10.5 -> Ghent USB Cable -> iFi iPurifier3 -> Ayre QB-9 Twenty DAC -> Bryston Amplification-> Magnepan LRS speakers + REL T7i

 

jonathan

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23 minutes ago, spin33 said:

When @RichardSF presented his issue/question, I simply suspected that ‘szell’ appeared somewhere in metadata of the release. Replicated the search in Qobuz, scrolled thru the album credits to verify and reported back. So not really an ‘error’ in search

 

Do you believe Michael Jackson is what people are really looking for when they search for George Szell?

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41 minutes ago, firedog said:

And do you really believe that your constant griping about the issue is somehow useful? Two Qobuz representatives have already told you that they recognize the issue and are working on a replacement search engine that should solve the problems you mention. And they’ve also told you it won’t be ready tomorrow, but in the near future. 

If it isn’t here  in October come back with your legitimate complaint. But that also doesn’t mean you have to repeatedly make the same complaint, even after you’ve been responded to. None of us are interested in accounts of your personal frustrations each time you search-get over yourself. Or just stop using Qobuz. If you think it is so terrible, why do you insist on using it?

 

Agree 100%. Constantly repeating the same gripe, and as it seems ‘Polyglot is, ignoring the responses/help simply reflects badly on the poster and TBH is clogging up what has been an otherwise useful thread. If you really don’t like it, don’t use it. 

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I’ve been playing Qobuz through the new DragonFly Cobalt (iPad and iPhone via USB3-connection-kit). Since that DAC is limited to PCM 24/96 I noticed that when I play 192kHz-sampled music the Cobalt’s LED indicates the color for 96kHz (light-blue is the correct color according to AudioQuest, contrary to the manual). So I’m assuming Qobuz will downsample anything higher than 96kHz to an appropriate lower (even multiple) rate.

 

My question is, does that downsampling happening in the app (iOS app in my case) and therefore using cached songs if possible, or does the app request a downsampled version from the Qobuz servers to stream?

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No, it is the Dragonfly  that is downsampling. Its "ceiling" ( to use AQ's own wording) is 24/96.  The colour represents the  resolution it is playing rather then receiving ( as with the Red). I believe that when it is rendering MQA higher rates may be available but it is unclear.  Have you looked at p.8 in your manual? That explains it. BTW the correct colour for 96 kHz is magenta. So if you send it a 192kHz file it should show a magenta light. Blue represents 48kHz. AQ recommend (if possible) that you send the Dragonfly files that are multiples of 96 where higher resolutions are involved. That is try to send it 192 kHz files rather than, say,  176.4 kHz.

 

Having said that the Qobuz apps offer the ability to set a  limit to the resolution that you want . So the apps can be set only to deliver a maximum of MP3 or CD resolution or 24/96 or 24/192. Of course these are subject to the highest resolution that was provided by the record label to Qobuz. The settings are found in your Qobuz account management  section.

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3 hours ago, PAR said:

...BTW the correct colour for 96 kHz is magenta. So if you send it a 192kHz file it should show a magenta light. Blue represents 48kHz.

...

 

That may be true for the DF Red, but I emailed AQ because I was getting a light-blue-almost-white light for anything at 96kHz. This was there reply:

 

“We are working on updating the Cobalt manual for 96kHz.  It is not magenta but more of a light blue.  This helps make more of a distinction between the MQA Magenta(MQA Purple) and the previous magenta 96kHz on DragonFly Red and Black.  Which looked too close to each other when playing Tidal Masters/MQA.  We most likely will have the downloadable manual of our site updated first with color descriptions and then the printed manuals for future production of Cobalts.  We apologize about that.  There are no firmware updates at this time nor changes.  No defective LED’s.  It is the manual that needs to be corrected.”

 

Cheers,

Gus

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