Official Qobuz Issues Thread

[Jud]

5 hours ago, David Craff said:
It is also important not to forget the data problems when receiving a product from a supplier / label. It is far from perfect.

This is what I meant earlier in the thread when I said that many different types of entities (labels, ripping and player software, and the streaming companies) must all adhere to a standard if correct tagging by streaming companies is to be accomplished at reasonable cost.

 

Streaming companies could do what Roon did and create their own system, but then you would add a Roon-level cost for this work onto what you already pay for the streaming subscription.

[Jud]

Somehow the quote from @David Craff didn’t come through and I can’t manage to edit it in. It was: “It is also important not to forget the data problems when receiving a product from a supplier / label. It is far from perfect.”

[Miska]

On 6/23/2019 at 2:15 AM, left channel said:

Sorry, I was not referring to standards or committees, but rather to how large corporations and their vendors develop proprietary apps and websites, with or without referring to shared industry standards. An information architect is a person that develops the structural design of an app or website. Further work is then done by a user experience designer and other team members. 

 

 

Many schools of library science have at this point been merged with information science. Librarians are now often employed as information specialists. Information architects and information researchers work at the intersection of information science and computer science.

 

So you only need to achieve following:

1. Introduce a new metadata format and standard. For example including standardized definitions of musical genres and how to correctly categorize music to those genres. So that it is not persons subjective view which genre to to apply, but instead can be objectively specified so that there's absolutely no disagreement.
2. Get all record companies redo all metadata for all of their catalogs according to the new standard.
3. Get all the internet metadata databases updated to correctly apply the new standard.
4. Get all the software applications correctly apply the new standard without doing ambiguous substitutions between various different "legacy" metadata formats that have different ways to define different items (thus there is no clear 1:1 mapping between fields).

This is just to get started.

 

On 6/23/2019 at 2:15 AM, left channel said:

The right people working at one of these streaming companies could pull all the necessary pieces together.

 

You suggest that streaming companies completely rework all the metadata provided by record companies? In addition, that information would need to be somehow transferred to applications in a sensible way - unless you rely on one single in-house application for browsing and playback. Essentially a new metadata standard. And if you don't rely on a single in-house client application for everything, everybody else also needs to adopt that. Otherwise you end up again with the same old substitution/abstraction challenge.

 

[Jud]

Yes, genre especially is just the Wild West in terms of tags from the music companies.

 

 I suppose, since the Classical genre is the one where we see the most complaints and talk about needing something else, that an extension to current standards could be adopted exclusively for material tagged by the labels as Classical. This might make things a little easier by reducing the number of participants needed to discuss the extension, and vastly reducing the number of new releases to which the extension would apply.

 

But it’s all castles in the air at this point.

[left channel]

Classical metadata deserves its own thread. Standby...

[left channel]

Voilà:

 

[David Craff]

12 hours ago, Jud said:

This is what I meant earlier in the thread when I said that many different types of entities (labels, ripping and player software, and the streaming companies) must all adhere to a standard if correct tagging by streaming companies is to be accomplished at reasonable cost.

 

The standard for data are the DDEX (http://ddex.net/) but even there is a standard all entities must to use it correctly.

[left channel]

My Windows app just updated to 5.1.0-b003. Works OK on my fastest PC. I'll test it on my Celeron streamer later today.

[left channel]

5.1.0 still working OK on my i7.  There are some hiccups on my little fanless Celeron. I'll report the details directly to Qobuz.

[Polyglot]

I couldn't get either the new or the test version to work correctly on my old Celeron laptop either. After some minutes of playback sound distorts and the program needs to be restarted. It is a shame, as sound quality is fantastic while it works. Now the price tag of using Qobuz has increased at least $400 for me, which is the price of a modest new laptop. Very sad. Have cancelled my subscription while I consider whether to make the investment. Another downside is the very limited catalogue of the U.S. version of Qobuz. Will it match Tidal or its European offering soon?

 

The program also crashes on my main PC when it is closed and I cannot create playlists properly. When I create or add tracks to a playlist I need to close and reopen the program in order to see them.

 

While sound quality is very good and enjoyable, the program needs to be better engineered.

[left channel]

My fanless Celeron is new and originally intended only to support only a lightweight LMS streaming client, which it does well. But I was surprised to find that the Tidal app works smoothly and even plays videos on the same PC. Not as fast as on my i7, but fast enough to be a reliable a source of entertainment there. With my reports I am trying to help Qobuz support these boxes too.

[Polyglot]

Would this be able to handle hi-res Qobuz flawlessly, with Firefox windows opened simultaneously? I would only need the laptop for streaming.

[left channel]

1 hour ago, Polyglot said:

Would this be able to handle hi-res Qobuz flawlessly, with Firefox windows opened simultaneously? I would only need the laptop for streaming.

 

Probably, yes.

[wdw]

Hello David,

Do you an update on the release date for the Canadian roll out of Qobuz?  It had been mentioned to be six to eight weeks after the US but that date has come and gone.

thanks

[David Craff]

17 hours ago, wdw said:

Hello David,

Do you an update on the release date for the Canadian roll out of Qobuz?  It had been mentioned to be six to eight weeks after the US but that date has come and gone.

thanks

 

Hi

 

Sorry I have no update about this?

 

Regards

[Polyglot]

What happened to Qobuz's search function? It has been utterly ruined!! It is impossible to find anything now. You get a ton of useless, garbage results at the top and must spend a considerable amount of time finding what you're looking for. What a way to destroy something good. If I search for Foerster the composer, this is the trash I'm shown. Just one relevant result in the first three pages. This has got to be fixed!!!!

 

[Polyglot]

You can forget now about searching for the composers Schobert or Englund. Stupid computer programmers.

[PAR]

My first posting here!

 

Yes , computer programs can be stupid.  However to help you it is necessary to know the search terms that you have entered into the Qobuz search engine. As you should have noticed the results start to build as you type into the search box. So for Foerester  you will first see everything with "F" then everything with " Fo" etc. Eventually you complete " Foerester" and will see everything that has any relationship with Foerester. However that, as you have found out, is not necessarily the composer, Foerester. Qobuz contains huge amounts of metadata about tracks which the search engine accesses ( click on the "i" in a circle to see track level information).  So you may be shown albums that have one track that has been  ,say, engineered or produced by a Foerester or have compositions by some other Foerester. Which is great if you want to find tracks engineered by Foerester! There may also be results from the program's use of fuzzy logic. So it might suggest tracks from "Forester" as well.

 

You need to become familiar with the search engine and the best way to use it. One essential thing is to provide it  with the best information. So instead of searching " Foerester", try, Josef Bohuslav Foerester. You should then see something like the screenshot below ( subject to local catalogue provision). There are other tricks to using the search engine successfully, for example  if you fail to find what you want searching, say, by artist name then try  the conductor associated with the work you are trying to find. Then try the Orchestra. You can even search using the record label.

 

This screenshot  is from my UK account so I do not know if the same catalogue is available to you.

 

Although the Qobuz catalogues are different from country to country, the software is basically the same AFAIK. So most of what I am saying should apply irrespective of the country of subscription.

 

Earlier in the thread  you have wondered if the Qobuz catalogue for the USA will grow in size sufficiently. When I joined Qobuz just after the new owner  Xandrie took over, the catalogue left by the previous owner for the UK was pretty sparse in many respects such as recordings of British composers (other than Elgar). Within around 9 months Qobuz had added a huge amount to this genre including works from many of the lesser known composers such as Moeran, Foulds and so on. Of course no streaming service will ever offer everything.

 

As for your technical difficulties with getting the Qobuz player to function properly for you , which one were you using? The browser or the desktop? 32 or 64 bit?  I have even been able to successfully listen to 24/96 tracks via my Samsung Galaxy 7 phone ( obviously using the Qobuz Android phone app) whilst out in the wilds of the UK where I only had a 7 mbs connection. I expect that I could have even played even higher resolution files were it not for the fact that 24/96 is the limit of my portable DAC.

 

Just persevere for a while as you get used to using Qobuz.

 

[Polyglot]

8 hours ago, PAR said:

My first posting here!

 

Yes , computer programs can be stupid.  However to help you it is necessary to know the search terms that you have entered into the Qobuz search engine. As you should have noticed the results start to build as you type into the search box. So for Foerester  you will first see everything with "F" then everything with " Fo" etc. Eventually you complete " Foerester" and will see everything that has any relationship with Foerester. However that, as you have found out, is not necessarily the composer, Foerester. Qobuz contains huge amounts of metadata about tracks which the search engine accesses ( click on the "i" in a circle to see track level information).  So you may be shown albums that have one track that has been  ,say, engineered or produced by a Foerester or have compositions by some other Foerester. Which is great if you want to find tracks engineered by Foerester! There may also be results from the program's use of fuzzy logic. So it might suggest tracks from "Forester" as well.

 

You need to become familiar with the search engine and the best way to use it. One essential thing is to provide it  with the best information. So instead of searching " Foerester", try, Josef Bohuslav Foerester. You should then see something like the screenshot below ( subject to local catalogue provision). There are other tricks to using the search engine successfully, for example  if you fail to find what you want searching, say, by artist name then try  the conductor associated with the work you are trying to find. Then try the Orchestra. You can even search using the record label.

 

This screenshot  is from my UK account so I do not know if the same catalogue is available to you.

 

Although the Qobuz catalogues are different from country to country, the software is basically the same AFAIK. So most of what I am saying should apply irrespective of the country of subscription.

 

Earlier in the thread  you have wondered if the Qobuz catalogue for the USA will grow in size sufficiently. When I joined Qobuz just after the new owner  Xandrie took over, the catalogue left by the previous owner for the UK was pretty sparse in many respects such as recordings of British composers (other than Elgar). Within around 9 months Qobuz had added a huge amount to this genre including works from many of the lesser known composers such as Moeran, Foulds and so on. Of course no streaming service will ever offer everything.

 

As for your technical difficulties with getting the Qobuz player to function properly for you , which one were you using? The browser or the desktop? 32 or 64 bit?  I have even been able to successfully listen to 24/96 tracks via my Samsung Galaxy 7 phone ( obviously using the Qobuz Android phone app) whilst out in the wilds of the UK where I only had a 7 mbs connection. I expect that I could have even played even higher resolution files were it not for the fact that 24/96 is the limit of my portable DAC.

 

Just persevere for a while as you get used to using Qobuz.

 

 

Thank you for your concern and reply. When I search for Foerster Violin, a fairly specific search, I get the first page results on the attached picture. Not a single relevant one. As can be seen on the second picture, Tidal on the other hand produces accurate results. It is fair to say Qobuz's search engine has been rendered utterly and absolutely worthless. It is impossible anymore to find there what you're looking for. You need to dig and wide and spend considerable amounts of time and effort for a simple search, something unacceptable for a premium service. About exploring releases from a general search like a less known composer's name, one of the most enjoyable aspects of streaming as opposed to owning your own CD library, you can forget about it. Why aren't we given an exact search parameter such as "Foerster", or the ability to search in specific fields for composer, album, work, interpreter or label?

 

Regarding the software, it simply wouldn't work on my Celeron laptop. At some point during reproduction sound becomes distorted and it is necessary to restart the program. I listen to music on a room different than that on which my main PC is located. It is not warranted for me to purchase a new laptop just for Qobuz, when the old one works flawlessly with Tidal, so I cancelled my trial. The very limited catalogue in the U.S. is an addition issue. I love Qobuz's high resolution audio, but there are too many problems to deal with for the time being.

[rando]

Education, patience, and calmly examining the situation don't appear to have worked here.  Those of us who explored what a move to NA entailed were quite well prepared to meet challenges and show the type of positive enthusiasm we hope David and his team maintain.  

[Polyglot]

 

37 minutes ago, rando said:

Education, patience, and calmly examining the situation don't appear to have worked here.  Those of us who explored what a move to NA entailed were quite well prepared to meet challenges and show the type of positive enthusiasm we hope David and his team maintain.  

 

Facts don't care about your condescension. While Tidal's search engine provides accurate results, Qobuz's doesn't. If the latter care about competing, they better fix it.

 

First page search results for the term 'Schobert'. Not a single relevant hit on Qobuz. On Tidal, all of Johann Schobert's available albums are presented first. Qobuz's search engine is completely broken.

[Gus141]

@rando @Polyglot I agree with both of you. I paid for Sublime for the year so I could be patient and support the Herculean effort it must take to move to NA. But I kept my TIDAL subscription because of the superior catalog and search capabilities (and I like the My Mix playlists for discovery). I’m not a fan of being trapped into an MQA universe, so everything in my TIDAL playlists I can find in Qobuz, I add to my Qobuz library. I’m hoping for the day I can cancel my TIDAL sub when Qobuz does everything I need. 

[phosphorein]

24 minutes ago, Polyglot said:

 

 

Facts don't care about your condescension. While Tidal's search engine provides accurate results, Qobuz's doesn't. If the latter care about competing, they better fix it.

 

First page search results for the term 'Schobert'. Not a single relevant hit on Qobuz. On Tidal, all of Johann Schobert's available albums are presented first. Qobuz's search engine is completely broken.

 

On the other hand, compare the entries for Heinrich Schütz between Tidal and Qobuz. Database indexing issues aside, my experience is for Classical music, Qobuz reigns. And then there is the occurrence of AAC coded files that are not of CD quality that you encounter on Tidal.

[Mike48]

38 minutes ago, Polyglot said:

First page search results for the term 'Schobert'. Not a single relevant hit on Qobuz.

 

I was going to suggest you search on "Johann Schobert", until I tried it. Not good. Is there repertoire there that is not being found, to you think, or does Qobuz just not have the material?

[Polyglot]

What is ironic is that if you search on this page you get accurate results.