Official Qobuz Issues Thread

[Polyglot]

4 hours ago, Musicophile said:

Give the Audirvana trial a go and see if the issue persists. 

 

2 hours ago, left channel said:

 

The Qobuz app is unusable on a low-power Celeron I use as a streaming endpoint. The Tidal app works OK there.  But I normally access both of them via LMS/Squeezebox (with the new Material skin), which runs smoothly on that PC and all other devices here.

 

Thanks for your replies. I really do not wish to spend more money on services or equipment at the moment, so Tidal alone will have to do for now. I'd rather invest on some CDs.

[_JL_]

I just started the trial but found the Windows Qobuz app's UI super-slow to become totally unusable once playback begins. Is there a fix for this? I have tried both 64-bin and 32-bin version, same thing. Thanks!

 

EDIT: I found that even when just launched nothing playing the app continuously consumes 30% CPU time in my Xeon quad-core system so there is definitely a bug leading to a busy loop. This should be an easy fix so I hope it can be resolved before my trial period ends.

[Martin H]

8 hours ago, _JL_ said:

I just started the trial but found the Windows Qobuz app's UI super-slow to become totally unusable once playback begins. Is there a fix for this? I have tried both 64-bin and 32-bin version, same thing. Thanks!

 

EDIT: I found that even when just launched nothing playing the app continuously consumes 30% CPU time in my Xeon quad-core system so there is definitely a bug leading to a busy loop. This should be an easy fix so I hope it can be resolved before my trial period ends.

Never had any issues with performance here. TBF it's a fairly beefy system but about 3 years old but never tried it on an older box etc but the ipad versions work fine too. The only thing that is mildly irritating is how long it takes to initialise. It just seems a bit unnecessary but you get used to it. I really like the windows app and if the Upnp beta feature actually worked for it would be perfect. It would be super nice if they added lyrics to the tunes while playing or at latest accessible from the playing screen but I will survive. The upnp feature is the critical one for me but it seems to be on the back burner for now unfortunately. Just like the interface and approach they have come adopted. 

[abvolt]

20 hours ago, _JL_ said:

I just started the trial but found the Windows Qobuz app's UI super-slow to become totally unusable once playback begins. Is there a fix for this? I have tried both 64-bin and 32-bin version, same thing. Thanks!

 

EDIT: I found that even when just launched nothing playing the app continuously consumes 30% CPU time in my Xeon quad-core system so there is definitely a bug leading to a busy loop. This should be an easy fix so I hope it can be resolved before my trial period ends.

 

30% is really high mine never gets above 0.6% uses about 340MB of ram also. But I'm having issues with the Qobuz app hope they fix things soon love the sound quality I'm using Studio Qobuz Hi Res is amazing..enjoy

[left channel]

On 6/17/2019 at 5:00 PM, Polyglot said:

 

 

Thanks for your replies. I really do not wish to spend more money on services or equipment at the moment, so Tidal alone will have to do for now. I'd rather invest on some CDs.

 

LMS is free. You would lose the Qobuz written content, though there is an LMS plugin that pulls in AllMusic.com content as well as lyrics from other sites. Still, the main point we're all making here is that the Qobuz folks really need to re-write their desktop app.  

[RichardSF]

On 6/17/2019 at 8:16 PM, _JL_ said:

I just started the trial but found the Windows Qobuz app's UI super-slow to become totally unusable once playback begins. Is there a fix for this?

 

Send a private message to @David Craff of Qobuz and ask about their Windows pre-release test app that addresses this issue.

[_JL_]

4 minutes ago, RichardSF said:

 

Send a private message to @David Craff of Qobuz and ask about their Windows pre-release test app that addresses this issue.

 

Thanks for the suggestion. I just sent a PM to David.

[Cebolla]

As has already been mentioned, Qobuz have already identified the "very slow W10 Qobuz app" issue and a couple of weeks ago supplied a test release with a fix, for willing volunteers with the problem:

 

I have been one of those testers and the fix has certainly solved the issue for me. Hopefully the solution will make it to the production release of the Windows version of the Qobuz Desktop app soon.

[David Craff]

30 minutes ago, Cebolla said:

As has already been mentioned, Qobuz have already identified the "very slow W10 Qobuz app" issue and a couple of weeks ago supplied a test release with a fix, for willing volunteers with the problem:

 

I have been one of those testers and the fix has certainly solved the issue for me. Hopefully the solution will make it to the production release of the Windows version of the Qobuz Desktop app soon.

 

Thanks for the feedback. The production version is ready for test and should arrive soon.

[Mike48]

Qobuz has many usability issues reducing the enjoyment of using it. I've raised some before, either here or in emails to tech support, but nothing ever seems to get better. This is discouraging and makes me wonder if Qobuz staff use the product themselves, and if so, do they ever listen to classical music in any depth?

 

I heard the happy talk at AXPONA, but no one was able to ask or get answered any tough questions.

 

An example of the idiocy of the interface is linked, a play queue in which one can't tell one track from another, because of a combination of extremely poor tagging, specification of a too-large font, and the decision not to include track numbers in track descriptions.

 

It still seems impossible to, say, add a block of tracks to, or remove them from, the play queue without doing it one-by-one. Simple DLNA clients have been able to do this forever.

 

And why can't the Android app send music to a DLNA or OpenHome renderer without using the slow, cumbersome "Share" mechanism, again track-by-track?

 

I appreciate the somewhat better cataloging and usability than Tidal -- which must hold a Guinness record for incompetence -- but I'm beginning to find Qobuz nipping at Tidal's heels in this regard. Is streaming really so unprofitable that a decent and flexible interface is impossible to come up with?

 

 

[David Craff]

8 hours ago, Mike48 said:

Qobuz has many usability issues reducing the enjoyment of using it. I've raised some before, either here or in emails to tech support, but nothing ever seems to get better. This is discouraging and makes me wonder if Qobuz staff use the product themselves, and if so, do they ever listen to classical music in any depth?

 

We are unmasked, indeed we never use our applications and listen only to RAP it's so much better:)

 

8 hours ago, Mike48 said:

An example of the idiocy of the interface is linked, a play queue in which one can't tell one track from another, because of a combination of extremely poor tagging, specification of a too-large font, and the decision not to include track numbers in track descriptions.

 

Can you give me a screenshot of your issue about "can't tell one track from another".

 

8 hours ago, Mike48 said:

It still seems impossible to, say, add a block of tracks to, or remove them from, the play queue without doing it one-by-one. Simple DLNA clients have been able to do this forever.

 

This is possible on desktop & web player if you used Shift or Control key. This work on every track list, to add, remove...

 

8 hours ago, Mike48 said:

And why can't the Android app send music to a DLNA or OpenHome renderer without using the slow, cumbersome "Share" mechanism, again track-by-track?

 

Our  mobile app can't play on DLNA output, but you can use Bubble UPNP to do this with Qobuz.

 

Regards

[mbain]

Anyone know how to view your Qobuz cart and arrange payment from a window that is in English.  The French payment windows always refuse a credit card payment or a Paypal payment.

[Mike48]

On 6/20/2019 at 1:48 AM, David Craff said:

We are unmasked, indeed we never use our applications and listen only to RAP it's so much better:)

My point wasn't what you listen to. It was that the interface and tagging flaws seem obvious to me, and I'd think them obvious to anyone using Qobuz (or Tidal, to be fair) for serious classical listening. Since they don't seem obvious to Qobuz, my conclusion was that no one on the development team uses Q. for classical listening. Perhaps my assumption was wrong, and that people who develop software just tend to minimize its shortcomings.

Quote

Can you give me a screenshot of your issue about "can't tell one track from another".

There was a link to a screenshot in the original post. Please take a look.

Quote

This [multi-selection] is possible on desktop & web player if you used Shift or Control key. This work on every track list, to add, remove...

Oh, either this is new or I just missed it. Thanks for pointing it out.

Quote

Our  mobile app can't play on DLNA output, but you can use Bubble UPNP to do this with Qobuz. Yes, I am aware of that.

Yes, I have done that, it is better than nothing.

Quote

 

Regards

What is most nettlesome is that both Q and T have chosen to assemble huge libraries of music, which has unique cataloging requirements, without the thought to hire a professional cataloging specialist (librarian) to devise a workable metadata system and a method for applying it. This hardly affects pop music, but in classical music, it is a real drag. "Artist" might refer in your database to the composer, ensemble, conductor, soloist (or something else), with no rhyme or reason. Some discs are searchable by composer, some are not. Some are searchable only by title (good luck!). Tracks on multi-work discs often are tagged simply "I. Allegro; II. Andante; III. Presto; I. Allegro; II. Adagio; III. Scherzo; IV. Allegro molto" and so on. If one has some knowledge of what's on the disk, one can sometimes figure out what is what, but often not. I suppose I just have to accept that Q and T have outsourced their cataloging to Roon, and that the services are not meant to be useful for classical music without a $500 Roon subscription and a $2500 NUC to run it on.

[Polyglot]

1 hour ago, Mike48 said:

My point wasn't what you listen to. It was that the interface and tagging flaws seem obvious to me, and I'd think them obvious to anyone using Qobuz (or Tidal, to be fair) for serious classical listening. Since they don't seem obvious to Qobuz, my conclusion was that no one on the development team uses Q. for classical listening. Perhaps my assumption was wrong, and that people who develop software just tend to minimize its shortcomings.

There was a link to a screenshot in the original post. Please take a look.

Oh, either this is new or I just missed it. Thanks for pointing it out.

Yes, I have done that, it is better than nothing.

What is most nettlesome is that both Q and T have chosen to assemble huge libraries of music, which has unique cataloging requirements, without the thought to hire a professional cataloging specialist (librarian) to devise a workable metadata system and a method for applying it. This hardly affects pop music, but in classical music, it is a real drag. "Artist" might refer in your database to the composer, ensemble, conductor, soloist (or something else), with no rhyme or reason. Some discs are searchable by composer, some are not. Some are searchable only by title (good luck!). Tracks on multi-work discs often are tagged simply "I. Allegro; II. Andante; III. Presto; I. Allegro; II. Adagio; III. Scherzo; IV. Allegro molto" and so on. If one has some knowledge of what's on the disk, one can sometimes figure out what is what, but often not. I suppose I just have to accept that Q and T have outsourced their cataloging to Roon, and that the services are not meant to be useful for classical music without a $500 Roon subscription and a $2500 NUC to run it on.

 

Yes. Tidal and Qobuz are fun to play with, however for serious listening CDs are irreplaceable.

[left channel]

3 hours ago, Mike48 said:

a professional cataloging specialist (librarian) to devise a workable metadata system and a method for applying it.

 

Good point. Just want to add that nowadays they call that type of person an "information architect".

[Jud]

15 hours ago, Mike48 said:

without the thought to hire a professional cataloging specialist (librarian) to devise a workable metadata system and a method for applying it.

 

One problem is that it can't really just be Qobuz or Tidal doing this on their own, unless they put so much money and time into it that they then add a Roon-level cost on top of the current subscription fee. The only practical solution if one doesn't want to go the ultra-expensive route is to adhere to standards, so music and download companies, ripping software, etc., are all on board. But the current metadata standard doesn't work terribly well for the types of classical music cases you describe. So not a simple problem - it goes beyond what an individual company can solve economically.

[left channel]

 

On 6/18/2019 at 11:40 PM, RichardSF said:

 

Send a private message to @David Craff of Qobuz and ask about their Windows pre-release test app that addresses this issue.

 

On 6/19/2019 at 7:22 AM, Cebolla said:

As has already been mentioned, Qobuz have already identified the "very slow W10 Qobuz app" issue and a couple of weeks ago supplied a test release with a fix, for willing volunteers with the problem:

 

Thank you @RichardSF & @Cebolla! I've been so busy recently, I thought I'd missed the opportunity and that the most recent 5.0.4 update was already that version. But the test release is 5.0.5, and I am playing with it now.

 

Vast improvement! Even on my low-power Celeron streamer, the performance speed is now mostly smooth and responsive. On my i7 workstation, the performance is even better. There are bugs of course, but of a type to be expected, and I have provided a full report with console logs to David. @_JL_ have you had a chance to try it yet? 

[Peter Hyatt]

5.0.5 ?

 

I'd like to try!

[left channel]

41 minutes ago, Peter Hyatt said:

5.0.5 ?

 

I'd like to try!

 

Send a PM to @David Craff to request the test version, and let us know how it works for you!

[Miska]

19 hours ago, left channel said:

Good point. Just want to add that nowadays they call that type of person an "information architect".

 

...and then you only need to get all the record companies adhere to your newly invented standard...

 

ID3v2 and Vorbis Comments are already good, but completely screwed up by most of the mainstream software.

 

Problem with "information architect", or something one could call "designed by a committee" is something that is in fact unworkable in practice because the ones who designed never had to implement or apply it to harsh reality. That has been seen in some IETF and other standards before.

 

Good example of this is already definition of "genre" for a particular piece of music. Quite typically such information is very inconsistent.

 

 

[Mike48]

13 minutes ago, Miska said:

Problem with "information architect", or something one could call "designed by a committee" is something that is in fact unworkable in practice because the ones who designed never had to implement or apply it to harsh reality. That has been seen in some IETF and other standards before.

 

Exactly why it needs to be done by a professional cataloger, a specialty of library science. Cataloging is, for the most part, a solved problem!  But the solution was not by Apple (who decided to identify each track by an "Artist"), but by professional librarians.

 

Librarians apply established principles to new problems to solve the basic issue of cataloging: How can I label this thing so that it can be found again?

 

Of course, there is significant cost to do cataloging optimally, and it might be too much for outfits like Q and T.  I suspect, though, that since cataloging is being done anyway, it could be done way better with a little more thought applied to the problem.

[left channel]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

Problem with "information architect", or something one could call "designed by a committee" 

 

Sorry, I was not referring to standards or committees, but rather to how large corporations and their vendors develop proprietary apps and websites, with or without referring to shared industry standards. An information architect is a person that develops the structural design of an app or website. Further work is then done by a user experience designer and other team members. 

 

1 hour ago, Mike48 said:

Exactly why it needs to be done by a professional cataloger, a specialty of library science.

 

Many schools of library science have at this point been merged with information science. Librarians are now often employed as information specialists. Information architects and information researchers work at the intersection of information science and computer science. The right people working at one of these streaming companies could pull all the necessary pieces together.

[_JL_]

8 hours ago, left channel said:

@_JL_ have you had a chance to try it yet? 

 

Yes, happy to report that it solves the slow response problem. Looking forward to the production version.

[firedog]

On 6/20/2019 at 5:47 PM, mbain said:

Anyone know how to view your Qobuz cart and arrange payment from a window that is in English.  The French payment windows always refuse a credit card payment or a Paypal payment.

AFAIK, Qobuz now has a system in place where your CC and user account have to be from the same country. Even at PayPal. I think you can get around this via PayPal by choosing your default payment method once the account is in place, but not during the setup of the account. At least that's what happened with me. 
You can write Qobuz and ask them to help setting up or transferring your account to a suitable account if you have issues. They did this for other users who had old French accounts and moved to Qobuz US. 

[David Craff]

On 6/22/2019 at 1:07 AM, Mike48 said:

My point wasn't what you listen to. It was that the interface and tagging flaws seem obvious to me, and I'd think them obvious to anyone using Qobuz (or Tidal, to be fair) for serious classical listening. Since they don't seem obvious to Qobuz, my conclusion was that no one on the development team uses Q. for classical listening. Perhaps my assumption was wrong, and that people who develop software just tend to minimize its shortcomings.

 

Many people at Qobuz are fans of classical music and use Qobuz applications.

Classical and other genres have different expectations. As we are a generalist, we must be pleasant in all cases. But we know that we have improvements to make, most often dictated by the classic genre.
It is also important not to forget the data problems when receiving a product from a supplier / label. It is far from perfect.

 

On 6/22/2019 at 1:07 AM, Mike48 said:

There was a link to a screenshot in the original post. Please take a look.

 

For this issue, we will launch a new playqueue this summer. I will do my best to have a correct display. 

 

To be noted: 
A track is composed of 3 information fields:
- The work
- The title
- The version

 

Sometimes the supplier will correctly fill in the 3 fields sometimes he will only provide the Title field with the values of the work of the title and the version. In this case it will be complicated to have a correct display.

 

You example is one of the release not send correctly : https://rec-play.qobuz.com/album/0724356219854  even is the supplier used the DDEX Format.

 

A lot of cleaning work is required to get a perfect catalogue. We are doing our best to ensure that this is the case.

 

On 6/22/2019 at 1:07 AM, Mike48 said:

Oh, either this is new or I just missed it. Thanks for pointing it out.

You missed it, it was implemented from the beginning

 

On 6/22/2019 at 1:07 AM, Mike48 said:

I suppose I just have to accept that Q and T have outsourced their cataloging to Roon, and that the services are not meant to be useful for classical music without a $500 Roon subscription and a $2500 NUC to run it on.

You are free to think what you want. We are partners with Roon but that does not mean that we will not do what is necessary to improve our interface, our content, our metadata etc....