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3 minutes ago, dmackta said:

If you plan to use the files outside of the Qobuz app, then you should download the TAR file from the website, unzip, and enjoy. 

https://www.loom.com/share/f809b292b68842c994482078c41b1238

 

 

So it appears.  It’s just frustrating to have such an unpleasant experience on first encounter.

 

Right now the files from prior downloads are on three different hard drives (my having copied them to my music server and two backups on other machines).  I’ll try to download the TAR versions as well just in case.

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1 hour ago, jegreenwood said:

So it appears.  It’s just frustrating to have such an unpleasant experience on first encounter.

 

Right now the files from prior downloads are on three different hard drives (my having copied them to my music server and two backups on other machines).  I’ll try to download the TAR versions as well just in case.

 

There are 2 different actions when you are a Qobuz customer, as far as I know:

 

  1. You can buy music and in this case you don't even need a Qobuz account or anything else than using the website, purchase using whatever paying method is allowed and download the files (the tar) and those files are now yours to enjoy with whatever music player supports the format (I guess all, nowadays).
     
  2. You are a Qobuz plan subscriber and using the desktop/mobile app you can both use the streaming function AND, if you want, buy files.

    These will appear in the "purchased" tab but it's just a...tab, they would be streamed (and cached) if you press play exactly like any other file, depending on how much disk space you allocate for the cache.

    The download command instead is to keep them in the app (instead of in the cache) without using the network to stream the album again and again, or just to have them shown there (you might have hundreds of purchased albums but only want a bunch on your disk *to be listened offline via the app*).

    This is not supposed to be a "download the files so I can use them whenever I want".

    If you log out the app, all your data are deleted from it (this seems obvious to me) until you login again.

 

So, unless you are a streaming plan subscriber or are in the trial period, you can uninstall and forget about the desktop app, and purchase the files via the website.

 

Hope it helps 🙂

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1 hour ago, maramara said:

 

There are 2 different actions when you are a Qobuz customer, as far as I know:

 

  1. You can buy music and in this case you don't even need a Qobuz account or anything else than using the website, purchase using whatever paying method is allowed and download the files (the tar) and those files are now yours to enjoy with whatever music player supports the format (I guess all, nowadays).
     
  2. You are a Qobuz plan subscriber and using the desktop/mobile app you can both use the streaming function AND, if you want, buy files.

    These will appear in the "purchased" tab but it's just a...tab, they would be streamed (and cached) if you press play exactly like any other file, depending on how much disk space you allocate for the cache.

    The download command instead is to keep them in the app (instead of in the cache) without using the network to stream the album again and again, or just to have them shown there (you might have hundreds of purchased albums but only want a bunch on your disk *to be listened offline via the app*).

    This is not supposed to be a "download the files so I can use them whenever I want".

    If you log out the app, all your data are deleted from it (this seems obvious to me) until you login again.

 

So, unless you are a streaming plan subscriber or are in the trial period, you can uninstall and forget about the desktop app, and purchase the files via the website.

 

Hope it helps 🙂

But I don't have a streaming account.  All I can do is buy files.  Which I did through the store on the website.  Which led me to two download choices: download tar files or download through the app.  Why wouldn't it tell me that my purchased files could vanish if I use the app.  I have seen nothing of the sort.  Don't you think a warning is appropriate?


And by the way, the app offers two options import and download.  But as far as I can see, they do the same thing.

 

I know what to do now to keep my files: either download them as tar files or move them to another folder before I exit from Qobuz.  I just don't see the logic in the Qobuz system.

Screenshot (8).png

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1 minute ago, jegreenwood said:

But I don't have a streaming account.  All I can do is buy files.  Which I did through the website.  Which led me to two download choices: download tar files or download through the app.  Why wouldn't it tell me that my purchased files could vanish if I use the app.  I have seen nothing of the sort.  Don't you think a warning is appropriate?


And by the way, the app offers two options import and download.  But as far as I can see, they do the same thing.

 

I know what to do now to keep my files: either download them as tar files or move them to another folder before I exit from Qobuz.  I just don't see the logic in the Qobuz system.

 

I agree, it can be confusing...guess this is one for the Qobuz team to improve for sure. 

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It's quite odd to me to be reading the last several comments, because I've had no difficulty at all using the app to download purchased music, then moving those files to my music drives and playing them using whatever method/app I like.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen -> USPCB -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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1 hour ago, Jud said:

It's quite odd to me to be reading the last several comments, because I've had no difficulty at all using the app to download purchased music, then moving those files to my music drives and playing them using whatever method/app I like.

My experience is like yours.  Once I’ve copied the downloaded files to another directory the copies stay there.  And I can play them using JRiver and the Logitech Media Server.  But the originals will disappear once I log out of Qobuz.  Maybe it’s “works as designed.”  But it doesn’t make sense to me.

 

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22 hours ago, jegreenwood said:

My experience is like yours.  Once I’ve copied the downloaded files to another directory the copies stay there.  And I can play them using JRiver and the Logitech Media Server.  But the originals will disappear once I log out of Qobuz.  Maybe it’s “works as designed.”  But it doesn’t make sense to me.

 

 

Interesting.  I had the impression my originals weren't disappearing, but I've never concentrated that much on the process.  I'll test next time I purchase a download.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen -> USPCB -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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34 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Interesting.  I had the impression my originals weren't disappearing, but I've never concentrated that much on the process.  I'll test next time I purchase a download.

As I’ve said, it makes no sense to me.  What is the point of Qobuz deleting them from one location, when I can keep copies elsewhere.

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On 2/28/2021 at 3:20 PM, jegreenwood said:

Follow up - it has been pointed out to me that the highlighted page in the Qobuz app is the offline library page.  I don't know why that should be the case.  What I did was go to the Purchases page within the app, right-click on the album I wanted to download and select Download.  See first screenshot below.  The other possible choice was Import, but when I tested that choice, the app advised that it would become part of my offline library, which was not what I wanted.

 

Someone suggested I use the website instead.  I did so and went to my purchases page.  Again I selected the album I wanted to download and hit the Download button.  That gave me two options: download using the app or a TAR file.  As I was testing the app, that's what I chose.  Again the files downloaded; I could see them in their appropriate folder.  But once I logged out of Qobuz they disappeared.

 

728807887_Screenshot(7).thumb.png.4861d5a67ba7674d1fb9adc45452e255.png1447659777_Screenshot(8).thumb.png.33a81d4d31ad53896c65c98eff27199c.png

Screenshot (7).png

 

 

Hi,

 

Sorry, I have checked your issue. I will ask the dev team to correct this asap.

For the moment, do not log off from the app and move your downloaded content to another directory.

 

Regards

Qobuz Product Manager for Desktop, Web Player and Search Engine.

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1 hour ago, David Craff said:

 

 

Hi,

 

Sorry, I have checked your issue. I will ask the dev team to correct this asap.

For the moment, do not log off from the app and move your downloaded content to another directory.

 

Regards

Thank you.

 

One more thing, in the course of my troubleshooting, I actually purchased the download twice:

 

Order 35000833 and Order 34996491.  Can you help me obtain a refund?

 
 
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1 minute ago, jegreenwood said:

Thank you.

 

One more thing, in the course of my troubleshooting, I actually purchased the download twice:

 

Order 35000833 and Order 34996491.  Can you help me obtain a refund?

 
 

 

I can't but your can contact our support for that.

 

Regards

Qobuz Product Manager for Desktop, Web Player and Search Engine.

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I heard back from Qobuz support directly.  I was quite surprised that the answer was works as designed (currently).

 

“If you log out of your account on our app, for legal reasons, all downloaded files are deleted. This eventually will only affect music downloaded for streaming not purchases. However, I don't have a timeline that I can currently share with you.”

 

My advice to them was that if this is the case, Qobuz should provide a notice to music purchasers selecting a download method.

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I have been buying music from Qobuz for a long while, and recently took a subscription for the streaming service. I don't use Roon or any other form of library integration. 

 

The "app" on Windows 10 is garbage. Poor navigation, takes ages to initialise, and doesn't seem to handle mixed sample rate file streaming well to my Chord HugoTT2. It seems to get confused and the music replays at low speed so everything is dragged out - an interesting effect, but wears thin quickly. 

 

I shall buy an Audirvana license and see if that works better, otherwise I shall think seriously about cancelling the service which would be a shame.

 

Anyone else suffering this issue? I don't get playback issues with HQPlayer, JRiver (or the trial version of Audirvana) with local content.

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5 minutes ago, LowOrbit said:

I have been buying music from Qobuz for a long while, and recently took a subscription for the streaming service. I don't use Roon or any other form of library integration. 

 

The "app" on Windows 10 is garbage. Poor navigation, takes ages to initialise, and doesn't seem to handle mixed sample rate file streaming well to my Chord HugoTT2. It seems to get confused and the music replays at low speed so everything is dragged out - an interesting effect, but wears thin quickly. 

 

I shall buy an Audirvana license and see if that works better, otherwise I shall think seriously about cancelling the service which would be a shame.

 

Anyone else suffering this issue? I don't get playback issues with HQPlayer, JRiver (or the trial version of Audirvana) with local content.

Limited experience so far, but I’ve been using the Logitech Media Sever to play my Qobuz downloads.  No problem so far.  I’ve also tested them with JRiver without a problem.

 

My two downloads are 5-hour pieces, so I have to be in the mood. 😄

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On 2/19/2021 at 5:13 PM, 111MilesToGo said:

Huge usability issues resulting from the Qobuz way of storing offline contents, at least in the Qobuz Android App

 

I am a Qobuz Studio subsriber for for a number of years now, i.e. a HiRes customer. For a long time, I used it on a Windows PC in stand-alone and in integration within Roon. A while ago, I added an Android DIgital Audio Player to my gear. I do now face the need to address the a.m. topic in public. Please bear with me for writing a long post. I e-mailed the Qobuz support last December and again early January. Answers haven't been entirely satisfactory, in essence "we have forwarded your request to our software engineers, they will follow up on it" and "... they will work on the performance of the app", nothing more as of now. So today I feel a need to "go public" and ask the folks here for your experience, and hopefully get the attention of a Qobuz staff member in order to assist.

 

Qobuz has opted to use the "chunk file method" (similar to YouToube) as one of the methods to provide piracy protection for offline contents ("imported" tracks). Each track is split and stored as a bunch of *.exo chunk files of 2 MB size in the import directory. In fact, these are tiny files as compared to the full size of a track's file, in particular as audo resolution is increasing when going up the HiRes steps.

 

My use case is maybe a bit out of the ordinary, but I do firmly think it is not an abuse: I wanted to follow up on the discography of one artist (Keith Jarrett), so I offlined approx. 100 albums. This resulted in taking up 100 GB of storage as a total of 50,000 (sic!) files, all in the import directory. My audio device is really choking on this, cf. below.

 

Why is offlining of utmost importance to me? I am using a portable Digital Audio Player (DAP), which hooks up to my home WiFi for internet connection. No internet available when out of the house, e.g. in the office. Plus, since it is a battery-powered device, one would like to limit WiFi usage in favor of overall battery life.

 

What are the huge usability issues resulting from this chunk file method? There are several:

  1. My DAP is a Cayin N6ii running Android 8.1
    Sapdragon 425 CPU, 4 GB RAM, 64 GB internal storage
    1 TB SD card SanDisk Extreme Pro (top brand name product) - this storage holds the Qobuz import directory a.o.
    Not exactly the standard of today's smartphones, but still a top product in the niche market of Digital Audio Players.
    Software from Google Play Store, a.o. the Qobuz Android App (latest version 5.15)
  2. At boot-up, it takes Android about 30 minutes (sic!) until it has done the first read of the 50,000 file import directory which resides on the SD card. So I have acquired the habit of switching the N6ii on half an hour before I actually want to start listening.
  3. If I don't do (2), then the Qobuz Android App needs just this amount of time before getting ready for user input. (Wait spinner all the time.)
  4. When I select an album from my offlined contents, the Qobuz Android App takes about 30 seconds to a minute gathering all the file chunks that would make up this album; wait spinner again.
  5. When skipping forward or backwards within one track, or when skipping from one track to another, it takes some 10 seconds or more before replay continues.

I must say that (2), (4) and (5) are huge usability issues which can really spoil the joy of using Qobuz on this Android DAP. I figure this holds for many if not all DAPs, since there are at most a handful of Android DAPs which are closer to top smartphone standards. To my understanding, Qobuz targets demanding listeners, not the general mass audience. Again, my use case of offlining 100 albums is sort of unusual, but no abuse at all.

 

I hope to have explained clearly that there are two types of performance and thus usability issues resulting from the Qobuz way of storing offlined contents: One is due to Android as the OS, the others are due to the Qobuz Android App.

 

I am perfectly aware that the chunk file method is embedded deeply into the app, and that it is needed for piracy protection; thus I reckon it is an element in the licensing contracts with the record companies. But then, Tidal does store its offline contents in an optimum way regarding file system performance, i.e. as one file per one track, most probably encrypted.

 

So my questions and requests are:

  1. What could Qobuz do to improve said performance / usability issues?
  2. Could Qobuz entirely do away with the chunk file method? (Cf. Tidal)
  3. Or could Qobuz reduce the number of chunk files drastically, let's say by a factor of 10 or 5 at least? E.g. by chosing the chunk file size dynamically depending on a track's resolution, instead of the current fixed 2 MB size?
  4. At least, what could Qobuz do to improve their Android App's performance in handling such large numbers of chunk files?

Thank you for patiently reading such a long post, and thanks a lot in advance for feedback, help, and ultimately solutions.

 

PS, not to be omitted: I do absolutely like Qobuz, its repertoire with respect to genres, artists, and albums. And I absolutely cherish their HiRes offerings. Plus, I do appreciate Qobuz supplying pdf booklets - that's the least one can do to recover the old times approach to enjoying music / records and their environment.

 

On 2/20/2021 at 12:56 AM, OutOfBreath said:

 

Hi there,

 

I sent an email to Qobuz about this around an hour ago (before I discovered this forum and post). I have exactly the same issue on my Hiby R5.

 

I really hope they can consider fixing this as it is the only bad thing I have found about the Qobuz service (been on the trial for around a week now). Unfortunately for me it's a bit of a showstopper.

 

I don't know the inner workings of the Android app - but I also suggested that instead of scanning the folder of files that they implement a database to keep track of the files. When a song is requested to be played, it is looked up in the database (which should be quite fast) which points to the correct files to play. I don't know if this is a workable solution or not (does the filesystem in Android need to scan the folder in question to be able to find the files?)- but maybe something worth investigating.

 

Segregating each album (or even artist) into separate folders instead of lumping all of the files into a single folder may also help (assuming they can get around the need to scan the entire card at startup).

 

I'm crossing my fingers for an improvement so I can ditch the *other* service I'm currently using that doesn't appear to have this issue.

 

Regards,

Paul

 

On 2/20/2021 at 2:27 AM, OutOfBreath said:

To add: (I don't think I can edit my posts)

 

The issue will not only affect 'imported' albums, but also the 'cache' which works in the same way.

 

I've set the cache to use 200GB. Over time this will fill up with the albums I listen to. At 2MB per chunk this will end up at around 100,000 files for the application to scan every time the DAP is restarted. Add that to any 'imported' albums and after a while the system will be scanning upwards of a quarter of a million files.

 

 

Just a kind reminder, please. I do strongly feel that this severe issue needs to be commented upon by Qobuz staff. As it was explained, the unwisely chosen brute-force method of piracy protection via tiny chunk files causes dreadful performance of the (Android) App, bringing the usability down. Also be reminded that Tidal does nothing of that kind. Cancelling my Qobuz subscription would be a pity.

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On 3/1/2021 at 1:45 AM, jegreenwood said:

But I don't have a streaming account.  All I can do is buy files.  Which I did through the store on the website.  Which led me to two download choices: download tar files or download through the app.  Why wouldn't it tell me that my purchased files could vanish if I use the app.  I have seen nothing of the sort.  Don't you think a warning is appropriate?


And by the way, the app offers two options import and download.  But as far as I can see, they do the same thing.

 

I know what to do now to keep my files: either download them as tar files or move them to another folder before I exit from Qobuz.  I just don't see the logic in the Qobuz system.

Screenshot (8).png

You should be able to log into the site and download the files again.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Listening: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Matrix Element i Streamer/DAC (XLR)+Schiit Freya>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: RPi 3B+ running RoPieee to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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12 hours ago, LowOrbit said:

The "app" on Windows 10 is garbage. Poor navigation, takes ages to initialise, and doesn't seem to handle mixed sample rate file streaming well to my Chord HugoTT2. It seems to get confused and the music replays at low speed so everything is dragged out - an interesting effect, but wears thin quickly. 

 

I shall buy an Audirvana license and see if that works better, otherwise I shall think seriously about cancelling the service which would be a shame.

 

Anyone else suffering this issue? I don't get playback issues with HQPlayer, JRiver (or the trial version of Audirvana) with local content.

Hang on. Don't throw the baby out with...   Qobuz is almost unique in offering hi res and truly hifi audio without the fuss and faff of MQA.

 

The current version of the W10 application has some bugs which may be causing your sample rate faults. Qobuz reported a fix is due, just a page or so back. This has not been a long-standing problem (as it has been, for example, with the Tidal app playing through the popular "ADI-2 DAC" DAC by RME) and I reckon it is worth believing that a fix is imminent. (Although of course it might not fix your symptom, granted.)

 

I use a RPI/MoOde because the Qobuz W10 app is poor. And that works flawlessly (since the Linux Kernel was "fixed", at any rate). I reckon that Audirvana would also fix your problems, as it does in the similar Tidal bug - but a different option may be to wait "a while".

 

I have requested that Qobuz publish something simple approaching a bug list. They don't do it because they are too under-resourced, or too insecure, or too contemptuous of their customers, or whatever. And there is no interest from others here for this. But here we have one of many examples of where it would help users of some immature software to know what is already known.

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14 hours ago, jegreenwood said:

I heard back from Qobuz support directly.  I was quite surprised that the answer was works as designed (currently).

 

“If you log out of your account on our app, for legal reasons, all downloaded files are deleted. This eventually will only affect music downloaded for streaming not purchases. However, I don't have a timeline that I can currently share with you.”

 

My advice to them was that if this is the case, Qobuz should provide a notice to music purchasers selecting a download method.

 

That's why I never noticed, perhaps - I can't recall logging out of my account on the app.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen -> USPCB -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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5 hours ago, 111MilesToGo said:

To add (no edit function here?): Be aware, a performance hog not only on the Qobuz Android App itself, but in fact the entire Android Digital Audio Player.

This is a test of the edit function.  😀

 

It's available (for a while by clicking the three dots in the upper right corner of your post.

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1 hour ago, Mark Dirac said:

Hang on. Don't throw the baby out with...   Qobuz is almost unique in offering hi res and truly hifi audio without the fuss and faff of MQA.

 

The current version of the W10 application has some bugs which may be causing your sample rate faults. Qobuz reported a fix is due, just a page or so back. This has not been a long-standing problem (as it has been, for example, with the Tidal app playing through the popular "ADI-2 DAC" DAC by RME) and I reckon it is worth believing that a fix is imminent. (Although of course it might not fix your symptom, granted.)

 

I use a RPI/MoOde because the Qobuz W10 app is poor. And that works flawlessly (since the Linux Kernel was "fixed", at any rate). I reckon that Audirvana would also fix your problems, as it does in the similar Tidal bug - but a different option may be to wait "a while".

 

I have requested that Qobuz publish something simple approaching a bug list. They don't do it because they are too under-resourced, or too insecure, or too contemptuous of their customers, or whatever. And there is no interest from others here for this. But here we have one of many examples of where it would help users of some immature software to know what is already known.

Hi Mark

 

I really like Qobuz, don't want to lose what if offers, but need to find a way around this issue (unless they fix it quickly,  but I have no expectation that'll happen). The RPI route is a possibility but I am trying to avoid re-introducing lots of elements prior to the arrival of my Dave dac. When I trialled Qobuz streaming a few months ago I did use the Logitech Media Server integration and it may be worth going back to that, so thanks for the nudge. 

 

However, Audirvana does offer the chance to utilise EQ plugins and decent upsampling along with hopefully a more useable path into Qobuz.

 

A bug list would be nice, but can be a pain to maintain and it does expose your issues publicly which many developers don't like! From what I heard of the Qobuz team on Chris's podcast, they seem like a focussed, enthused and decent bunch, so I want to support them and hope they get their app sorted in time.

 

Mark

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2 minutes ago, Jud said:

If they were contemptuous of their customers

spend yonks of time working with people here.

There have been many occasions when people here have taken the time to experiment with and analyse issues, and then to compose unambiguous, informative issue reports, only to receive a one-line response such as "We already know about that. It will be fixed sometime." Contemptuous.

 

With just a little more forethought and organisation and information, they wouldn't need to spend yonks of time working with people here.

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