Official Qobuz Issues Thread

[Paul R]

48 minutes ago, Sal1950 said:

 

Remember that the multich streaming done on Netflix is done in highly compressed Dolby Digital Plus format. Supposedly capable of doing up to 7.1 channels but I'm not aware of anything beyond 5.1 at this time. Since I haven't been successful in getting Qobuz 5.1 working here, I have no idea what the available datarate is.  Maybe Kal knows, I can't find any documentation on Qobuz 5.1 at all.

@David Craff  maybe you can get someone to supply some technical details on 5.1 and what gear/path is required for proper playback.

TIA

 

I think that Netflix "Ultra HD" streams 7.2 content, with Dolby Atmos.  No idea how much content is available though.

 

-Paul 

 

[Kal Rubinson]

2 hours ago, Sal1950 said:

Remember that the multich streaming done on Netflix is done in highly compressed Dolby Digital Plus format. Supposedly capable of doing up to 7.1 channels but I'm not aware of anything beyond 5.1 at this time. Since I haven't been successful in getting Qobuz 5.1 working here, I have no idea what the available datarate is.  Maybe Kal knows, I can't find any documentation on Qobuz 5.1 at all.

Remember that the compressed DD+ sound stream comes with (often) HD video which is much more of a data load than discrete hi-rez multichannel.  The bandwidth is there.

 

2 hours ago, Sal1950 said:

David Craff  maybe you can get someone to supply some technical details on 5.1 and what gear/path is required for proper playback.

Yes, please.  Also, it would be nice to have some insight into whether Q has more future plans for multichannel.

[bobbmd]

@Sal1950 I don't if this will help but I currently have a 5.1 expanded to 7.1 system- it consists of a Yamaha rx v-2500 avr and a Yamaha dvd-audio sacd dvd cd changer c-750 coupled with an Outlaw Audio ICBM-1( bass manager)

you need ability to connect 5 or 7 separate speaker connections to avr via changer and icbm-1 assume you would need audio stream from Qobuz or other streaming service capable sending 5 channel signal into a DAC out to an avr capable of sending of accepting signal and convert it to analogue

I don't use this system utilizing my dvd-a sacd collection anymore(too much trouble finding the discs taking them out then having to put them away etc-BUT I now send TIDAL/Qobuz by their desktop apps or ROON or Audirvana+3( using MQA masters or HiRes 24/88,96,192 plus my ripped FLAC AIFF and DVD-A SACD library) through same system using ME2 or Gungnir DAC (plus my AVR has multichannel surround(standard and enhanced) prologic PLii music neo 6)-don't know if this is truly 'surround sound' (or i just 'think' it is!) like listening to actual discs but sounds really good to my ears especially with HiRes/MQA streams at least to me so maybe Qobuz doesn't need to offer 5.1per se but I think when I watch Netflix through a fire stick or Apple TV 3rd gen sound is pretty good also but still not same as discs dvd-a sacd cd or dvd sounded in now distant past

[David Craff]

13 hours ago, Sal1950 said:

maybe you can get someone to supply some technical details on 5.1 and what gear/path is required for proper playback.

 

I'm sure that if you buy multichannel album this will work. I have to check if our applications can stream multichannel or only stereo.

[shadowlight]

Anyone know of a documentation/link that shows various searching options under Qobuz?  Couple of pages back David Craff had mentioned "#multichannel" to search for multichannel albums, so looking for other options to be more explicit about search.  Right now all my search is free form.

 

I know this was mentioned previously but is the option to sort the results implemented yet?

[Kal Rubinson]

46 minutes ago, David Craff said:

 

I'm sure that if you buy multichannel album this will work. I have to check if our applications can stream multichannel or only stereo.

I can stream multichannel from Qobuz but not directly from the app.  I stream it via Roon.   From the same tracks, the app will only output stereo.

 

 

[David Craff]

7 minutes ago, shadowlight said:

Anyone know of a documentation/link that shows various searching options under Qobuz?  Couple of pages back David Craff had mentioned "#multichannel" to search for multichannel albums, so looking for other options to be more explicit about search.  Right now all my search is free form.

 

I know this was mentioned previously but is the option to sort the results implemented yet?

 

No documentation yet about search engine. This hashtag filters are being tested and will arrive with the redesign of the search engine in the desktop. I can't share them with you knowing that they change regularly.

#multichannel was only made to meet a need and can be changed later

[Kal Rubinson]

11 hours ago, bobbmd said:

 assume you would need audio stream from Qobuz or other streaming service capable sending 5 channel signal into a DAC out to an avr capable of sending of accepting signal and convert it to analogue

Yes, using ROON or Audirvana+3, you will need a 5-8 channel DAC to get your analog signals.  The least expensive one that I have used is the miniDSP U-DAC8.

[Sal1950]

3 hours ago, Kal Rubinson said:

Yes, using ROON or Audirvana+3, you will need a 5-8 channel DAC to get your analog signals.  The least expensive one that I have used is the miniDSP U-DAC8.

If you get a chance, could you check ROON/Audirana 5.1 over HDMI into your Marantz 8805 or whatever AVR your working with now.

If that's even possible?

TIA

[Kal Rubinson]

2 hours ago, Sal1950 said:

If you get a chance, could you check ROON/Audirana 5.1 over HDMI into your Marantz 8805 or whatever AVR your working with now.    If that's even possible?

Not likely.  Don't really use Audirvana.  Frankly, I do not use Roon except to fool with Qobuz.

[Sevenfeet]

2 hours ago, Sal1950 said:

If you get a chance, could you check ROON/Audirana 5.1 over HDMI into your Marantz 8805 or whatever AVR your working with now.

If that's even possible?

TIA

 

Roon can use HDMI output to a receiver  or other comparable input to send multichannel music.  I do this with an old Mac Mini running Roon client in my sun room off the kitchen.  The Mac Mini feeds HDMI to a Denon X2000 receiver (about five years old).  The Denon cannot do DSD but it handles multichannel PCM very nicely to the 5.1 speakers in the room.

[Sal1950]

1 hour ago, Sevenfeet said:

 

Roon can use HDMI output to a receiver  or other comparable input to send multichannel music.  I do this with an old Mac Mini running Roon client in my sun room off the kitchen.  The Mac Mini feeds HDMI to a Denon X2000 receiver (about five years old).  The Denon cannot do DSD but it handles multichannel PCM very nicely to the 5.1 speakers in the room.

So using that path can you get a 5.1 stream to function with a Qobuz 5.1 file?

[Sal1950]

1 hour ago, Kal Rubinson said:

Not likely.  Don't really use Audirvana.  Frankly, I do not use Roon except to fool with Qobuz.

OK, I thought that was your daily usage since you said Qobuz 5.1 worked with it for you.

[Musicophile]

7 hours ago, David Craff said:

 

No documentation yet about search engine. This hashtag filters are being tested and will arrive with the redesign of the search engine in the desktop. I can't share them with you knowing that they change regularly.

#multichannel was only made to meet a need and can be changed later

David,

 

Please use your influence on this topic to tell Qobuz how much this matters.

 

I really love the service, and have used it for years now, but the search function and, closely linked, the meta tagging of the stuff on offer, could be one of their biggest differentiation factors in the market, especially for classical, but also e.g. differentiating the different remasters of an album.

 

After all, they are targeting classical music lovers and audiophiles, where those things just matter.

 

And at this point, search is still pretty much a mess. If

 

Furthermore, as already flagged previously, I have yet to find an exhaustive list of all new releases, not just the "selection" Qobuz considers relevant.

 

This is still what I consider Qobuz biggest weakness, or maybe not a weakness, but clearly a lack of positive differentiation.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

15 minutes ago, Sal1950 said:

OK, I thought that was your daily usage since you said Qobuz 5.1 worked with it for you.

I do not recall ever saying that.  

 

I have tried Audirvana+3 but only casually.  I responded to another's post about using Qobuz with Audirvana+3 and I told him what hardware he might need.

 

I use JRiver almost exclusively.  It is not Qobuz-friendly and, so far, I have only been able to get stereo piped through from the Qobuz app.

 

I use Roon from time to time for various reasons and it integrates well with Qobuz and the Qobuz/Roon pairing does 5.1 with, so far, two of my DACs.

 

I have not tried any of these Qobuz-related tasks with HDMI to the Marantz because it resides in my CT house and I have not been there in weeks.  I will be there this weekend but there are many chores ahead.  It is unlikely I will get to this one.

 

[#Yoda#]

On 2/21/2019 at 9:46 AM, David Craff said:

 

Hi

 

Of course we do not upsamble albums. We get all albums from supplier and try to check is there was upsambled.

 

Regards

Hi David,

 

to simply try this is not sufficient and usually without consequences. It is the job of Qobuz and other download stores or streaming provider to sell their customers the promised contend in the quality they've paid for. It should not be the job of your customers to verify the quality!

To show how effective the trying is, I've attached a chart of the current Qobuz top album for download and streaming J.S. Odara - Tales Of America. It is labeled as 24/192 but there is no audible content above 28kHz. 24/96 would have been an absolutely adequate resolution. Only Highresaudio.com indicated this as upsampled and is selling and streaming it correctly as 24/96 album. 

 

[Cebolla]

2 hours ago, Kal Rubinson said:

I use JRiver almost exclusively.  It is not Qobuz-friendly and, so far, I have only been able to get stereo piped through from the Qobuz app.

 

If you switch on JRiver's DLNA Renderer, you should be able to get it to stream audio tracks (including the 5.1 ones) from Qobuz's online server using a Qobuz supporting UPnP/DLNA controller, such as the mConnect Player app (iOS or Android) or the BubbleUPnP Android app.

[Kal Rubinson]

23 minutes ago, Cebolla said:

If you switch on JRiver's DLNA Renderer, you should be able to get it to stream audio tracks (including the 5.1 ones) from Qobuz's online server using a Qobuz supporting UPnP/DLNA controller, such as the mConnect Player app (iOS or Android) or the BubbleUPnP Android app.

I am not sure how to do this but I will look into it.

[Sevenfeet]

4 hours ago, Sal1950 said:

So using that path can you get a 5.1 stream to function with a Qobuz 5.1 file?

 

In theory.  I don't subscribe to Qobuz so I can't say for sure and I don't think Tidal has any multichannel files.  But it does work for local 5.1 music in my library, all of which came from SACD of DVD-A rips.  Receivers are an often available DAC for multichannel music since they are designed to do multichannel out of the box.  It's not going to sound as nice as an Exasound 38, but if you have a computer running Roon client or Core next to your receiver, it's a easy way to do multichannel music.

 

If you have an Oppo 205, it's HDMI input would work too and process it through a better DAC than most receivers.

[Sal1950]

13 hours ago, Kal Rubinson said:

I can stream multichannel from Qobuz but not directly from the app.  I stream it via Roon.   From the same tracks, the app will only output stereo.

 

 

13 hours ago, Kal Rubinson said:

Yes, using ROON or Audirvana+3, you will need a 5-8 channel DAC to get your analog signals.

 

5 hours ago, Kal Rubinson said:

I do not recall ever saying that.  

Guess I misunderstood?

In any case, just trying to track down the conditions under which the Qobuz 5.1 streaming actually works.

What method of digital transport did you use from the Roon computer to the DACs?

 

[BrokeLinuxPhile]

 

4 hours ago, #Yoda# said:

to simply try this is not sufficient and usually without consequences. It is the job of Qobuz and other download stores or streaming provider to sell their customers the promised contend in the quality they've paid for. It should not be the job of your customers to verify the quality!

 

I'm not so sure that this falls on Qobuz, and more on the label supplying the files.  The labels are the ones committing fraud if they aren't providing product as labelled to a distributor.  If someone sold fake budweiser to your liquor store, it's not the liquor store's fault. 

 

Qobuz will be at fault here, IMO, if they don't refund money after you complain of mislabelled downloads.  If they refund the your money, but leave the album available mislabelled for others to be duped, that's when they have a problem on their hands.

 

What is the policy?  If I buy a mislabelled album do i get my money back?

 

 

[Jud]

7 hours ago, #Yoda# said:

Hi David,

 

to simply try this is not sufficient and usually without consequences. It is the job of Qobuz and other download stores or streaming provider to sell their customers the promised contend in the quality they've paid for. It should not be the job of your customers to verify the quality!

To show how effective the trying is, I've attached a chart of the current Qobuz top album for download and streaming J.S. Odara - Tales Of America. It is labeled as 24/192 but there is no audible content above 28kHz. 24/96 would have been an absolutely adequate resolution. Only Highresaudio.com indicated this as upsampled and is selling and streaming it correctly as 24/96 album. 

 

 

Besides ultrasonics at various frequencies, is there anything else that signifies to you what the original resolution of a musical piece was?

[Musicophile]

3 hours ago, BrokeLinuxPhile said:

 

 

I'm not so sure that this falls on Qobuz, and more on the label supplying the files.  The labels are the ones committing fraud if they aren't providing product as labelled to a distributor.  If someone sold fake budweiser to your liquor store, it's not the liquor store's fault. 

 

Qobuz will be at fault here, IMO, if they don't refund money after you complain of mislabelled downloads.  If they refund the your money, but leave the album available mislabelled for others to be duped, that's when they have a problem on their hands.

 

What is the policy?  If I buy a mislabelled album do i get my money back?

 

 

Whenever I flagged an upsampled album I just purchased was able to choose another one for free, so Qobuz customer service is doing fine. I’ve only had a handful of cases, some true upsampling, some just mislabeled, but I oäalso only buy classical and Jazz, and Most of the upsampled cases seem to concern classic rock remasters. 

 

I’d presume sure you could get your money back as well if you  prefer.

[church_mouse]

3 hours ago, Musicophile said:

Whenever I flagged an upsampled album I just purchased was able to choose another one for free, so Qobuz customer service is doing fine. I’ve only had a handful of cases, some true upsampling, some just mislabeled, but I oäalso only buy classical and Jazz, and Most of the upsampled cases seem to concern classic rock remasters. 

 

I’d presume sure you could get your money back as well if you  prefer.

@Musicophile  I am curious if you noted whether Qobuz stopped selling the upsampled album after you had flagged up the error?

[Cebolla]

10 hours ago, Kal Rubinson said:

I am not sure how to do this but I will look into it.

 

Enabling JRMC's DLNA renderer is straight forward enough:

 

 

Unfortunately, I can't think of a Qobuz supporting standard UPnP/DLNA controller application for the Mac, if you'd rather not use a handheld device as the user interface.

 

However, there is a Mac version of the Qobuz supporting Linn Kazoo controller, but that's strictly for use with OpenHome (aka UPnP with Linn extensions) streamers. So you have the added complication of also having to install the BubbleUPnP Server helper software on the Mac and configure it to create an OpenHome renderer for JRiver's DLNA renderer (not forgetting to set the Qobuz audio quality to the required setting and enabling gapless playback):

BubbleUPnP Server - Creating OpenHome renderers