Official Qobuz Issues Thread

[DarginMahkum]

On 2/19/2021 at 5:13 PM, 111MilesToGo said:

Huge usability issues resulting from the Qobuz way of storing offline contents, at least in the Qobuz Android App

 

I am a Qobuz Studio subsriber for for a number of years now, i.e. a HiRes customer. For a long time, I used it on a Windows PC in stand-alone and in integration within Roon. A while ago, I added an Android DIgital Audio Player to my gear. I do now face the need to address the a.m. topic in public. Please bear with me for writing a long post. I e-mailed the Qobuz support last December and again early January. Answers haven't been entirely satisfactory, in essence "we have forwarded your request to our software engineers, they will follow up on it" and "... they will work on the performance of the app", nothing more as of now. So today I feel a need to "go public" and ask the folks here for your experience, and hopefully get the attention of a Qobuz staff member in order to assist.

 

Qobuz has opted to use the "chunk file method" (similar to YouToube) as one of the methods to provide piracy protection for offline contents ("imported" tracks). Each track is split and stored as a bunch of *.exo chunk files of 2 MB size in the import directory. In fact, these are tiny files as compared to the full size of a track's file, in particular as audo resolution is increasing when going up the HiRes steps.

 

My use case is maybe a bit out of the ordinary, but I do firmly think it is not an abuse: I wanted to follow up on the discography of one artist (Keith Jarrett), so I offlined approx. 100 albums. This resulted in taking up 100 GB of storage as a total of 50,000 (sic!) files, all in the import directory. My audio device is really choking on this, cf. below.

 

Why is offlining of utmost importance to me? I am using a portable Digital Audio Player (DAP), which hooks up to my home WiFi for internet connection. No internet available when out of the house, e.g. in the office. Plus, since it is a battery-powered device, one would like to limit WiFi usage in favor of overall battery life.

 

What are the huge usability issues resulting from this chunk file method? There are several:

1. My DAP is a Cayin N6ii running Android 8.1
   Sapdragon 425 CPU, 4 GB RAM, 64 GB internal storage
   1 TB SD card SanDisk Extreme Pro (top brand name product) - this storage holds the Qobuz import directory a.o.
   Not exactly the standard of today's smartphones, but still a top product in the niche market of Digital Audio Players.
   Software from Google Play Store, a.o. the Qobuz Android App (latest version 5.15)
2. At boot-up, it takes Android about 30 minutes (sic!) until it has done the first read of the 50,000 file import directory which resides on the SD card. So I have acquired the habit of switching the N6ii on half an hour before I actually want to start listening.
3. If I don't do (2), then the Qobuz Android App needs just this amount of time before getting ready for user input. (Wait spinner all the time.)
4. When I select an album from my offlined contents, the Qobuz Android App takes about 30 seconds to a minute gathering all the file chunks that would make up this album; wait spinner again.
5. When skipping forward or backwards within one track, or when skipping from one track to another, it takes some 10 seconds or more before replay continues.

I must say that (2), (4) and (5) are huge usability issues which can really spoil the joy of using Qobuz on this Android DAP. I figure this holds for many if not all DAPs, since there are at most a handful of Android DAPs which are closer to top smartphone standards. To my understanding, Qobuz targets demanding listeners, not the general mass audience. Again, my use case of offlining 100 albums is sort of unusual, but no abuse at all.

 

I hope to have explained clearly that there are two types of performance and thus usability issues resulting from the Qobuz way of storing offlined contents: One is due to Android as the OS, the others are due to the Qobuz Android App.

 

I am perfectly aware that the chunk file method is embedded deeply into the app, and that it is needed for piracy protection; thus I reckon it is an element in the licensing contracts with the record companies. But then, Tidal does store its offline contents in an optimum way regarding file system performance, i.e. as one file per one track, most probably encrypted.

 

So my questions and requests are:

1. What could Qobuz do to improve said performance / usability issues?
2. Could Qobuz entirely do away with the chunk file method? (Cf. Tidal)
3. Or could Qobuz reduce the number of chunk files drastically, let's say by a factor of 10 or 5 at least? E.g. by chosing the chunk file size dynamically depending on a track's resolution, instead of the current fixed 2 MB size?
4. At least, what could Qobuz do to improve their Android App's performance in handling such large numbers of chunk files?

Thank you for patiently reading such a long post, and thanks a lot in advance for feedback, help, and ultimately solutions.

 

PS, not to be omitted: I do absolutely like Qobuz, its repertoire with respect to genres, artists, and albums. And I absolutely cherish their HiRes offerings. Plus, I do appreciate Qobuz supplying pdf booklets - that's the least one can do to recover the old times approach to enjoying music / records and their environment.

 

Dear @David Craff, are you following up this issue? It is a serious performance bottleneck for DAP users. Can you please be so kind to consider this as a priority one, at least pass it to the software team for analysis? These days +100 GB imports are not unusual, and 2 MB chunks are too tiny when we have tens of thousands of them lying around to be organized before being able to play them, on a portable device.

 

Thank you.

 

[DarginMahkum]

34 minutes ago, David Craff said:

 

Android team tell me that they are aware about this issue. This will be manage in the Step 3 or 4 of the player refactoring. No date for the moment, the refacto will begin on april.

 

Regards

 

Perfect, thank you David.

[DarginMahkum]

14 hours ago, 111MilesToGo said:

Qobuz Android App Version 6.0 - Catastrophic screw-up

 

I updated my Qobuz Android App on my Cayin N6ii DAP to version 6.0.0.4 today. Prior to that I had the last series-5 version, 5.20.0.1, which had worked "well" (which means in the known way, but according to my currently quite limited expectations). This version 6 is a gigantic and catastrophic screw-up - believe me, these words are not enough to fully represent my surprise and anger, but words appropriate for the feelings would NOT be appropriate for writing.

 

I should like to bring this directly to the attention of @David Craff and Dan Mackta @dmackta. I feel this urgency is justified due to the long history of serious Qobuz software issues and inadequacies.

 

Up-front remark: It might well be possible that my observations are limited to the Cayin N6ii Digital Audio Player, even if version 5.20 had functioned as it should. I would be happy if others users of other DAPs could check the behavior of Version 6, please.

 

Myself, I am going to wait for a very short while. Thereafter I will resort to the Qobuz Android App version 5.20.0.1 as available e.g. on APKMirror. Since sideloading would be first for me, I hope to have made sure enough how it should be done beforehand.

 

My observations:

 

1.) I cannot play any HiRes tracks anymore - to be precise, almost none

 

Worst things first: Despite having a Studio Premier subscription, I cannot play HiRes tracks anymore. For example, trying to stream and play that Tom Petty 24/96 album which is the first one of the New Albums this week, it just doesn't start. Same failure for a HiRes album which I have among my favorites. I came across one or two HiRes albums that would play, though, but I strongly suspect I had played them before from version 5 of the app such that they would be left in the cache (cf. issue 2 below).

 

When I set the Streaming Resolution to be 16/44.1 in the Qobuz app preferences, I can stream and play these albums perfectly fine - limited to CD quality, of course.

 

The same failure occurs when I import those albums today. No imported HiRes would play, the same album imported as CD quality plays.

 

Dear David, I can imagine faintly that your Android software people were trying to do something with respect to that infamous HiRes issue which @DarginMahkum and I brought to your attention in our private thread here on AS. If that were true, then I conclude they put horrible regressions into the code.

 

2.) I cannot clear the cache anymore

 

As I wanted to check playing some HiRes tracks from streaming instead of from the local cache, I wanted to entirely clear the cache, which resides on my SD card. I simply can't do that anymore. No matter what resolution I chose to delete (CD or HiRes), nothing happens. The cache remains filled.

 

3.) Offlined ("imported") tracks have a somewhat bigger chunk file size now, by still by far inappropriate

 

As I had complained bitterly here on this thread some time ago about the Qobuz way of storing imported offlined tracks, I checked into that matter today, too. Previously, imported tracks were stored in lots of chunk files, each 2 MB in size. A horrible concept, since for example 100 imported albums with a total size of 100 GB end up as 50,000 chunk files on the SD card. At boot and at various times of using my DAP, it took Android approx. 15 minutes to read the SD card directory. Of course, the chunk file concept gets increasingly terrible with increasing audio track resolution, i.e. number of chunk files er track. Horrendous!

 

Following that discovery, I had given up on importing any album since long. But of course we are paying for that feature ...

 

So I imported a few albums today and checked the download directory. The chunk file concept is still being used, albeit I see different file sizes today, ranging from the original 2 MB to 3.4 MB and "even" 5 MB.

 

OMG, if that is a Qobuz attempt to make Android devices read the import directory faster, then that BY FAR still is awfully inappropriate. Chunk file sizes should be increased in such a way as to decrease the number of chunk files BY A FACTOR OF 10 OR MORE. Chosing different chunk file sizes for different track resolutions would help greatly to fulfill both the anti-piracy needs and the useability of the Android devices.

 

I do sincerely hope these issues get resolved as soon as possible. I should really like to be informed here when you think these issues have been solved completely. Dear Qobuz people, I should like to point out time and again that Qobuz has singular offering for my audio desires which I endorse. But even my patience is not unlimited. Can you feel the heat from your competitors coming closer and closer in your back?

 

 

 

I have Qobuz Beta (6.0.0.4)  on my DX300 with Andoid 9. Similarly, it stopped playing HiRes audio and I thought it was something to do with beta software, but apparently it is not. I did't try all the scenarios but the big issue of not playing HiRes audio (44.1 kHz audio is OK) is there. Playing via UAPP (without import) works fine, so it is a Qobuz Android application issue for sure.

 

I think we need an immediate support here.

[DarginMahkum]

@David Craff maybe it is time for you people to get a DAP like DX300 and have your software tested on it before releasing to the public?