Official Qobuz Issues Thread

[austinpop]

On 7/27/2018 at 5:15 PM, rickca said:

@David.. Qobuz, Hi-Res Music Evangelist I have been using Qobuz for 3 years now.  I switched from TIDAL and never looked back.  Obviously, I'm very satisfied with Qobuz.

 

I will want to change my account from France to the USA (let's just say I'm relocating).  Will I need to set up a new USA account and cancel my existing account in France, or is there going to be a smoother way to transition?

 

 

 

Bienvenue aux États Unis, Rick!

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9 hours ago, David.. Qobuz, Hi-Res Music Evangelist said:

Hello everyone, We have several shows we'll be attending. Each has named Qobuz the official hi-res streaming service of the show. Our first will be Rocky Mountain Audio Fest, followed by NY Audio Show and Capital Audiofest in November. Hopefull some of you can make it to one of these shows where we can meet in person.

 

Hi David, I’ll be at RMAF, so will look forward to meeting you in person.

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5 hours ago, Jud said:

 

I was really looking forward to making it this year, but we have out of town guests.  Next year.

 

Bummer, Jud! 

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I just sent this note to (address removed at request of Qobuz)

 

Have others seen this kind of issue before?

 

========

Incorrect format

 

All of the Mahler albums by Michael Tilson Thomas and the SF Symphony - here is just one example: https://open.qobuz.com/album/0821936001226- are tagged as being in 24/96 high-resolution. However, when I play them back, they come up as Redbook 16/44.1. This is not true of other high-res content that plays just fine.

 

Also, the following album https://open.qobuz.com/album/7318599922263 is tagged as being 24/96, but only plays back as MP3 320kbps!

 

Please let me know if these issues can be fixed.

============

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Through the good offices of @The Computer Audiophile and @David.. Qobuz, Hi-Res Music Evangelist, I have been given trial access to Qobuz Sublime+. Having used it for a couple days, I thought I'd post my impressions so far.

 

My focus is classical music, and I have also been focussed on high-resolution content. Not because I don't listen to Redbook, but I want to assess the availability of high-res content in particular, as that is one of the selling points. I'm using the Qobuz app support in LMS that's built in to my Innuos Zenith SE server. While this isn't my preferred experience - I use Roon primarily - this works fine for now. I use a somewhat disjointed approach to finding content using the Qobuz desktop app on MacOS, tagging albums I want to listen to as Favorites, and then locating them during playback using the iPeng app controlling LMS. Not ideal, but tolerable, knowing Roon is coming,

 

One feature I'd urgently suggest to Qobuz is to provide a way to filter and sort search results. Sorting is available in some areas of the app, but not others. I would love to filter results by resolution - i.e. only results that are high-resolution.

 

I sure hope the rumors of Roon integration with Qobuz are true, and there again, my fervent suggestion to Qobuz would be to ensure from day 1 that high-res content was clearly identifiable in Roon. I can't tell you how frustrating it was to not have Tidal MQA content visible in Roon. Not that I'm promoting MQA - just saying that high-resolution results need to be visible from day 1.

 

As regards Qobuz content. I used the Soundiiz service referenced in Chris's excellent article to migrate my Tidal favorites and playlists to Qobuz. I am going to equate MQA content on Tidal with high-res content on Qobuz - again, not because I believe MQA to have inherent value, but because both are value-adds on their respective platforms. I had a lot of MQA albums tagged as favorites in Tidal. I was gratified to find that most of them (I'd say > 90%) had high-resolution counterparts on Qobuz. So to the extent that MQA content on Tidal is a proxy for high-resolution music, Qobuz seems to have that well-covered.

 

But from this point on, Qobuz left Tidal in the dust. Again, speaking from the perspective of a classical music lover, the sheer amount of high-resolution content on Qobuz was far greater than MQA content on Tidal. For example, take symphonies by Mahler. There are exactly 0 MQA versions of Mahler Symphony 3, while on Qobuz, I count 5 or more high-resolution versions. This is just one example. But the pattern is repeated over and over. Take Haydn's The Creation (Die Schöpfung). There is exactly 1 MQA version of this album on Tidal. Just a quick count of Qobuz yields at least 7 high-res versions.

 

I can't comment yet on sound quality. I'm not really expecting the same lossless track on Tidal and Qobuz to sound different, but it wouldn't surprise me. I will defer this kind of testing until Roon integration happens. Until then, I'm focusing on content.

 

And based on that criterion, even after just a couple days of exploration, Qobuz is light years ahead of Tidal.

 

With all that said, Qobuz is far from perfect. I hope to see a continued focus on usability on their app, including the missing features I highlighted.

 

But all in all - bravo, Qobuz!

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6 minutes ago, rickca said:

Do you have high res (24-bit) streaming?  If so, it's Sublime +.  Or were you just looking at downloads available to buy?

 

Yes I have high res streaming up to 24/192. 

 

So it’s Sublime-r!

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3 minutes ago, rickca said:

OK my point is that Qobuz offers Sublime and Sublime + subscriptions.  Only Sublime + offers high res streaming.  So your post should say you have a trial subscription to Sublime +.  It's more expensive than Sublime.

 

Understood. I fixed my post accordingly.

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3 hours ago, hsmeets said:

Hi David,

 

One small suggestion:

 

Qobuz Management should convince the dutch 'Channel Classics' label to allow streaming of their catalog.

 

As with ECM that would be a great addition.

 

Thanks,

 

Huib

 

+1 for Channel Classics. I’ve also requested 2L.

 

As for ECM, isn’t it available? I thought I saw Keith Jarrett and Anouar Brahem, but I didn’t try streaming them.

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I heard back from Qobuz overnight about the incorrect sample rate, and in the case of the Osmo Vänskä album, what's there are actually short MP3 320k samples. Apparently, all of this is due to "label restrictions."

 

Quote

For the label 2L, there is currently a distribution switch for this label so we hope to have it back on Qobuz soon.

 

For the streaming in HiRes for the SFS release, this is because the label is not part yet of our HiRes streaming offer. Indeed, there are still some content that you can't stream in HiRes.

However, they should be soon on board as they are (also) switching their distribution partner.

 

Regarding the Osmo Vänskä's releases, this is because the label didn't allow the streaming for this title. Therfore you only have the 30sec MP3 previews.

 

This morning I was curious about Channel Classics, so I pulled up some Rachel Podger albums. They "look" like they're in the catalog, ready to play:

 

But when you actually select a track, you get the 30-sec MP3 sample.

 

So the big issue Qobuz need to solve very soon is: transparency. We all understand label restrictions and distribution agreements and what not, but please just display the restrictions accurately. If an album is not yet streamable, indicate this clearly. If it is limited by the label to be streamed at 16/44.1, don't mark it as Hi-Res Audio!

 

Like most consumers, there is nothing I hate more than bait and switch.

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1 hour ago, rodrigaj said:

@austinpop

I totally agree with this.

 

One of the things I began noticing with Tidal was the increase in 96kbs offerings even as a HIFI subscriber. No indication prior to playing that you were getting such low quality streaming. Podger on Channel Classics was definitely one of those offerings.

 

I suppose one can argue that listening to the whole recording at 96kbs is better than a 30 sec sample, so in this respect Tidal is better than Qobuz.

 

 

 

27 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

This is really lame. As @austinpop pointed out, playing mp3 and only a snippet of the tracks. Just tell me I can't stream the album.

 

@David.. Qobuz, Hi-Res Music Evangelist Please help on this one. It was a Tidal favorite, that came over when I used Soundiiz. Soundiiz said it had a match so I thought oh cool. Now I go to play it and it not only says High Resolution, but I can't even play it because only 30 second snippets are allowed and they are mp3 as well. Bait and switch. Not cool, but I'm not up in arms or leaving the service. Just something that is annoying.

 

Guys, let’s let Qobuz offer up an explanation and a resolution, if any. From what I can tell, it appears their UI reflects what’s available to buy, not necessarily what’s available to stream.

 

My hope is that their plans for US launch also include improvements to their platform and business model. After all, that’s why they have hired folks like @David.. Qobuz, Hi-Res Music Evangelist

 

I’m ready to give them the benefit of the doubt. For now.

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4 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

There are three versions of 1989 available (see screenshot). The high resolution version is the one Soudiiz favorited, but that's the only one that won't stream of the three. Not the end of the world, the high res is only 24/44.1 and I'd be shocked if anything close to 16 bits of dynamic range is used on this recording. Plus, now I know to check for this if it happens again.

 

 

Only 16 bits of dynamic range?! What are we ... in 1989?

 

oh wait...  

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23 minutes ago, David.. Qobuz, Hi-Res Music Evangelist said:

Hi everyone, I wanted to let you know that I'll be out of the office all next week at CEDIA. If I'm a little slow on the uptake, please forgive. 

 

Hi David,

 

The big open question from me, Chris, and several others here - that you have not addressed - is the "incorrect" labeling of albums as "Hi-Res," when it turns out the stream content is not - either it is Redbook, or in some cases, just samples.

 

I say "incorrect" in quotes because perhaps this is a difference in perspective between us, streaming users, and say, download buyers. It appears in the cases cited, the content was indeed purchasable in high-res, just not enabled for streaming.

 

I understand the business forces that drive these - the question for you, and Qobuz, as you poise for launch in the US is this - what do you guys plan to do about this?

 

My perspective - I suspect it is shared by many potential subscribers - is that the content should accurately reflect what is streamable. An even better option would be to show both - the highest streamable format, and the highest purchasable format.

 

It sounds like you are swamped. I am hoping that you and Chris @The Computer Audiophile will have a chance to discuss this in person at Cedia. Chris, please update us.  

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Hi David,

 

2 minutes ago, David.. Qobuz, Hi-Res Music Evangelist said:

You see the sampling rate and word depth upon hitting play.

 

I hope you've appreciated why  from a streaming user's perspective, this is far too late? You want them to know before they hit play what resolution to expect... and the playback resolution should match what they've been shown on the display. Always.

 

2 minutes ago, David.. Qobuz, Hi-Res Music Evangelist said:

This is a simple coding mistake and is being addressed.

 

Very encouraging to hear, although it will be good to understand what is being addressed - just making the labels accurate, or solving the underlying agreements with the content providers to allow hi-res streaming of their content. Both are necessary.

 

2 minutes ago, David.. Qobuz, Hi-Res Music Evangelist said:

Thanks for your patience. 

 

For now, definitely. We realize you are still pre-launch in the US.

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There is an ongoing Qobuz discussion over on the Official Qobuz Support thread. I posted my impressions here, relative to Tidal:

 

 

[austinpop]

Some dreams could already have come true! Regarding this:

 

4 hours ago, mourip said:

Wish List.

1. 2. Addition of "Golden Age of Stereo" 50's and 60's Classical titles from RCA. Mercury, Everest, Decca, Melodiya, EMI

 

One can dream ?

 

Some of these are already available. 

 

RCA:

 

Very broad, I assume you RCA Living Stereo, like this one?

If so, clearly some are available, but of course this gets complicated once you get into specific remasters - for example the Analogue Production SACDs of these iconic recordings. These don't appear to be those, but hard to say. 

 

Mercury:

 

I'm assuming you mean Mercury Living Presence, like this one?

 

The above is hi-res, but sadly this one is not:

 

Also, you'll note these are categorized under Decca Music Group Ltd. Not sure why, but assuming Mercury Living Presence is under their umbrella. Again, Qobuz is only good up to a point, but once you get into specialized remasters, I think that's very hard to isolate.

 

Decca:

Again, this is too broad, but I do see a lot of great Decca recordings in hi-res, though not specifically from the golden age. This one is a personal treasure of mine, so I'm elated to see it here:

 

Everest Master Tapes

 

Here, there is genuine cause for celebration. I can't say they're all there, but a lot of great stuff!

 

Finally, not sure of Melodiya and EMI. 

 

If you have a few (say 5) titles you want me to check, just let me know. I'm still exploring - kid in candy store mode!

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1 minute ago, mourip said:

 

Wow. I now really feel lazy. Thanks so much for that. The Everest group looks really great.

 

Hey no worries. I wasn’t trying to diss you. I’m exploring anyway, so it’s nice to have suggestions for something to search!

 

I assumed you were asking because you don’t already have access. Or do you? If the latter, then yeah, lazy!   

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15 minutes ago, mourip said:

I have access now but I am stumbling a bit with learning the interface. The library is so vast that it is a bit daunting so I am working on searching and creating playlists.

 

I did a search on "Everest Records" and my jaw dropped. About 150 albums. Any idea how to add multiple albums to a playlist without adding one by one? I tried to lasso them and add as a group but that did not work...

 

This is where the UI is lacking... but true of Tidal too. I don’t know the answer to your question about group add to playlists.

 

But even if that were easy, the playlist view doesn’t show albums, only tracks.

 

What would be nice is a way to group favorite albums into collections.

 

Once Roon integration happens, one can add to library, and then maybe use tags and the “focus” option to create and collections.

[austinpop]

Sure enough, tags in Roon will solve the collections problem quite nicely. For example, I tried this with Tidal - they have a lot Everest albums in MQA. Here's what a tagged album view would look like:

 

 

So I can't wait for the Roon-Qobuz integration, when exactly the same can be done with Qobuz albums.

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2 hours ago, EuroChamp said:

RCA Living Stereo: No Analogue Production SACDs - correct.

 

They are 24/88. It should be a DSD>PCM rip from the SONY SACDs. Qobuz writes: Sony Classical Originals.

 

You make me curious. I am on a business trip now, but will compare and report when I am back home. I think I should have all of the existing digital versions ? including AP.

 

To be fair to Qobuz, I really do wonder what is reasonable to expect from a streaming service. Many older recordings, especially classic or iconic titles, have had multiple remasters and rereleases, both in Redbook and high-resolution. Then you have the Specialty labels like MFSL, AP, the Japanese SHM-CD and SHM-SACDs, ... the list goes on.

 

Ideally I'd like Qobuz to offer all variants of a recording, even if it means many versions, but I'm not sure that's realistic or even reasonable. The way I see it, if you really like a recording that much, then you'll buy the special, super-duper remaster anyway.

 

What I would love to see for sure from Qobuz is streaming of DSD content - like the aforementioned Analogue Production or Mercury Living Presence SACDs.

 

A guy can dream.

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1 hour ago, David Craff said:

 

Hi,

 

Thanks for this feedback, I will think of this to add a filter for Hi-Res result only.

 

Can you explain me the different result between Desktop and Mobile APP ?

 

Regards

 

David,

 

Are you with Qobuz? If so, I'm glad you're responding to this feedback, and considering a filter for Hi-res.

 

Thanks.

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, David Craff said:

 

Hi,

 

Yes I'm from Qobuz.

 

I will think how we can add an Hi-Res filter. This can be possible on search result.

 

Hi David,

 

Thanks very much for considering this. It will be a very useful feature. I should also point out that the app on Windows and Mac is somewhat inconsistent on allowing sorting of album results. Here is an example of when I click on the label "BIS," which hyperlinks to this view:

 

 

 

Notice there is no way to sort or filter this list. However, when I select an artist, that album list is sortable:

 

 

Let us know how you would like us to identify these kinds of little inconsistencies. I realize this may not be your area of responsibility, so just let us know how to send input like this to Qobuz.

 

Kind regards.

[austinpop]

2 hours ago, shadowlight said:

Stupid user question.  I cannot seem to figure out how to sort the search results.

 

 

Not a stupid question, but a great one!

 

There does not appear to be a way to sort search results. This is the context of the feature request I made to @David Craff earlier. It would be really helpful to have sort and filter controls whenever results are displayed. This could be either due to search, or when navigating (for example, a list of albums in a genre), or when clicking a hyperlink (for example, a label).

 

Sort:

• by artist
• by date
• by genre
• by album/track name (depends on the context of the list)

Filter - the ability to constrain results where:

• format is Hi-Res/CD/MP3
• artist/album/genre/label = "something"

I'm sure the list above is incomplete, but you get the idea.

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, David Craff said:

 

I have no preference, I try to find the best compromise for users. We may add this feature but we have to do it intelligently.

 

It should not be forgotten that Qobuz is also a platform for buying dematerialized music and that the rights to listen to an album are at the discretion of the rights holders (Label, Major, Artist...). We therefore have to juggle the expectations of our customers (with multiple profiles) and the issues related to this sector. 

 

Hi David,

 

Yes, I recognize this is a balancing act. Do you have a sense for how much of your customer base is (or will be) purchase-only? Compared to streaming-only and streaming+purchase? Since all the (Qo) buzz  in the media and audio press has been on the streaming service, I sorta assumed that was your primary customer set.

 

All that aside, this should be a non issue. Why not just enhance the display on the UI of the app? Take this example:

 

 

Where it says: "Available in Hi-Res Audio," why not add a modifier like this:

1. for Purchase only
2. for Streaming and Purchase
3. for Streaming only - I doubt this is ever true, but included for completeness.

Your thoughts?

[austinpop]

3 hours ago, David Craff said:

 

Hi,

 

It is not easy to compare customers on a subscription with customers on a purchase. This varies from one country to another but overall we are not far from a 50/50 ratio. Sometime a country have more streaming customers and another buyers customers.

 

Regarding your proposal on the display of hi-res information, this is a work in progress. We are updating our API to get this information and display it on our app.

 

Wow, I’m surprised that ratio is so high! I'm assuming purchase customers would be those who registered on the site, but never subscribed to a streaming plan? I guess only a fraction of these ever make a purchase, and many are just dormant.

 

Anyway, that’s a moot point if we can get the hi-res display to be clear.

 

Regarding the API, thanks for looking into it. I hope you can make it happen.

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, hsmeets said:

 

Noticed yesterday evening that the Channel Classics albums could be streamed beyond the 30s clips.

 

An error? i thought.

 

Today a post by Qobuz on facebook that the Channel Classics catalog is now available for streaming.

 

 

 

 

??

 

Now I can listen to Podger with my porridge!