Chords New M -Scaler

[mav52]

Interesting unit,  which has over 1 million TAPS.  

https://chordelectronics.co.uk/product/hugo-mscaler/

 

https://darko.audio/2018/07/chord-electronics-announce-hugo-m-scaler/

 

So why does it matter how many TAPS ( FIR's) you have and why is it mo better.  https://dspguru.com/dsp/faqs/fir/basics/

I mean when I listen to a Halo LV 3 in NOS or the PS Audio Direct Stream DAC they sound pretty good.  Not sure how many of these TAPS ( FIRS) they have.

[mav52]

2 hours ago, mansr said:

Rob Watts is technically correct in that a longer filter gives a more accurate reconstruction. However, I'm certain that nobody can hear the difference between 100k and 1M taps. Conferring such great importance on the filter length falls, in my opinion, in the same category as talking about skin effect at audio frequencies: real phenomena of limited or no relevance to audio applications.

 

If taps are so "important to chord, I wonder why the other DAC manufacturers don't list their TAP quantity. OR is this Marketing at it best.

[mav52]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I just contacted the US distributor for a review unit. I'm guessing they won't be available for a while. 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I just contacted the US distributor for a review unit. I'm guessing they won't be available for a while. 

 

 

I had heard from my dealer in Fl it's around the fall time frame. 

[mav52]

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

One thing I love is that we have options. Custom HQP or M Scaler or whatever. 

 

All very cool. 

Very cool.

[mav52]

3 hours ago, rickca said:

@barrows this thread is about the Chord HMS.  Please don't turn it into a thread about the superiority of streamers.

 

 

Thank you.  Lets keep this topic on track.  IF you have nothing to discuss about the Chord M-Scaler move on and start your on thread,.

[mav52]

2 hours ago, Sloop John B said:

 

Indeed it is strange that for some enthusiasts the proof of the pudding is not in the eating but rather in assessing the recipe. 

 

.sjb

 

Very true. But, for some the recipe is as exciting as the actual listening. I for one go the listening route but I do appreciate knowledge base of others in helping to explain how something works.   Like my wifes mother ( who is an award winning baker) tells her , there is more ways to bake a cake, its all in the recipe and the methods used.   I guess we can say the same about dac design and engineering as there are lots of dacs out there using different designs.

 

One thing I do like about this M-Scaler idea,  it can be used with other dacs not just Chords products

[mav52]

Just now, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

Perhaps @austinpop can touch on this. It may not work like many people think it will work when using other DACs.

 

I guess it will depend on the other dacs and their inputs and how the other dacs handle decoding.

[mav52]

5 minutes ago, mansr said:

What is the output format?

 

 

 

I see Chris the dual BNC's

[mav52]

30 minutes ago, Albrecht said:

Not really, - there may be something that works with or against the vinegar to make it taste excellent....

 

Of course, - with the Chord product, - it is decidedly NOT throwing something as incongruous as vinegar into the recipe.

 

No its the dual BNC connections

[mav52]

2 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

are people using vinegar to clean the connections on the M-scalar?

 

Not even relevant

[mav52]

2 hours ago, ecwl said:

Regardless, I have to admit this post seems to be dragging us more and more off-topic since we are now talking about DAC architecture, rather than HMS's initial upsampling filter.

 

It does seem to be moving into techy detail about other dac chips.  Lets stay within the M-Scaler and other possible solutions to achieve the same thing without moving deep into dac design.

 

ie. I asked Chord can this M-Scaler be used without the dual BNC connections. The answer was yes. " Mscaler will work into a single coax input on a DAC but this will limit the scaling to a mere 352kHz or so" 

[mav52]

12 minutes ago, barrows said:

Does the M Scaler offer what is important for sound quality

 

I guess more people will find out when this device is available in the fall of this year.

[mav52]

Lets stay on topic.   We are drifting like a bad clock

[mav52]

6 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

I wouldn't worry about it.  It's all relevant to subject.  It will be awhile before the Hugo M-Scaler arrives to the wilds.  Until then, better some relevant technical conversation than pure sound speculation.  We could start a m-scaler listening thread at that time.

We shall see.

[mav52]

2 hours ago, Miska said:

I think this is perfectly good topic for discussion, whether this is the correct thread for that is another question. I think that is one of the most interesting topics to discuss.

 

It all depends on how far the discussion moves towards your product without a deeper move into the chord product  which is difficult unless Chord joins the discussion  .  So it at this time is pretty one sided.

[mav52]

12 hours ago, ecwl said:

Did not try it. Just went for 2 million with IZotope because my time is precious. 

 

I do hear a difference between 1 million taps from Blu2 vs DAVE’s 164,000 taps.

 

So there is another software choice besides HQP with  IZotope, Audirvana Plus any more ?

[mav52]

12 minutes ago, auricgoldfinger said:

@The Computer Audiophile At what point do you declare that a thread is no longer on topic and that posts need to be split off to a separate thread?  Some very respected CA members have politely suggested it would be appropriate for this thread.  A fresh pair of eyes looking at this thread for information on the M-Scaler might be quite confused since there is little informed discussion of the M-Scaler product.  I am curious about the criteria as I am relatively new to CA.

 

AS the OP I have on a few attempts tried to keep this thread on topic and not turning into a software thread based on HQP alone.  It drifted but came back on track , kinda , but at the moment its moving yet again far off base.  

 

IF someone wants to create a thread that follows the movement of this thread which appears to be how upsampling works, please do. 

[mav52]

On 8/10/2018 at 6:20 AM, peterlim8 said:

No m scaler discussion here? We shall ditch this thread.

 

Its typical , yes the thread should be closed and the other topics taken up in their own thread. 

[mav52]

2 hours ago, Confused said:

Yes, off topic, I would agree.

Yes more off topic BS

[mav52]

27 minutes ago, barrows said:

Most manufacturers add clauses such as this to avoid the possibility of being held responsible for very, very inappropriate use cases by the owner.  As Chord cannot control what power supply might be plugged into one of their components, they feel the need to protect themselves from liability if/when a customer does something really, really stupid.  This is also why most manufacturers will void a warranty if a product is modified, as they have no control over what mods might be done, and the quality of the workmanship of those mods.

As long as the manufacturer is reasonable on how such restrictions are imposed I see nothing wrong with them, and do not blame a manufacturer for trying to exert some control over the use of the product, such that it is not damaged by the user.

 

For example, Chord cannot stop an enthusiastic but perhaps less than knowledgeable owner from plugging in a 15 volt power supply where a 5 volt supply was supplied.  I have seen this type of thing happen (even customers who thought more voltage would be "better"!), and of course over voltage could cause damage.  Most manufacturers are very lenient in how they apply such language in the real situation of a warranty repair, and will often still honor the warranty in most cases.

 

In my experience doing customer service, I have see some crazy things which customers sometimes do to products, including "mods" which actually broke the component.

 

I am not sure about the legality of such warranty restrictions, certainly these vary by country of use, most warranty statements are vetted by lawyers before being published, @mansr, are you certain this statement would be illegal?

 

Of course one can still use another power supply with the MScaler, no one will come to your house and stop you.  Just make sure the supply is the correct voltage and polarity.  Chord never has to know, and the will not know, unless you do actually overvolatage the unit and burn something as a result of that. 

I agree 100%. In this sue happy country we live in, its best to protect yourself first in print than fight it out in court.