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16 bit files almost unlistenable now...


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9 hours ago, jabbr said:

If you mean by "aggressive" as "processor intensive" then yes, indeed processor intensive. 

 

Noise shaping is defined by filter in feedback of a sigma-delta modulator. See "DAC" in feedback at the picture "Sigma delta modulator inside" here https://samplerateconverter.com/educational/how-work-sigma-delta-modulation-audio

 

Remark: there are number of different modulator schemes, but in the post described general principle.

 

More shaping steepness (filter frequency-magnitude steepness) > more sensitive feedback > more unstable system with feedback (modulator).

 

Steepness of the shaping depend on the order and design method of the filter.


1 order = 1 [multiply+sum] operation.

 

As rule, sigma-delta modulators have orders lesser 10. And changing of the shaping steepness don't make big performance difference.

 

Resampling filters and big sample rates (big number of calculations) consume most of performance.

 

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2 hours ago, buonassi said:

As is the case with some others who've already posted:  The better I dial in my system, the harder it is to tell 16 bit from 24 bit.  It's to the point where I just don't care about high res anymore.  

 

 Have you , or others compared stuff like " Blondie-Parallel Lines " in both 16/44.1 and the 24/192 versions ?

There is also markedly better channel separation with the 24/192 version.

It's simply no contest with my PC audio. I was comparing the .flac 24/192 after conversion to .wav earlier today.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

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9 minutes ago, Andyman said:

 Even the man in the background with the 70’s porn star moustache (part of the “band”?) is looking on in pain...

 

It must be OK because it says "HD".

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35 minutes ago, Andyman said:

 

I haven’t yet worked up the courage to press the play button. Even the man in the background with the 70’s porn star moustache (part of the “band”?) is looking on in pain...

 

Excuse quoting myself. Watched it now - it’actually very funny.

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46 minutes ago, Fokus said:

 

So is entirely an early digital recording, hence innately 44k1.

Peter Gabriel, "So": 

 

Quote

The studio's basic equipment consisted of "two analog 24-track machines, a Studer A80, and a Studer A80 shell that had been modified by a local electronics wizard, with its own audio cards and transport controls".[nb 2] To record vocals a Neumann U47 tube microphone and a Decca compressor were used without equalization.[12] All of So's songs were made in a similar format. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/So_(album)

 

So, a remaster to 24/192 might sound better than the original CD if it was made from the tapes. 

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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Sorry, my info back then stated that So was fully digital. The LP has a tell tale ridge at 20kHz. The SACD has the same ridge. Both were clearly 44.1k at one stage during production.

 

Edit: the story is in the Classic Tracks series on SOS. They ran into sync problems with the A80s, and had to bounce all tracks over a Mitsubishi 32track. Digital thus ...

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9 minutes ago, Fokus said:

Sorry, my info back then stated that So was fully digital. The LP has a tell tale ridge at 20kHz. The SACD has the same ridge. Both were clearly 44.1k at one stage during production.

 

Edit: the story is in the Classic Tracks series on SOS. They ran into sync problems with the A80s, and had to bounce all tracks over a Mitsubishi 32track. Digital thus ...

Well both things could be true - 24 track tape and a 16\44.1 master produced from the tapes.  And certainly wouldn't be the first time SACDs were produced from upsampled Redbook. 

 

The album was remastered in 2002. And apparently again for hi-res and vinyl in 2012. http://blog.bowers-wilkins.com/music/remastering-peter-gabriels-so/

 

The question is what is the source of the 24/192 version referred to in the above post. I couldn't find a reference to such a version anywhere. 

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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The story is they initially tracked on the A-80s, ran into problems, copied all tracks to the digital Mitsubishi, and proceeded with that one. There is no pure-analogue So.

 

Not that it matters. Whatever the release, I have always found that the louder songs sound crappy.

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22 hours ago, Blake said:

 

 

Rando, your expertise with respect to the electronic music and hip hop genres is most informative.....  keep going please, tell me more.  

 

God wiling, with your informed advice, I can graduate from the electronic music and hip hop that I listen to now, to whatever music it is that you enjoy.

 

Whatever music it is, I am quite certain I am not yet ready or worthy to receive it, but with your guidance Sensei Rando, all things are possible!  

 

Boy did that tetchy reaction post wound me.  Hormonal mood swings towards sarcasm and social exclusion?  ?‍♀️

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On 7/14/2018 at 7:14 AM, AudioDoctor said:

Speaking of Hip Hop and Electronica...

 

This is where the sub in my main system really makes itself heard.

 

Screen Shot 2018-07-14 at 1.13.58 AM.png

 

Played this a couple of times over the weekend. Wasn’t listening out for bass (or anything else hifi). But what a great album. Think someone said later in thread Barry White with Portishead. Yep - kudos!

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18 hours ago, Sonicularity said:

 

Thank you for the advice.

See my post just above. 

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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10 hours ago, Fokus said:

Not that it matters. Whatever the release, I have always found that the louder songs sound crappy.

 

This type of statement is always a giveaway that the replay chain is not up to scratch - "louder songs" are merely those which use more of the potential of digital to encode anything, with "perfect" resolution of the content - if the rig can't handle it, then don't blame the recording methods.

 

I used to play Peter Gabriel's "So" - no problems with any of the tracks, a relatively 'mild' album - a far more testing recording is album IV, Security; this has sections of very intense sound, which would trouble many setups.

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1 hour ago, esldude said:

See my post just above. 

 

I am not weak in my mathematical knowledge and deductive reasoning.  I don't recall establishing my financial means; though, I suppose it was simply assumed from my comments.   Neither of us will probably ever change GUTB's perspective on audio gear and its relationship with cost.  I recognized the futility of continuing on in that direction.  

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I don't have a problem with mp3 at all - at one stage I got very interested in trialing this format, and played quite a bit with the settings of LAME, to see what happened with the SQ. Yes, one can hear the alteration, but it's not a disaster - perfectly acceptable, in the same way as a slightly different mastering is acceptable. Creating a diff file showed how little was lost, compared to the large variations that can occur for other reasons.

 

If I was forced to listen to only good quality mp3 from now on, it wouldn't be hell on earth ... :P

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