Shielded vs. unshielded Ethernet and Grounding

[Superdad]

6 hours ago, mansr said:

Those isolators intended for hospitals and such are meant to protect equipment against much higher voltages than a typical Ethernet jack can withstand. Low-level noise isn't a consideration, and they may or may not block it any better than the regular transformers.

 

And they don’t do anything to block AC leakage currents—which John has measured traveling over Ethernet lines.  That’s an important factor to address for audio—especially when one purpose of using small end-point Ethernet renderers is to provide a truly isolated music source.

There are a few models of Ethernet switches which, if grounded, will shunt incoming (from all ports) high-impedance leakage.  Such is never seen as a specification and it takes a special test setup to check if a switch does or does not block leakage.

[Superdad]

5 hours ago, jabbr said:

Medical/hospital Ethernet isolators absolutely are exactly designed to block leakage currents. In fact that's their entire purpose.

 

Sorry, I misspoke. Of course the medical EN isolators block low-impedance (touch current) leakage.

John tested a popular one that someone sent him and found that it did not block high-impedance leakage.  Can't seem to find his post right now, but he did use his leakage test setup on it--during the time he was comparing switches--and reported that the medical isolators were only effective with the low-impedance leakage.  Not that it is difficult to design a switch that shunts the high-impedance leakage.

[Superdad]

@jabbr:

Thanks for your technical observations! John is super-busy this week, but I sent him a link to the above and encouraged him to engage with you and to clarify how he has measured and what he has seen.  

[And of course leakage is but one of the issues we will be addressing effectively in our EtherREGEN switch.]

 

[Superdad]

16 minutes ago, octaviars said:

Look here @jabbr I think this is the one @Superdad was looking for were John measured the Baaske isolator.

 

Oh wow, thank you! That’s the exact post I was searching for.  You just saved John a whiole bunch of time, so double-thanks.  

That post shows both what he measured and how.

[Superdad]

8 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

curious about the forthcoming etherREGEN...

 

is it intended as a high priced ($3,000 level) sort of item?  or much lower?

 

is it going to be specialized for ethernet only?

 

4 Gigabit copper Ethernet ports, 1 Gigabit SFP cage, 1 10/100Mbps ultra-clean and isolated port (expensive GMR isolators), low-phase-noise master clock driving clock synthesizer for various clocks, LT3042/45 LDO regs, specially chosen magnetics for best leakage isolation, and a few other details.  

Price to be much lower than competitive units that are simply modified off-the-shelf switches—versus our from-the-ground-up approach.  Targeting $500 but it depends upon final BoM cost.

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/38968-etherregen-early-general-details-please-dont-ask-too-many-questions-yet/

 

 

8 hours ago, mansr said:

My understanding is that it's simply an Ethernet switch, just as the regular Regen is a USB hub. The recipe looks the same. Take a regular switch/hub, remove most of the ports, install some over-specced clocks, and watch the money roll in.

 

Your understanding is wrong.  Except for the very last part, where the money rolls in—due to happy customers enjoying audible benefits and a solid value. Same as with our other products—all sold with a 30-day, money-back guarantee. 

[Superdad]

22 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

Thx - those are the NVE Spintronics devices?

 

Yes.  John has been using them for years.  They are far better than any other digital isolator.  Among their many positive attributes is that they introduce less jitter than RF, optical, or capacitive isolators.

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, mansr said:

That combination of words doesn't mean anything. Currents don't have impedances.

 

As far as I can recall, John never used “current” in his reference to high-impedance leakage. Others have somehow chosen to make that part of the phrase. 

Of course it is measurable and we have published some examples.