Popular Post firedog Posted July 4, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 4, 2018 2 hours ago, MetalNuts said: Back in the 80's, my vinyl system was so sucked and with the debut of CDs and CDP, with the same price, I had a better SQ. Since then, I never looked back at the LP expecting it to improve whereas the digital gears and music are improving day by day. 46 minutes ago, 4est said: If your vinyl rig was worse than digital in the 80s, it must have been pretty bad. In the early 80's, if you had a typical entry level vinyl rig for people who cared about audio (say Shure or Ortofon cartridge and Dual Turntable), you may have been very favorably impressed by the sound of CD: no surface noise, lots of dynamics (louder than vinyl!), no clicks and pops. But Vinyl actually has gotten better. Now that it is more of a specialty item and considered expensive, the average new disc is much better made and uses better raw material than back in the 70's and 80's. Cutting, mastering, etc are all more precise. Cartridges, turntables, and phono pre's have also improved (yes, I am talking in generalities and am not including "junk" equipment in my assessments, but stuff that is supposed to be good sounding). But, don't get me wrong. I have a turntable I never use and I prefer good digital to analog. It is orders of magnitude better than it once was, even compared to the beginning of this century. d_elm, lucretius, Teresa and 1 other 2 2 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted July 4, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 4, 2018 3 hours ago, GUTB said: There is a massive proliferation of misinformation regarding vinyl in relation to digital. I realize much of that is just willful ignorance on the part of non-audiophiles / class warfare activists, etc.... however all senior audiophiles seem to know that LPs crush CD and streaming, but if you to get a technical or even theoretical basis for that phenomena by researching it all you find is misinformation about why digital is better. Lie: vinyl suffers from heavy dynamic compression — so why do my LPs display vastly better dynamic power/force? Lie: vinyl has less resolution — macro resolution is greater in my digital that’s true, but why is inner detail and tonal color so much better on vinyl? Lie: vinyl suffers from a lot of distortion — perhaps, but why do my LPs sound more live and lifelike than my digital? So what’s going on here? Could the issue be that these aren’t lies so much as not accounting for awful ADCs and digital mastering techniques? I'd bet you lots of money micro/inner detail is better on my digital system than virtually any vinyl system. In fact, compared to some pretty expensive vinyl playback I've heard, it isn't even close. Vinyl does suffer from compression. In mastering they even compress the tracks so extreme frequencies and dynamics won't overwhelm the vinyl playback. Vinyl does suffer from a lot of distortion - by definition. Do you actually think going from a metal disc to pressing a vinyl disc to playback with a stylus running through a groove in the plastic doesn't add distortion? Your LPs sound more "live and lifelike" - to you, and not necessarily to others: Because you find the added distortion the recording and playback system gives you euphonic. That's fine. Just don't say it isn't adding distortion. Get a top notch ADC and record your vinyl in hires on a very good vinyl rig/system that includes quality amp and speakers . Do unsighted playback on that same rig with an equally capable digital source. The digital recording will playback with all those "special", supposedly unique to vinyl qualities you say you prefer, and it's unlikely you will be able to consistently pick out the vinyl playback vs. the digital. If you can, it will be with extreme difficulty. This has been shown to be true multiple times with experienced listeners in testing. So what you like about vinyl playback is what it adds to the recording, not the accuracy of the recording and playback medium itself, or anything lacking in the accuracy and "lifelike" qualities of digital. Currawong, Audiophile Neuroscience, exdmd and 5 others 6 2 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
firedog Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, 4est said: And the entry level CD players that I checked out sounded worse still IMO. To this day, I will often take a poor mediocre vinyl rig over a mediocre CD player. The caveat is that that vinyl rig would be typically a lot more expensive than it's digital counter part. I'm not arguing with what you hear(d). I'm just saying that for a lot of people, CD was an upgrade in SQ from vinyl. It's very fashionable these days to say "I never thought CD sounded good". Well, some of the people who say that are full of it. They liked the sound and started buying CDs instead of vinyl. Some of them over time started to change their idea of what sounded better, yes. Others didn't. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
firedog Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Just now, PeterSt said: You're referring to comparing the vinyl playback with the playback of the digital recording of it, right ? (and that it is now indistinguishable) Yes, exactly. As John Atkinson said when he compared rips made using the Ayre QA-9 ADC to the LPs he used for the rips: Quote but there was no doubt that with a 192kHz sample rate I could not distinguish between the LP and the digital rip. And believe me, I tried. I A/B'd the two versions until blood came out of my ears and I was heartily sick of this music I hadn't heard for, in some cases, decades. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted July 4, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 4, 2018 25 minutes ago, 4est said: I feel this approach is completely spot on. It's based on subjectivity over technical merit of course, but pleasure is subjective in the end. I retain my interest in vinyl for just such reasons. I have little interest in modern vinyl unless it is a purely analog venture. That's despite the possibility that some digitally recorded vinyl is very good. I want to maintain the vinyl experience as I pursue newer music on digital. I wouldn't start into vinyl these days unless I simply had play money to add to my fun. Vinyl is more difficult and expensive than digital. I also find it entirely more rewarding at times. I suppose I play around making DACs and such as it is akin to tweaking a turntable... With modern DSP, I can get those same vinyl effects in digital if I feel like listening that way. Or I can just run everything through some tube equipment and it has much the same result. I sometimes do it with analog era recordings (even digital versions) as that sometimes sounds "authentic" to me -not better, just more like what I think the recordings "should" sound like. Nordkapp and Audiophile Neuroscience 2 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
firedog Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, PeterSt said: I can well say that everybody who listens happily to those same rips or the very LP's *and* is claiming the better sound and no loss in dynamics and what not, is not really on par. Okay, now I'm not sure I understand you. Are you saying your rips on the Pacific Microsonics ADC are equal to the LP (indistinguishable), but rips made by others on other equipment aren't, because they lack the dynamics of the LP? Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
firedog Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, 4est said: Seriously? This would have to be one of the more outlandish things you have said IMO then. I prefer to listen to analog recorded and mastered for analog and digital recorded and mastered for digital. If I get you, you are suggesting that your DSP can not only make up for the A>D conversion(which typically includes a remastering process of sorts as I understand it), but replicate specific tube gear AND do room correction. Gosh, forgive me, but I call bullshit on that one. Even if the hardware could somehow do this, you are suggesting that there is some sort of universal EQ that you could apply or that you have the time and talent to reverse engineer the works of people such as Barry D who have made the CDs from the tapes. No, wasn’t saying that. Why such an extreme interpretation? Was simply saying with DSP you can add analog or vinyl type effects to digital playback that makes digital sound more analog like to most people. Just adding a little upper bass or midrange boost or rolloff of the high end is very appealing to many listeners and mimics what some people like about analog. And yes, there are plugins designed to mimic specific tubes or specific analog devices. Do they sound just like the real thing? Of course not. But they do sound similar. Audiophile Neuroscience 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
firedog Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, 4est said: I do not think my interpretation is extreme at all. I agreed with about listening to how the recording was originally recorded and not a conversion. You stated that you could have all of that with some DSP. No, you just understood something I didn’t say. People like certain aspects of analog playback. You can mimic many of those characteristics in digital, so that for many people the digital then sounds the way they like things to sound, and that they assume they need vinyl for. I do it often for digital playback with specific recordings that I think need it (usually 80’s digital). In some cases it only takes a little boost here or reduction there to add the “warmth” and reduce “harshness” to make digital sound analog like for them. In other cases, you can run digital playback through a tube component and it will make them happy. Or you can do other types of digital manipulations that will please them. I didn’t say the end result would sound exactly like some great analog system. I was trying to say you can get what for many people is what they think they prefer about the sound of vinyl - without the vinyl. You apparently have never done it, but are willing to tell me how outlandish my suggestion is anyway. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
firedog Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 30 minutes ago, 4est said: I felt it is outlandish to suggest that the only difference between analog and digital of the same recording was a little EQ and tube mimicry. I never suggested that, It’s an understanding of what I wrote that exists only in your mind. Please show me where I wrote that “the only differece..”. In fact I never wrote anything here where I was talking about comparing the analog and digital versions of the same recording. You simply projected some concepts of yours onto something i wrote that was entirely different. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted July 4, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 4, 2018 32 minutes ago, 4est said: I am sorry if I misunderstood you, but I felt that was an implied assumption from your quotation of me when I stating I wanted availability to the original format. We started talking about lies about vinyl - and as it compares to digital. I’ve tried to make 2 points: a) you can make a digital transcription of an analog medium (LP) that is indistinguishable from that LP when both are played back on the same system. That shows that what people like about analog playback is not something inherently “analog”, but something in the production and reproduction chain of analog playback. If it was inherent only to analog recordings then a digital transcription couldn’t mimic it so perfectly; b) that some or much of what people think they prefer about analog and that is inherent to analog can be successfully added to a digital file thru use of DSP so that many people would say they are satisfied with the sound as “analog like” and that they are happy with the result - as if they were listening to analog. None of that means analog and digital recordings sound the same. Or that such use of DSP makes a digital recording sound exactly like an analog recording. (Although that could probably be done also if someone was willing to put enough time, money, and skill into attempting it). semente, Confused and Ajax 2 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
firedog Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 9 hours ago, GUTB said: Time for some real talk. My digital source is better than most members' of CA. Just being real. Most of you guys are running el-cheapo streamers, junk-berry servers with consumer NAS units, laptops, mac minis, etc. I have a custom PC running an I7-7700K with a large passive cooler, no fans anywhere. Paul Pang V3 USB card powered by dedicated battery. SSD on a separate dedicated battery to completely isolate the entire system from SSD noise. Linear ATX PSU. Windows 10 running Fidelizer Pro, Roon and HQPlayer for DSD512 up-sampling (the reason for the powerful CPU). Single RAM stick to minimize noise. It's not perfect because of switching-mode voltage regulators, but very decent. All audio components are on a dedicated circuit and plugged into a Panamax 5400 filter with the exception of the PC and amp (I felt the Panamax is current-starving my power amps). There isn't a single SMPS on the circuit. All components are using audiophile-grade AC cables, except the PC which I feel doesn't make a difference. There are probably less than 20 people on CA with better digital source systems than what I have. I have two DACs in the system currently: a MHZS CD88J CDP which has a tubed power supply and output stage, and the Holo Cyan DSD which is a native DSD-only resistor ladder design. This gives me the ability to listen to two very different digital architectures and compare it with my analog. One of my favorite LPs is Belafonte at Carnegie Hall (200g Analogue Productions) The same album on Tidal: https://tidal.com/browse/album/45182945 Long story short, the LP crushes the streaming version. The main issue? The digital version seems severely hampered in terms of dynamic force / power, but there are other factors which aren't as easy to pin down, but nevertheless do something in the LP which adds to sense of realism which is missing from the digital version. Get a good digital file of the record and see if the playback is better than what you get from Tidal. AFAIR, that album is available in hi-res. Willing to bet you the digital download will sound better than your Tidal steam. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
firedog Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 9 hours ago, The_K-Man said: Not "lies" so much as simple misunderstanding. Ever hear of something called the 'loudness war'? Well, there's been a loudness race going almost back to wax cylinders, but when digital audio and the CD debuted closing in on 40 years ago, the loudness war in recorded music went NUCLEAR. Digital was metered in peaks, not average, or RMS. About 10 years into the life of the CD, music producers and engineers discovered they could peak normalize albums. Peak normalization led to peak limiting, which when combined with increasing doses of dynamics compression and make-up gain, could produce an album 10-15dB louder average listening level, than one released at any point in the 1980s. The penalty: Decline and loss of realistic transients and openness that gave the recording depth. To summarize, it is the MASTERING, in the digital domain, not any digital format itself(Redbook CD, 24bit high res, lossy MP3, etc) that slowly lent the impression that digital audio was 'lifeless' or 'dull' next to a vinyl equivalent of the same album release. All of the latest, most expensive external DACs, internconnects, room treatments, and boutique speaker wiring will make maybe a percent or two difference in what you hear, compared to simply locating a better source. Some early CDs suffered from first generation ADCs that suffered from clock jitter or excessive quantization errors. That might explain some of the coldness some of the 'vinyl is better' crowd is experiencing with those CDs compared to more relatively recent CD releases. This is what the general public is slowly being made aware of, one thread at a time, in forums such as this one. No, the loudness war is only one factor. There are also plenty of CDs without heavy loudness compression that don't sound great. Clearly mastering is crucial. Lots of factors go into making a good sounding CD. PeterSt 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
firedog Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 8 hours ago, The_K-Man said: The Loudness War is DEAD - Long live the Content War! ? Listen to almost any recent pop/rock/hip-hop/ country CD or remaster intended for the mass market and I think you will find the loudness war is alive and well. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
firedog Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 3 hours ago, Blackmorec said: 1. Everything makes a difference 2. A direct wire connection is not necessarily the best 3. One poorly selected power supply can rob the whole system of its magic 4. Once working really well, there’s a ton more information in a red book format file than most people (myself included) are aware of. 5. With resolution maximised and losses minimised a highly transparent and neutral system will reveal that what we’re hearing is 100% down to the skills of the recording production team. 6. In a highly transparent and neutral system, 95% of the recordings (I listen to) sound good. In the 5% that don’t, one can clearly hear the production errors. 7. Compared to the digital system, the analog system sounded ‘old’. It was fiddly, required far more operator interaction, was subject to a lot of contamination noise, lacked the inky black silences, lacked the instant dynamic swings, lacked transparent low level detail (too much noise), lacked very low level timbre, lacked SOTA image focus and multi-layered acoustic resolution compared to the digital stream and generally sounded somewhat less accomplished. In isolation the analog system sounded great, but the digital front end simply took it to another level. In summary, I could find no justification on sonic grounds for playing music on vinyl, when a SOTA digital system is available. This conclusion was reached after playing hundreds of different tracks on both digital and on vinyl. I don’t have the shadow of a doubt that I could find the odd LP that would outperform the digital file equivalent but that would always be down to the condition of the LP and the production of LP and Digital versions. Over hundreds of tracks, my digital set-up clearly outperformed my analog front end...it delivers greater transparency, improved rhythmic drive and musical impetus and certainly greater listener involvement due to lower noise, greater dynamic contrasts, more low level timbral information and overall greater ‘believability’. You pretty much summed up why I prefer digital. In my present setup, even well done CD sounds really good. Before this, I clearly preferred hi-res/DSD. Now, not as much. Sometimes not at all. I do understand why people who like vinyl and tape like them - they do have a certain "ease" to the sound that is seductive, in a way. But when I compare well done digital - I almost always prefer the digital. And yes, I understand others come to exactly the opposite conclusion. That's why it's a fun hobby. Invite me over to hear your vinyl setup that you love and I'm sure I'll enjoy it. Ajax 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
firedog Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 2 hours ago, The_K-Man said: Yes, loud, overcompressed albums and remasters of legacy are still being released, but on the metering and streaming side something is being done about it. Yes, but several years ago when Apple started doing that for their streaming, we were told that their volume leveling was going to change the game and the volume wars would end, i.e., the heavy volume compression would stop as there would no longer be an "advantage" to it. Hasn't happened. The production still includes the heavy VC. If we want improved sound, the answer isn't some kind of volume leveling, but a dialing back of the volume wars for the masters being used as the basis of releases. 4est 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
firedog Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 22 minutes ago, Rexp said: I believe he uses an Innuos into a Devialet, I heard both separatley and not been particularly impressed, maybe the combo is magic. But other people - including some on this forum- love the Innuos and can't say enough about it. I've extensively auditioned one Devialet model (I think it was a single 400) and thought it sounded quite good. Tastes differ. As do setups and what else is involved in the audition, such as speakers... Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
firedog Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, The_K-Man said: "VC"? Otherwise known as volume compression. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
firedog Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 3 hours ago, GUTB said: @gmgraves revealed the truth behind the LIE of vinyl noise that even I bought into without thought -- the noise floor of vinyl isn't a floor in the digital sense, it just the level of spurious noise. If a digital recording peaks out, it sounds awful. We've all heard it. I have yet to hear my LPs peak out...a crashing crescendo, screaming vocalist, etc., is very loud but no evidence of bumping into a ceiling is present -- obviously you need an amp with enough muscle to follow your speakers through these peaks, but we're talking about the source here. Some of my CDs obviously peak-limited, some are obviously compressed / processed to be loud. Soft sound following by loud sounds is an indispensable component of enjoyable hi-fi -- that's preaching top the choir I suspect, but why are my LPs good at this while my digital sucks at it? Okay guys, help me out. What CDs or digital albums feature powerful dynamics / transients? Actually, @gmgraves didnt' reveal the lie of vinyl noise, if you follow the conversation instead of cherry picking the bits you think back you up. Try just about any modern hi-res recording of Mahler or Shostakovich symphonies. I just bought the new release of Shostakovich Symphonies Nos. 4 & 11, Boston Symphony, Nelsons. It has about as much dynamic range as anything you will find. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
firedog Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 2 hours ago, mansr said: Maybe it doesn't count as internet, but how much energy do those robots crawling around on Mars spend on communication? Probably a higher percentage of total energy use than we do here on Earth. If the orbiters are included, it could well be the biggest consumer of energy. I think they are powered by solar panels. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
firedog Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 5 hours ago, The_K-Man said: You want apples to apples? Take the exact same master, particularly the one destined for Vinyl LP, with just enough compression and bottom end roll off and all the other compromises, press it to both vinyl and to CD, with NO additional processing to the CD version(brickwall limit, etc). When I've heard such flat transfers to digital they don't sound good - lifeless, little bass or treble. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
firedog Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 6 minutes ago, The_K-Man said: Sighhh.. No sense in even TRYING to convince some folks(!) Digital's frequency response is truly flat - analog, and human hearing for that matter, are anything but. And I think you totally misunderstood what I wrote. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
firedog Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 15 minutes ago, The_K-Man said: Sighhh.. No sense in even TRYING to convince some folks(!) Digital's frequency response is truly flat - analog, and human hearing for that matter, are anything but. That one. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
firedog Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 At my normal moderately loud listening volume, I can hear to 78db below. At full volume, on a different but similar test, I still can hear a signal at 114 below with my ear by the speaker. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
firedog Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 1 minute ago, semente said: That's impressive: either your room is very large and quiet (<30dB) and/or your normal listening level is very loud. How far are you sitting from the speakers? I misspoke a bit. At normal volumes - at75-80db at my chair I can hear the -60 and -66 mark. At louder volumes, as the test recommends, I can hear the -78 mark. At the loudest I ever listen, I can just make out the 90db down signal. The room is small overall. I'm sitting 2.85m from the speakers - approx 9.5 ft. As noted, at full volume, ear by the speaker, I can hear 114 down. The setup is very quiet. At full volume, with a track called "digital silence" playing, with my ear by the speaker, there is no noise. Really none. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
firedog Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, mansr said: Or a 0 dBFS signal would blow his speaker cones into orbit. Fortunately, the system is designed not to playback something that will blow it out. The DSP is supposed to kick in and prevent it. I'm not going to test it for you just to find out... Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now