The price of vinyl satisfaction?

[mav52]

1 hour ago, mav52 said:

But I've had to re-boot my PC, my NAS, etc... and the updates are a crap shoot to where they screw something up or not. A pain in the ass,

 Something else, I have NOT had to touch my TT adjustments in a long long time. All my LP's are 180grams. Heck the wife even can run it and play all of her Elvis and Beatles LP's, . OF course she can also run the streamer but don't hand her the remote for the HT system, LOL

[NOMBEDES]

19 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

I've never had to reboot iTunes.  It sometimes does split my albums into 2 pieces tho.  Well worth it over vinyl but too bad some vinyl albums are hard to find on CD.

 

It is not the iTunes.   It is the Os not "finding" my DAC.   Or, in the distant past, a missing driver which killed my W4S DAC 1 for a few months.......don't get me wrong, when it works, it is great.

 

 

[Le Concombre Masqué]

16 hours ago, Sunflower_sutra said:

My turntable set up cost half the price of my dac but the turntable easily beats it. 

 

You'll get more performance for money out of a turntable set up then a digital one.

 

The only reason I listen to digital is because I'm lazy and it's more cost effective to stream music. 

my DAC costs no more than the cable from the TT's arm to the phono pre or the cable from the phono pre to the pre and I only use my TT once in a while for SQ from digital is much better. My digital signals being eQed, phase corrected, impulse gorgeous, it's not a fair comparison. For the comparison to be fair I should feed HQPlayer Embedded via a ADC converting the phono source so it can benefit from the same convolution filters.... If someone can recommend a cheaper solution ie via an analog equaliser, I'm interested

[mansr]

5 hours ago, Le Concombre Masqué said:

my DAC costs no more than the cable from the TT's arm to the phono pre or the cable from the phono pre to the pre and I only use my TT once in a while for SQ from digital is much better. My digital signals being eQed, phase corrected, impulse gorgeous, it's not a fair comparison. For the comparison to be fair I should feed HQPlayer Embedded via a ADC converting the phono source so it can benefit from the same convolution filters.... If someone can recommend a cheaper solution ie via an analog equaliser, I'm interested

A decent ADC is likely to be cheaper than an analogue equaliser to match your digital capabilities.

[Sunflower_sutra]

12 hours ago, Le Concombre Masqué said:

my DAC costs no more than the cable from the TT's arm to the phono pre or the cable from the phono pre to the pre and I only use my TT once in a while for SQ from digital is much better. My digital signals being eQed, phase corrected, impulse gorgeous, it's not a fair comparison. For the comparison to be fair I should feed HQPlayer Embedded via a ADC converting the phono source so it can benefit from the same convolution filters.... If someone can recommend a cheaper solution ie via an analog equaliser, I'm interested

Fair point but how many audio fans have the skills to do that? 

 

If I had the skills I could probably build a Wilson puppy out of a shoebox, coat hanger and some elastic bands.

 

Easier to get a turntable set up and sounding good but it is more of pain in the arse to maintain.

[Ralf11]

the problems with CDs are mostly the lousy mastering -  a friend and I once tested a very high end vinyl rig vs. 2 CDs of the same album on a decent CD Player

 

the vinyl killed the crummy CD

 

and was killed by the good CD

 

 

[GUTB]

My current CDP is a MHZS CD88J which is a mid-fi Chinese job. I have a pair of good 5751s (military 12AX7) on the output stage, and it features of a tubed power supply (rectifier and voltage regulator); it does a good job of warming up CDs and adding some image depth to them but is utterly crushed by my Triange Art turntable setup. 

 

 

[Ralf11]

https://www.malaymail.com/s/1648539/testosterone-pushes-men-to-luxury-brands-study-reveals

[GUTB]

3 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

https://www.malaymail.com/s/1648539/testosterone-pushes-men-to-luxury-brands-study-reveals

 

Does testosterone defenciency push men to Fikus plants?

[StephenJK]

On 7/1/2018 at 9:02 PM, esimms86 said:

Yes, I know what forum this is and, no, this thread is not one of those vinyl vs. digital pissing contests. I was just reading elsewhere about the Grado Aeon cartridge that sells for $6000. This got to wondering if someone already satisfied with the amp/preamp/speakers in their rig were to take an audiophile dive into vinyl, how much would they need to spend to again reach an undisputed level of audio nirvana. I'm guessing that 20 to 30 thousand dollars spent on a vinyl rig(turntable, arm, cartridge, cleaning supplies, LP sleeves, etc., all in sans furniture and vibration control and, of course, LPs) would probably get you there. Yes, you could spend a lot more but you wouldn't have to. I should also add that, when I was imagining such a rig, I did so with the understanding that an expenditure of 20 to 30 thousand dollars is not what many in this hobby would consider extravagant.

 

Remember that with high end audio, and certainly with analog that a 10% improvement takes a 300 to 400% increase in cost.  Rough numbers, sure, but you get my point.

 

A VPI Classic 30th Anniversary can be yours for $2,500 and that's a mighty fine turntable.  Pair that with something like a Dynavector DV-20X2 for another $1,000 and you've got a great system.  

 

Small improvements come with a great cost.  And, if you want to be able to resolve those subtle differences then the rest of your system has to be up to snuff as well.  

 

I would suggest you start with something credible, you should be able to do this for well under $4,000.  Then, let your ears be your guide.  You may find that investment is all you need to make. 

 

Full disclosure - my turntable, tonearm and cartridge come in at a replacement cost of of over $20K.  That's not what I paid, I tend to buy used equipment (not cartridges) from a dealer that I trust.  

 

That, of course is with quite a number of turntable upgrades over the years.  With what I have now I think I'm set.  Clearaudio Innovation Compact, Clearaudio Universal Tonearm and Dynavector Te Kaitora Rua cartridge.  I have all of the gizmos and accessories such as Feikert protractor and the Adjust+ software to nail the alignment precisely.

[esimms86]

1 hour ago, SJK said:

 

Remember that with high end audio, and certainly with analog that a 10% improvement takes a 300 to 400% increase in cost.  Rough numbers, sure, but you get my point.

 

A VPI Classic 30th Anniversary can be yours for $2,500 and that's a mighty fine turntable.  Pair that with something like a Dynavector DV-20X2 for another $1,000 and you've got a great system.  

 

Small improvements come with a great cost.  And, if you want to be able to resolve those subtle differences then the rest of your system has to be up to snuff as well.  

 

I would suggest you start with something credible, you should be able to do this for well under $4,000.  Then, let your ears be your guide.  You may find that investment is all you need to make. 

 

Full disclosure - my turntable, tonearm and cartridge come in at a replacement cost of of over $20K.  That's not what I paid, I tend to buy used equipment (not cartridges) from a dealer that I trust.  

 

That, of course is with quite a number of turntable upgrades over the years.  With what I have now I think I'm set.  Clearaudio Innovation Compact, Clearaudio Universal Tonearm and Dynavector Te Kaitora Rua cartridge.  I have all of the gizmos and accessories such as Feikert protractor and the Adjust+ software to nail the alignment precisely.

I find your full disclosure to be intriguing. You must have an incredible system to warrant a vinyl rig priced at $20,000 if bought new.

[StephenJK]

20 hours ago, esimms86 said:

I find your full disclosure to be intriguing. You must have an incredible system to warrant a vinyl rig priced at $20,000 if bought new.

 

I can give you all the details.  If possible, I buy everything used.  Only the Nu-Vista Vinyl on the list below was bought new.  Current system is:  

 

Kharma Speakers Model CRM-3.2-FE with Black Label Drivers
Clearaudio Compact Innovation Turntable
Clearaudio Universal Tonearm
Dynavector DV-XX2MKII, Dynavector Te Kaitora Rua Phono Cartridges
Bryston BDP-2 Digital Player
Bryston BDA-2 DAC
Korg MR-2000S Digital Recorder
Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista 800 Integrated Amplifier
Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista Vinyl Phono Preamp
Yamaha TX-350 Tuner
APC Power Conditioner H15BLK
Grado Reference Headphones RS1i

 

I would have never paid full price for the turntable.  I seem to recall trading in a Rega P9 against a Clearaudio Ovation that had the Universal tonearm.  They were asking $4,600 CAD for the turntable/arm combination.  Some fellow traded in on bigger and better, had the tonearm for less than a year.  Goodness, the tonearm alone was worth over $8K in Canada.  Then, I traded in the Ovation for the Innovation Compact and had to kick in something like another $2K.  I kept the arm and added the VTA lifter to the package and there it was.

 

I made a lot of changes this year in anticipation of downsizing homes.  That included selling the Klipschorns that I had fully rebuilt and picking up the Kharma's. Other changes were selling the Audio Research LS-27 and VS-115 for the Musical Fidelity 800, and the Audio Research PH-5 for the Musical Fidelity Vinyl.  Oh, and sold close to 1,500 rock LP's that have all been recorded with the Korg.  

 

Music is an important thing in our house, something we enjoy every day.  The TV is in the basement for watching movies only.

[GUTB]

36 minutes ago, SJK said:

 

I can give you all the details.  If possible, I buy everything used.  Only the Nu-Vista Vinyl on the list below was bought new.  Current system is:  

 

Kharma Speakers Model CRM-3.2-FE with Black Label Drivers
Clearaudio Compact Innovation Turntable
Clearaudio Universal Tonearm
Dynavector DV-XX2MKII, Dynavector Te Kaitora Rua Phono Cartridges
Bryston BDP-2 Digital Player
Bryston BDA-2 DAC
Korg MR-2000S Digital Recorder
Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista 800 Integrated Amplifier
Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista Vinyl Phono Preamp
Yamaha TX-350 Tuner
APC Power Conditioner H15BLK
Grado Reference Headphones RS1i

 

I would have never paid full price for the turntable.  I seem to recall trading in a Rega P9 against a Clearaudio Ovation that had the Universal tonearm.  They were asking $4,600 CAD for the turntable/arm combination.  Some fellow traded in on bigger and better, had the tonearm for less than a year.  Goodness, the tonearm alone was worth over $8K in Canada.  Then, I traded in the Ovation for the Innovation Compact and had to kick in something like another $2K.  I kept the arm and added the VTA lifter to the package and there it was.

 

I made a lot of changes this year in anticipation of downsizing homes.  That included selling the Klipschorns that I had fully rebuilt and picking up the Kharma's. Other changes were selling the Audio Research LS-27 and VS-115 for the Musical Fidelity 800, and the Audio Research PH-5 for the Musical Fidelity Vinyl.  Oh, and sold close to 1,500 rock LP's that have all been recorded with the Korg.  

 

Music is an important thing in our house, something we enjoy every day.  The TV is in the basement for watching movies only.

 

Please understand that it's hard to believe that this digital system is on par with that analog setup.

[mordante]

On 7/2/2018 at 7:09 AM, Daverz said:

I don't see any reason to go down this route unless you already have a lot of records (in good condition) to play.  To build a record collection at this late date?  I don't see the point.  

 

 

Why hey would it be different compared to starting a cd collect.

[StephenJK]

On 7/6/2018 at 2:56 PM, GUTB said:

 

Please understand that it's hard to believe that this digital system is on par with that analog setup.

On that point I don’t disagree. But I have the comfort of knowing that the recordings of the LP’s will playback to what the digital gear is capable of resolving. And, hey, nothing wrong with Bryston.

[Daverz]

12 hours ago, mordante said:

 

 

Why hey would it be different compared to starting a cd collect.

 

A ever diminishing supply of interesting and affordable LPs in good condition.

 

If you are starting your collecting life today, there are 30 years of music available on CD that will never be available on LP.

 

 

[mordante]

On 7/8/2018 at 7:50 AM, Daverz said:

 

A ever diminishing supply of interesting and affordable LPs in good condition.

 

If you are starting your collecting life today, there are 30 years of music available on CD that will never be available on LP.

 

 

 

I mostly buy new music most older music holds no interest to me. In my collection there are maybe 20 to 40 LP's I bought second hand. The last LP's I bought:

 

Roger Waters - Is This The Life We Really Want?

Guns N' Roses - Appetite For Destruction

Sleep - The Sciences

Various - Guardians Of The Galaxy Awesome Mix Vol. 1

Wrekmeister Harmonies - The Alone Rush

My Dying Bride - The Angel And The Dark River

Amenra - Mass I

Amenra - Mass II

Amenra - Mass III

Amenra - Mass IIII

Amenra - Mass V

The Angelic Process - We All Die Laughing

Amenra - Mass VI

Danny Cavanagh - Monochrome

See very few second hand/old release albums. Not everyone is into jazz or blues.

[mav52]

On 7/6/2018 at 2:56 PM, GUTB said:

 

Please understand that it's hard to believe that this digital system is on par with that analog setup.

Come on now, its not necessary to throw the snob card if you haven';t acutely heard his system,

[Daverz]

9 hours ago, mordante said:

 

I mostly buy new music most older music holds no interest to me. In my collection there are maybe 20 to 40 LP's I bought second hand. The last LP's I bought:

 

Roger Waters - Is This The Life We Really Want?

Guns N' Roses - Appetite For Destruction

Sleep - The Sciences

 

Yes, I did think of adding that if your musical interests are satisfied, and you don't mind the prices for many new LPs, then it might work for you.  I think there was even one guy here who had only 180 gram LPs in his collection!

 

 

 

[NipperDog]

I gave up records and I'm streaming now. I was just too obsessed with stylus cleaning, arm height, VTA, cartridge alignment, azimuth, tracking weight, anti-skate adjustments, record static, cleaning records, stylus cleaning, stylus wear, rumble blah blah blah.

 

You can have it, I'm gonna concentrate on the music! 

[mav52]

On 7/4/2018 at 11:24 PM, GUTB said:

 

Does testosterone defenciency push men to Fikus plants?

could be, could be

[Ralf11]

maybe it pushes people into mis-spelling

[GUTB]

On 7/9/2018 at 4:23 AM, mordante said:

 

I mostly buy new music most older music holds no interest to me. In my collection there are maybe 20 to 40 LP's I bought second hand. The last LP's I bought:

 

Roger Waters - Is This The Life We Really Want?

Guns N' Roses - Appetite For Destruction

Sleep - The Sciences

Various - Guardians Of The Galaxy Awesome Mix Vol. 1

Wrekmeister Harmonies - The Alone Rush

My Dying Bride - The Angel And The Dark River

Amenra - Mass I

Amenra - Mass II

Amenra - Mass III

Amenra - Mass IIII

Amenra - Mass V

The Angelic Process - We All Die Laughing

Amenra - Mass VI

Danny Cavanagh - Monochrome

See very few second hand/old release albums. Not everyone is into jazz or blues.

 

This seems like a non-audiophile library. Is it true that audiophiles only listen to jazz, classical with maybe a sprinkling of classic rock?

[kumakuma]

9 minutes ago, GUTB said:

 

This seems like a non-audiophile library. Is it true that audiophiles only listen to jazz, classical with maybe a sprinkling of classic rock?

 

No

[Kimo]

14 minutes ago, GUTB said:

 

This seems like a non-audiophile library. Is it true that audiophiles only listen to jazz, classical with maybe a sprinkling of classic rock?

No.  Mostly well recorded female vocals and string quartets.  Jazz typically is purchased for credibility, not listening.