The price of vinyl satisfaction?

[esimms86]

Yes, I know what forum this is and, no, this thread is not one of those vinyl vs. digital pissing contests. I was just reading elsewhere about the Grado Aeon cartridge that sells for $6000. This got to wondering if someone already satisfied with the amp/preamp/speakers in their rig were to take an audiophile dive into vinyl, how much would they need to spend to again reach an undisputed level of audio nirvana. I'm guessing that 20 to 30 thousand dollars spent on a vinyl rig(turntable, arm, cartridge, cleaning supplies, LP sleeves, etc., all in sans furniture and vibration control and, of course, LPs) would probably get you there. Yes, you could spend a lot more but you wouldn't have to. I should also add that, when I was imagining such a rig, I did so with the understanding that an expenditure of 20 to 30 thousand dollars is not what many in this hobby would consider extravagant.

[esimms86]

It sounds like shopping for a vinyl rig is fairly similar to shopping for a good DAC. One could be very happy at $4k, after which the sky’s the limit.

[esimms86]

7 hours ago, GUTB said:

 

I recently upgraded to a Triangle Art Concerto + platter upgrade + Jelco 750 ($4k), Triangle Art Crystal speed controller ($2k) and Triangle Art Zeus cartridge ($2k). Manufacturer price all in was $8k (MSRP is a lot higher). The crucial upgrade to SQ over my old MoFi StudioDeck ($1k) + AT-OC9ML/II ($500) is in the area of dynamic performance; the new setup renders life-like dynamic speed and power which I believe is the key to being happy with a system. Did I need to spend $8K to achieve this level of performance? Maybe not, but that is the price I ended up paying.

 

Also, you can't just play any vinyl. They MUST be audiophile grade pressings. Actually, this is very important to get across: don't worry about the gear, that's the easy part -- worry about the vinyl you're going to play on it. Here's the deal -- most vinyl SUCKS. There's a FEW audiophile labels that CONSISTENTLY put out high quality pressings (MoFi and Analog Productions). It's NOT ENOUGH to just be on 180-200g vinyl. It's NOT ENOUGH to just be from a limited audiophile label -- case in point, half my Reference Recordings records are UN-LISTENABLE due to NOISE. An expensive system will be wasted on noisy and/or compressed junk. Modern big label releases are purely a crap-shoot, with crap being the most common outcome.

My understanding is that, with the proper stylus and record cleaners and static removers, you could have an enjoyable listening experience  even when spinning some non-audiophile discs. 

[esimms86]

19 hours ago, PeterSt said:

 

Hey You,

 

Yes, I read that (quote above) but I know where you come from. Please do yourself a favor and when you audition a TT in your home, don't make the mistake in thinking "oh, those highs - those dynamics, I will find them in there in due time".

You won't.

 

IOW, I know my NOS1a/G3 and I know yours too. So be careful, especially when really a lot of money will be involved (and I think it will anyway, starting with that cartridge that next will put "some" constraints on the TT).

 

Btw, I could do the exercise too, but for the exercise indeed - ready to give up at some stage. But it would intrigue me as part of the hobby - "can I get there ?". I suppose this is your motivation just the same ? I guess you'd have my support (FWIW but let's start with a long term relation ).

 

Peter

Yes, I’m aware of the limitations of vinyl and I’m also not looking to match the experience of listening to digital files played using my NOS1a/G3. I also expect that the XXHE Mach III PC has taken things to a whole other level.

 

In the meantime, my interest in vinyl is part nostalgia for the old days and the ritual of playing vinyl, and part social(i.e., having friends come over, bringing their own records to listen to). It’s nice to be pleasantly surprised by the introduction of music heretofore unknown to you.

 

I don’t think this degree of involvement will require a $6,000 cartridge.

[esimms86]

39 minutes ago, zackthedog said:

 

If you just want to have fun with old vinyl, get a Rega Planar 2, a Benz Micro MC20EII and a decent used phono pre and enjoy.  It's a very lively combination and so easy to set up.  $1000 bucks.  You could go even cheaper buy an old Technics or Dual won't be as thoroughly musical.  Just my .02!

I have a Marantz KI Pearl integrated amp with phono pre built in so I’m already part of the way there. I’m somewhat concerned about making a cartridge selection since I wouldn’t want to damage expensive vinyl. Digital files are so much more forgiving! Obviously, I still wouldn’t need to go crazy with spending on the cartridge.

 

 I had a Garrard turntable back in the day. I later replaced it with a Dual turntable and, still later, replaced the Dual with a linear tracking B&O. 

[esimms86]

4 hours ago, PeterSt said:

Already the cleaning of the LP's makes me want to go back to them. Such a ritual and always being sure all would sound better again.

Maybe I cleaned them with snake oil ?

Using a colored marker on the edge my CDs, in addition to having the proper  Shakti Stones, always did wonders for my listening experiences! ?

 

Overpriced water and detergent beats snake oil every time. Now, could you pass me that anti-static gun?

[esimms86]

1 hour ago, SJK said:

 

Remember that with high end audio, and certainly with analog that a 10% improvement takes a 300 to 400% increase in cost.  Rough numbers, sure, but you get my point.

 

A VPI Classic 30th Anniversary can be yours for $2,500 and that's a mighty fine turntable.  Pair that with something like a Dynavector DV-20X2 for another $1,000 and you've got a great system.  

 

Small improvements come with a great cost.  And, if you want to be able to resolve those subtle differences then the rest of your system has to be up to snuff as well.  

 

I would suggest you start with something credible, you should be able to do this for well under $4,000.  Then, let your ears be your guide.  You may find that investment is all you need to make. 

 

Full disclosure - my turntable, tonearm and cartridge come in at a replacement cost of of over $20K.  That's not what I paid, I tend to buy used equipment (not cartridges) from a dealer that I trust.  

 

That, of course is with quite a number of turntable upgrades over the years.  With what I have now I think I'm set.  Clearaudio Innovation Compact, Clearaudio Universal Tonearm and Dynavector Te Kaitora Rua cartridge.  I have all of the gizmos and accessories such as Feikert protractor and the Adjust+ software to nail the alignment precisely.

I find your full disclosure to be intriguing. You must have an incredible system to warrant a vinyl rig priced at $20,000 if bought new.