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High powered integrated amp recommendations


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I am considering auditioning some higher powered electronics with my Alta Audio Celesta FRM-2 monitors.  They are of a nominal 4 ohm load.  I am only interested in integrated amps.  So far I have come up with 2 candidates.

 

1. Pass Labs INT 250

2. Jeff Rowland Continuum S2

 

I have ruled out a few brands already for various reasons:  Accuphase, Ayre, Boulder, Chord, Devialet, and Musical Fidelity.

 

Looking for suggestions and at least 200 watts per channel into 8 ohms.  Market seems smaller than I had thought.  I am done with heavy separates and monoblocks, though obviously the Pass isn't very easy on the back.

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  • Kimo changed the title to High powered integrated amp recommendations

Thanks for a lot of great options.  I have divided them up into classes.

 

Gryphon looks to be something special 950 watts into 2 ohms.  16k retail.  

 

Pass INT 250: I am familiar with the Pass gear and from the description posted sounds like a typically great Pass unit.  

Accuphase 470: Rated at 180 into 8 ohms and 260 into 4 ohms, so I am not sure how it compares to the others on the list that double down.  Priced similarly to the Pass.  Offers more flexibility and less back breaking.

 

Modwright and Coda look similar and are priced closely at retail 5K and 6K respectively.  Either one looks like a great "economy" option.  

 

Would love to have a Gryphon, Accuphase/Pass, Modwright/Coda shootout.

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I have carved the auditioning list down to the Gryphon and the Coda.  I was able to find a helpful thread on Audiogon that discussed many of the models mentioned here.

 

Finding a demo may be tough, however.  May start with the Coda which is 10K cheaper at retail.

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On 6/12/2018 at 10:05 PM, gmgraves said:

Yeah, most integrateds are 150 WPC or less. I'd recommend the Parasound Halo integrated at 160 WPC @8Ω if you weren't in need of 200 WPC or greater into 8Ω because it sounds fabulous. 

I am not sure I am in need of 200 wpc or greater, but I would like to give a high powered integrated a try.  I have used Pass 60.8 amps on these speakers and while they sounded excellent, I ended up going back to tubes.  Not sure I will depart from tubes, but I would just like to hear what big power can do.

 

I am familiar with Pass sound, so the INT 250 will always be an option.  It is big and hot, however.  The Gryphon looks great, but is really pricey and not available for demo, at least for me.  I am going to give the Coda integrated a shot.  At 400 watts into 8 ohms and 800 in 4 ohms., it certainly qualifies as big power and it only weighs in at 55 lbs.  I read that the Coda guys came from Threshold, where they worked along side Nelson Pass.  Made in USA and priced at a reasonable 6K.  Just have to track down a demo.

 

If I don't like what the Coda does, I doubt I will be blown away by the others.  I will have to concede my audiophile life to tubes with big heat and transformers.  I do appreciate all the suggestions.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Boneman, how does the Pass sound compare with the Coda sound?  I have a pretty good idea about Pass and am interested in Coda.

 

"Previously I was considering the Pass Labs Int250 having owned Threshold and Pass Labs equipment in the past as well as the Coda and Classe." 

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I got to hear a couple of powerful amps last night (not integrated) and noticed a little tighter, perhaps deeper bass and maybe a little more snap.  There were some not so good things I noticed as well, however.

 

I have not extensively listened to a AB amp in my system for a long time.  I have been running Class A. or heavily biased to Class A amps, both tube and solid state, non-stop for over 10 years. I thought none of the AB amps sounded as smooth.  Of course, there was no Gryphon in the bunch.  

 

I wonder if part of the Class A sound involves a little more laid back performance?  They certainly should have plenty of current on hand.  I don't have what it takes to bring a couple high powered class A monoblock amps in for audition, and I am unsure if I want to live with them again.  

 

I am going to track down an AB amp with no more 100 watts to see if I hear the same thing.  Maybe, I don't need lots of power on these speakers to get that snappier sound. 

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  • 4 months later...

I have been able to get a few auditions in, and have learned a few things.

 

I believe high current, if for only brief periods, is even more important in my case, than high power.  With that said, I have broken the list down to Coda and Krell for domestics, and the Gryphon 120 and the T + A 2500 for imports.  I am going to try to get a home audition on a couple of these, but it won't be easy.  I need to compare them back to back with my high powered tube amp.

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40 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

 

Mcintosh are high powered, high current amps, that live up to their name and have the best resell value if you find yourself a minority amongst mcintosh owners.

 

If your pride won't allow you to buy a big box amp that easily surpasses others in it's price range, i would go with the pass labs as in my a/b testing of dozens of amps, came the closest to depth, separation, and sound stage that mcintosh has.

I have not completely ruled out McIntosh, but detail is something that the Alta's love, and it is my understanding that the Macs aren't known for detail, as much as tone.

 

I don't think it likely that I will purchase either the Gryphon or the T+A.  It is probably less likely that I will even get to hear them in my system.  Also, I don't want to be in a position where I have to ship a 100 box back to Denmark or Germany, if I run into an issue, so that is also a concern.  Nevertheless, I will give it a shot.

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1 hour ago, beerandmusic said:

i have never ever heard macs don't have detail, and i always here a great deal of detail...even googling "mcintosh amp detail", you will find tons more that say they have lots of detail than those that suggest otherwise.  They are known to be warm, detailed, and not harsh, but what i find makes them unique compared to other amps i have a/b'd with is the spaciousness and depth.  Pass labs came close, but none surpassed the mcintosh in that area, and what i consider the most important aspect.  the depth, soundstage, spaciousness, detail and warmth is what makes the mcintosh stand apart from all others imho in their class...although i have never compared to the more expensive 10K up amps.

I did the line up a look through.  Read up on autoformers.  Seems like every model now includes a digital section, and I am not looking for that option with integrated.  

 

Also noticed the T+A is being sold at a bit of a premium here, and that causes me to lose interest.  

 

It may come down to the Gryphon and Pass INT 250.  I told myself no more 100 lb components, but at least with the 250 I only have to deal with one vs. two with Pass monoblocks.

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2 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

not the 252...besides many have digital modules that can be removed if you don't want the digital inputs, but i won't try to convince you of something you don't want (grin).

252 has digital inputs, as well.  All of them do, according to the website.  They vary as to whether or not they have a DA1 link.  

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7 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

Baloney. McIntosh has done a complete revamp of their units and the sound is gorgeous and modern as you could hope for. Go listen. You'll probably walk out with a Mc amp.

I have read a few reviews of recent units, and they still discuss the component in terms of not being detailed as other options.   

 

But, it really doesn't matter with them or Levinson, at least for me.  I don't plan on paying for digital facilities that I won't be using.  Looking into an audition of the Gryphon, at this point.  I have a pretty good idea of Pass sound.  The new Krell isn't out yet.  

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4 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

I don't have to read reviews, I own some.

I get it.  Certainly they can be quite spotty.

 

I am little surprised to see McIntosh divide is so strong on both sides.  For every lover, there is a hater.

 

If I go this route, it will be used and DAC free.  I expect the imports will drop off,  due to the inability to actually hear a 10K amp, prior to purchase.

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5 hours ago, bos said:

I have recently purchased the AUDIA FLIGHT FLS10 integrated amp.

A truly magnificent sounding amp.

Audia FLS 10 

The new integrated stereo amplifier is completely designed and made in Italy.

The design incorporates the elegant and functional lines from the new generation of production of the Italian house Audia;

a lot of time has been devoted to the design to make the command operations and ergonomics so ergonomic

pleasing their visualization.

The particularity of the FLS 10 is also given by the presence of two rear doors, where it is possible to insert different types of optional cards: Phono and DAC.

The integrated amplifier FLS10 has a power of 200Wrms on 8ohm, aluminum chassis, 32 transistors only for the output stages, toroidal 2000W transformer, unbalanced and balanced inputs and outputs, headphone output and many other features that put it at the top of its category.

 

FLS looks to be spot on for my interests.  Should mate well with my Aqua DAC.  Now to hear one.

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14 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

The problem with buying a used one, DAC free, is you will get an old one that sounds exactly like you don't want...

Actually, the 8900 and 9000 seemed to be priced "reasonably" given everything included, and the Digital Module is removable and can be upgraded.

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On 11/19/2018 at 7:14 PM, AudioDoctor said:

 

Yeah, if you can get one of those used, that would be a great deal. When you said you would get a used one, I was assuming you wanted something other than the latest model. I have a MAC7200 and could not be happier with it. I also have a D1100 and MP1100 in my main system. That's how much I like the new McIntosh sound.

I feel it my be tough to find a used 9000.  I did see a couple of 8000 models on Agon though.  I do have a local dealer, so I will give whatever they have hand a listen.

 

The list keeps shrinking: Pass INT 250, new Krell K300i, McIntosh 200-300 watt model.  Maybe, a Coda.  Imports have been dismissed for all the non-audio reasons usually encountered.  

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35 minutes ago, SJK said:

I'm curious as to why or how you discounted other options out of hand - particularly the Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista 800.  I picked up a used one this summer, trading in my Audio Research LS-27 and VS-115.  Without a doubt, the Nu-Vista is the very definition of a straight wire with gain.  It plays music without adding any coloration and brings out every subtle detail to a wide and deep soundstage.  

Some stuff has been left off the list, based on the company/importer.  Not interested in their manufacturing practices.  Might sound great, but not interested.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, SJK said:

Then call me confused. You don’t care about a better sound, but you care about what?

 

Some obsure agenda?  

 

Please.  Give us some detail as to what really matters to you. 

 

For MF, for what they charge, it shouldn't be built in Taiwan, or where ever they off shore it to nowadays.   To be less obscure, I consider MF a joke of a company.

 

Plenty of great brands to choose from, so I don't need to buy from any greedy company or silly importer.  

 

1. Nothing is so special that I need to pay 20-30 percent over retail in the home country to import to USA.

2. Nothing is so special that it needs to be off shored only to enhance profit at pretty these silly price points.

 

No way Parasound or MF can be said to necessarily sound better than Pass, Krell, etc.  No better design, no better parts, only more profit for them at their price points, and I am not interested in them.

 

 

 

 

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To get back on track, I was able to actually listen to a few of these super integrated amps that have been mentioned, and I find my short list shifting a bit.

 

1. Pass INT 250:  Back in play.  Simply prefer the Pass sound to some of the others that I have heard so far.

2. Luxman 509X: Apparently not quite up to the sonic level of their Class A 30 watt model, but more powerful.  The new Luxman seems pretty serious about their product again. 

3. Linnenberg: Not exactly an integrated, but by combining the DAC/preamp with the stereo or monoblock amps versatility is maintained, along with a smaller footprint.   

 

Anyone heard the Luxman, or able to compare Luxman with Pass?

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  • 2 weeks later...

I settled upon an option.  Working on getting it to the house.  Not an integrated, per se, but a DAC/Preamp & Power Amp combo from the same maker.  150 into 8 ohms, 250 into 4 ohms, and fine with a 2 ohm load.  First 20 watts class A, with an enormous SNR.  Not a Benchmark combo.

 

Will review and update upon audition.  

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  • 1 month later...
8 hours ago, firedog said:

Wondering if you thought of an integrated that has a tube pre. Many of the advantages of an SS integrated, and you might like the tubes involved. Or an SS power amp with a tube input section. There are a few on the market. 

 

That is actually a very good idea, but I am going in a completely different direction with a DAC/Preamp playing straight into an amp.  The DAC has an input to run my VPI  and the volume control is analog.  I simply couldn't find an integrated to match the specs: 20 watts class A, 150 into 8 ohms with no issues into 2, and 126 db SNR.  I should have the set up in house in a couple of weeks and will report then.  Likely my last audiophile amp.  Might be it for the system, as well. 

 

Not sure how much more is left.  I am unwilling to go with 100+ lb mono blocks any longer.

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  • 2 months later...

I have the Linnenberg Wydor in the house and am running it with LInnenberg Telemann DAC/Preamp.  This accounts for my "integrated" solution.  

 

Not sure how much break in is needed, but I would characterize the sound this way.  Much like a clearer, more extended version of Pass Labs Class A offerings, the combo offers amazing depth compared with most other amps that I have had in the listening room.  The high SNR results in more subtle ques being more obvious, but not thrown out of proportion. 

 

Bass is a strong suit as well.  I never noticed this much texture on "Dreams."  Cymbals are extended, but so far never really harsh.  This of course may be due to the sound of the RAAL tweeter, at least in part.

 

The Linnenberg sound can be summed up as detailed, clean, deep, and colorful, with strong bass and extended highs.  

 

Well worth the wait.

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