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Pink Faun 2.16


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18 hours ago, lpost said:

 

My system became unstable at these low (lowest possible) voltages, at least for CPU.  I've returned to default voltages for both and haven't noticed any SQ degradation.  The lower CPU frequency is definitely better sounding to me.  I'm back to using HQPe though, it just sounds more natural to me than Roon alone.

 

I worked with Piero a bit regarding the pstate issues and AMD Ryzen.  He's on holiday but will work on it upon his return, though I'm perfectly happy setting the values in bios and be done with it.

 

Yes changing the bios settings to more extreme values make the system less stable especially if left on continuously. I’m getting between 1 to 7 days stability before I have to reboot. Not for all people I suppose, only tweakers like us! 😄

 

 Many here would focus on the sound of streamer optimisations but in reality the sound is the entire system including pre-amps, power, speakers, room etc. So there isn’t really an optimal adjustment, only what works for each of us. I used to be very into HQP / room correction before and during that time it really helped my system too.

 

Look forward to Piero’s fixes too. I’m finding the CPU governer settings are not working in the AL menu. It’s causing inconsistencies.

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I'm now running CPU at 1.0v and MEM at 1.1, each tick lower adds just a bit more 'analog' goodness to the sound texture and as a bonus a reduction in CPU temperature.

 

I'm not running isolated cores as I find it slows Roon to a crawl with only one core available to it.  I spent a few hours going back and forth between HPQe upsampling and not (within my I2S card limit of 192kHz output), and still prefer not with my DAC, but do like HQPe over Roon.  I also still prefer x-over convolution filters I made up a couple years ago to not.  They help 'fix' my asymmetric room and are very subtle but I miss them if turned off.  HQPe convolution (matrix) SQ is better than Roon processing them, in my opinion

 

Here's my last communication with Piero specific to the AMD Ryzen CPU governor issues:

 

Hello,
I have removed (menu will check if installed and remove if present)  the application pstate-frequency, since now acpi is the new default for PinkFaun.
From what you are telling me I should leave both option (intel pstate and acpi) in PinkFaun version as in standard Audiolinux.

I cannot  release a new version of menu until the end of July, since I am in holiday...
As a temporary fix, go to /opt/scripts/update.sh and delete this section:

if (pacman -Q pstate-frequency &>/dev/null) ; then
systemctl stop pstate-frequency
systemctl disable pstate-frequency
pacman -R pstate-frequency --noconfirm
fi

After you can re-enable pstate frequency with (as root)

pacman -S pstate-frequency --noconfirm
systemctl enable pstate-frequency

and possibly disable cpupower
systemctl disable cpupower

After you can reboot. 

Please don't use  8 "SET CPU governor to performance or custom (turbo on/off)"  after these changes

Best Regards,
Piero

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@flkin  Darn you, now you having dreaming about upgrading my last gen clocks in the 2.16.  I have I2S board, CPU and motherboard clocks.  I suspect the I2S board would benefit the most from the new uber clock.

 

Finding my system's stable values:

 

This is sounding really fantastically good! But I'm at the limit I care to tolerate for Roon responsiveness.  It most certainly likes core GHz performance.  I've also tried other combinations of BIOS set numbers of cores.  System runs 1-2C cooler with 4 or 6 cores but I'm maintaining 39C at idle to ~41C-45C cpu temp with all 8 and I really don't notice enough difference to matter.  

 

Reducing CPU freq has the largest impact, followed by reducing voltages - along with RAM voltages and values like 2133/1886.

 

...carefully saving the bios preset to avoid losing current settings.  I keep a log too but it's tedious to go through some of these value changes.

 

What BIOS version are you running.  

 

Bios settings:

- CPU frequency 2400Mhz

- CPU voltage at 0.95volts

- RAM voltage at 1.15volts

 

DSzibRZ.png

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8 hours ago, lpost said:

@flkin  Darn you, now you having dreaming about upgrading my last gen clocks in the 2.16.  I have I2S board, CPU and motherboard clocks.  I suspect the I2S board would benefit the most from the new uber clock.

 

Finding my system's stable values:

 

This is sounding really fantastically good! But I'm at the limit I care to tolerate for Roon responsiveness.  It most certainly likes core GHz performance.  I've also tried other combinations of BIOS set numbers of cores.  System runs 1-2C cooler with 4 or 6 cores but I'm maintaining 39C at idle to ~41C-45C cpu temp with all 8 and I really don't notice enough difference to matter.  

 

Reducing CPU freq has the largest impact, followed by reducing voltages - along with RAM voltages and values like 2133/1886.

 

...carefully saving the bios preset to avoid losing current settings.  I keep a log too but it's tedious to go through some of these value changes.

 

What BIOS version are you running.  

 

Bios settings:

- CPU frequency 2400Mhz

- CPU voltage at 0.95volts

- RAM voltage at 1.15volts

 

DSzibRZ.png

 

Its never ending 😄, we’ll always find something else to add or adjust eventually!

 

The new clocks made a very nice change for me, not to say that the old ones were lacking in any way but it’s another step towards reality. The i2s will have to wait will I change my DAC but intriguing given the number that have switched from USB. But something definitely I will go for in the future. I do have a number of DSD files so that might be a consideration. That said I’m not finding that DSDs are 64 times the resolution of redbook cds only that they tend to be thicker sounding with slightly more ambient details in my system so limited loss. Hmmmm...

I’m talking myself into trouble!

 

I haven’t updated my Bios before. It’s still at P4.70. Have there been any changes?

 

These bios changes are making my sound more organic and analogue, more true to reality. But tends to reduce dynamics. I compensate with higher volume and its till ok since the noise level is so low anyway.

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I had some ram stability issues and one of the bios updates had increase ram compatibility.  It didn't resolve the issue, Jord replaced the ram, but it didn't hurt either.  If you're not experiencing issues beyond under volting, I'd leave it alone.  While there are recovery methods, a bad fw update can brick the main board.

 

I've not noticed a lack of dynamics but agree completely with the more organic analog 'feel'.  I really enjoy the widening of the stage with the same solid central image.  Sounds well beyond the sides and behind the speakers.

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On 7/19/2019 at 5:05 PM, lpost said:

Congrats on the 2.16.  It's a fantastic machine.  Mine is just over a year old.  You're getting in at a great time in Piero's AudioLinux development.  It's not always been so slick and well done.

 

I put in a, long since retired from work, PCIe fiber nic in 6 months ago for a modest improvement.  Drivers were already on the system so it was no fuss whatsoever.

 

 

 

Thanks, I just got it and I'm very happy with it so far.  It's only been two days so I need to put more hours on still.  I got the OXCO upgrades and I'm told these take a bit of time to settle in.   But even brand new, the quality is on another level compared to any of my previous spaghetti setups. 

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As I've had the 2.16 over a year now, yesterday I decided it was time to breakdown and dispose of the ~15kgs crate the 2.16 shipped across the Atlantic to me.  Yeah, good luck, I removed all the screws only to find the multi-layer plywood and bracing is glued together like would be done by a fine cabinet maker.  Impeccable.

 

Give your 2.16 a month to settle, then have fun learning about tuning AudioLinux.  Flkin and I have spent the past year learning what we both like in our systems and have settled on settings/choices that are very similar to one another.  Happy to help you get there over time if you're at all interested in squeezing out even more goodness (and sometimes more than modest) from it.

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Hi @EliteDJ

 

The standard settings as delivered by PF has all 8 cores working. The Audiolinux OS allows you to play with isolating and using only certain cores and my preferred setting is using only 1 core. 

 

And yes there is a video card inside so you can access the bios for adjustments. But since it consumes power and probably affects the sound, I usually disconnect it during normal playback. But to make it easier to reconnect I’ve added a cable extension for the card socket that leads outside the unit. So I can plug in and remove the card easily.

 

 198E51A8-52E7-42BB-97A1-FB7F800F7979.thumb.jpeg.497c040696fdcb90ad03cbb0457e2f65.jpeg

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Hi Flkin,

 

I adjusted my processor order to the AMX 1700X so it matches the PC components that make up the 2.16 music server.  You mentioned that yours came with a video card that you use for setting your BIAS adjustments.  Do you have the make and model of that video card?  I figured that I'd add the one that they send with their servers to my system.  Thanks for your past responses and the information that you have shared. Dave

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On 8/1/2019 at 9:47 PM, EliteDJ said:

Hi Flkin,

 

I adjusted my processor order to the AMX 1700X so it matches the PC components that make up the 2.16 music server.  You mentioned that yours came with a video card that you use for setting your BIAS adjustments.  Do you have the make and model of that video card?  I figured that I'd add the one that they send with their servers to my system.  Thanks for your past responses and the information that you have shared. Dave

Hey Dave,

 

Sorry for late reply, travelling overseas currently.

 

Can't remember off hand what the card name is (might be a generic one without name actually) but it doesn't really matter what you use since it isn't really necessary for playback. Only need it during the setting up of the Bios, so you can remove it after.

 

Have fun with the build,

 

Best, Kin

 

 

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1 hour ago, flkin said:

Hey Dave,

 

Sorry for late reply, travelling overseas currently.

 

Can't remember off hand what the card name is (might be a generic one without name actually) but it doesn't really matter what you use since it isn't really necessary for playback. Only need it during the setting up of the Bios, so you can remove it after.

 

Have fun with the build,

 

Best, Kin

 

 

 

The video card used in my PinkFaun server is :

https://tweakers.net/pricewatch/293518/sapphire-hd-6450-2gb-ddr3.html

Dirk

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Hi Flkin,

 

I adjusted my processor order to the AMX 1700X so it matches the PC components that make up the 2.16 music server.  You mentioned that yours came with a video card that you use for setting your BIAS adjustments.  Do you have the make and model of that video card?  I figured that I'd add the one that they send with their servers to my system.  Thanks for your past responses and the information that you have shared. Dave

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I'm using HDplex's older flag ship case that had the square lcd button in the front as compared to their newest offerring, link provided below:

https://www.hdplex.com/hdplex-h5-fanless-computer-case.html

It's an 8 heat pipe silent chassis that is capable of cooling up to a 95W CPU and it lists both the CPU and motherboard used in the 2.16 server as compatible.  I also have one of their 200 Watt Linear CPUs to power the server.  I had these items working with my older build running a 65 Watt 2nd Gen i5.  I'm hoping the increase in CPU power to 95W won't make the system unstable but we'll see how it goes. I want to impliment the Pink Faun SPDIF Bridge and try a Linx based OS, Euphony or AudioLinux on the new build.

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On 8/5/2019 at 6:44 AM, EliteDJ said:

Hi Flkin,

 

I adjusted my processor order to the AMX 1700X so it matches the PC components that make up the 2.16 music server.  You mentioned that yours came with a video card that you use for setting your BIAS adjustments.  Do you have the make and model of that video card?  I figured that I'd add the one that they send with their servers to my system.  Thanks for your past responses and the information that you have shared. Dave

Hi, not Flkin but I have the 2.16. The card is a fanless AMD Radeon but any card that is PCI will do.  I use it only when running through extensive BIOS tweaks or when updating kernel just in case I can't get connected via SSH, otherwise like Flkin, I remove it.

 

The real value of the 2.16 is the massively overbuilt, star-grounded 3 transformer power supply(s) and dedicated clocks for CPU, chipset and I/O card(s).  The MB and proc are off the shelf.  I suspect you know this...don't stress the video card, buy the cheapest card and remove it when not needed.  It cannot enhance sound quality/noise, only degrade.  I go weeks or months without inserting it.

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Hi Ipost,

 

Thanks for the reply.  I'll grab a low powered graphic card that I have laying around from an older build and will certainly remove it when not tweeking, appreciate the suggestion. I will be getting the SPDIF bridge I/O card in February and possibly send in the motherboard to see if the gents at Pink Faun can add the better CPU clocks to the motherboard and chipset.  I admire the Pink Faun Power Supply work but I also admire saving $8,000 US Dollars ($12,000 2.16x cost minus the $4,000 I'll spend on parts) and use the 400Watt HDPLEX Linear Power Supply.  My 53 year old ears have become my weakest link these days. :)  Quick question- I'm thinking the chipset clock supports the digital signal as it travels to the PCIE slot that the SPDIF bridge plugged into is that a correct statement?

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I hear you on the $8000 spend. It was definitely a splurge item for me.  Yes, the data must go through the main board chipset to get to or from a PCIe slot.  Jord will confirm, the I/O board clock is most important.  They don't have a SPDIF option on their site but he did tell me some time ago they could build one if that's the interface you want.

 

I use I2S and have no plans to change. 

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I used WS 2012 Datacenter/Audio Optimizer/JRiver on my original music server but I wanted to try something different on the new build.  I had a Bryston BDP1 for about 6 months and it used their version of Linux and it sounded pretty good.  I figured trying a version of Linux designed for audio made sense so I started looking about 6 moths ago and ran into Euphony. I couldn't test audio on my original server because Euphony couldn't properly detect the server's sound card, a ESI Juli@.  Which lead me to this thread, trying to find examples of a sound cards that worked with Euphony, which lead me to Pink Faun and their SPDIF card.  I don't have much experience with Linux except what I learned when using the Bryston. 

 

What would you consider are the strengths and weaknesses between Euphony and Audio-Linux? 

 

As I've learned, they are based on the same Linux kernals so I'd think they would have a similar sound.  Euphony to me looks like a more polished product that is designed for music listeners that don't want to tinker too much with settings. Where Audio-Linux is for folks that like to tweek their sound and are comfortable with command line.  I'm kinda in between at this point. :)

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1 hour ago, EliteDJ said:

I used WS 2012 Datacenter/Audio Optimizer/JRiver on my original music server but I wanted to try something different on the new build.  I had a Bryston BDP1 for about 6 months and it used their version of Linux and it sounded pretty good.  I figured trying a version of Linux designed for audio made sense so I started looking about 6 moths ago and ran into Euphony. I couldn't test audio on my original server because Euphony couldn't properly detect the server's sound card, a ESI Juli@.  Which lead me to this thread, trying to find examples of a sound cards that worked with Euphony, which lead me to Pink Faun and their SPDIF card.  I don't have much experience with Linux except what I learned when using the Bryston. 

 

What would you consider are the strengths and weaknesses between Euphony and Audio-Linux? 

 

As I've learned, they are based on the same Linux kernals so I'd think they would have a similar sound.  Euphony to me looks like a more polished product that is designed for music listeners that don't want to tinker too much with settings. Where Audio-Linux is for folks that like to tweek their sound and are comfortable with command line.  I'm kinda in between at this point. :)

 

It is difficult to compare without buying, AL gives no trial opportunity. As I own both endpoint versions (HQPlayer desktop on a server) I can compare directly. Both works very good. However, I am little overwhelmed with all AL tinker opportunities. Difficult to decide what works better with HQPlayer which is also provides a lot of settings. As of today, I would use Euphony more. It gives more natural, deep, soft and smooth presentation, more forgiving for not so excellent recorded material. While AL is slightly puny and thin in comparison. Euphony gives better overall picture, AL more details and focus, probably. All this is system related, of course.

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Same OS, different kernel versions, and different tweak options.

 

In terms of tweaking, here is how I see it:

Euphony-AL.jpg.6cf8265c80f717cdc72da6f05f1612d6.jpg

 

In terms of sound quality, if you get the right combination between all the knobs on AL, one might be able to make it sound like Euphony. If even one of the knobs is a little off, it would sound different. Better or worse would depend on the settings, your system, room, and taste. I purchased both but use Euphony. 

 

Industry disclosure:
https://chicagohifi.com

Dealer for: Taiko Audio, Conrad Johnson, Audio Mirror, and Sean Jacobs

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