Popular Post mansr Posted May 27, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 27, 2018 25 minutes ago, #Yoda# said: In my experience the benefits of balanced headphone cables stand out impressively when you use a DAP with well designed balanced amplification. Not least, the additional power helps, especially with higher impedance headphones like the Sennheiser HD 800 with many headphone amps. The power argument is a red herring. Nothing inherently limits the output power of a single-ended amp. lucretius and Nordkapp 2 Link to comment
#Yoda# Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 22 minutes ago, mansr said: The power argument is a red herring. Nothing inherently limits the output power of a single-ended amp. In case of a mobile device, the battery runtime limits the output power finally. Is there any reason to use a single ended output if you use an amp with fully balanced design? Link to comment
mansr Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 30 minutes ago, #Yoda# said: In case of a mobile device, the battery runtime limits the output power finally. Is there any reason to use a single ended output if you use an amp with fully balanced design? The battery life depends only on the power drawn from it. A battery has two terminals. How this single voltage is turned into current through the headphone drivers is irrelevant. A specific amp might of course provide the required power only on the balanced outputs, and then that is what one should use. Now we are, however, talking about implementation details, not inherent properties of single-ended or balanced outputs. Link to comment
#Yoda# Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, mansr said: The battery life depends only on the power drawn from it. A battery has two terminals. How this single voltage is turned into current through the headphone drivers is irrelevant. A specific amp might of course provide the required power only on the balanced outputs, and then that is what one should use. Now we are, however, talking about implementation details, not inherent properties of single-ended or balanced outputs. Essential is the final outcome and in my personal experience, many balanced DAPs, headphone amps or headphone outputs of other devices deliver a superior sound quality compared to single-ended. Link to comment
pkane2001 Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 3 hours ago, jabbr said: I used balanced cables on my HD800s ... just because ??♂️ ... the universe should be balanced ? A balanced universe might be a very boring place. It’s the spontaneous symmetry breaking that created the laws of nature in ours, and therefore us, and everything else. Or maybe not ? -Paul DeltaWave, DISTORT, Earful, PKHarmonic, new: Multitone Analyzer Link to comment
jabbr Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 15 hours ago, pkane2001 said: A balanced universe might be a very boring place. It’s the spontaneous symmetry breaking that created the laws of nature in ours, and therefore us, and everything else. ...? Excellent point! Let's say that the background universe should be balanced, and we are the spontaneous symmetry breaking. Analogously, our reproduction electronics should be neutral and balanced, allowing the music to flow spontaneously ? Custom room treatments for headphone users. Link to comment
pkane2001 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 35 minutes ago, jabbr said: Excellent point! Let's say that the background universe should be balanced, and we are the spontaneous symmetry breaking. Analogously, our reproduction electronics should be neutral and balanced, allowing the music to flow spontaneously ? You are a poet, my friend! -Paul DeltaWave, DISTORT, Earful, PKHarmonic, new: Multitone Analyzer Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Why Sennheiser sold him a Sennheiser HD800S balanced cable is the really symmetry-breaking question. Link to comment
mansr Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, Ralf11 said: Why Sennheiser sold him a Sennheiser HD800S balanced cable is the really symmetry-breaking question. [OP] -> Money -> [Sennheiser] Link to comment
sandyk Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Several years ago it was a fad, even with unbalanced outputs, to rewire headphones using 4 wire cables of also a hopefully better quality, and only connect the 0 volts sides together at the amplifier end. If one was using a dual mono type construction, and used a 4 pin plug and socket, the 0 volts wires could then be connected to the 0 volts /earth sides of their respective outputs. I didn't try this, but I did spread a smooth layer of Butyl inside the wooden cups of my Audio Technica W1000 headphones for a nice bit of added dampening of the cups. This was recommended to me by the owner of the forum I once was an Admin in, before leaving due to his increasingly poor behaviour due to alcoholism. Alex Musicophile 1 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 On 5/28/2018 at 5:27 AM, jabbr said: I used balanced cables on my HD800s ... just because ??♂️ ... the universe should be balanced ? Jon You may be interested in my recent post in this thread. Alex https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/28628-my-setup-macbook-pro/?tab=comments#comment-827852 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
jabbr Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 9 hours ago, sandyk said: Jon You may be interested in my recent post in this thread. Alex https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/28628-my-setup-macbook-pro/?tab=comments#comment-827852 I don’t spend a tremendous amount of time thinking about cables. If my DAC has balanced output and my amp balanced input then I use balanced XLR interconnects. I use a resistor network attached to my First Watt J2 to drive my headphones. Sennheiser makes great headphones (I also have AKG) ... since Sennheiser provides for balanced cables to the HD800 that’s what I use ... similarly I use the AC power cord that came with my First Watt ? Custom room treatments for headphone users. Link to comment
jabbr Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Yes my cables are Canare star-quad ... just because its a good brand of cable ... I haven't done head to head listening tests: https://robrobinette.com/BalancedCable.htm You can make your own or buy pre-made The HD800 connectors can be expensive e.g. $40-50 for a pair. You can get cables pre-made: https://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-Sennheiser-HD800-HD800S-HD820-OFC-Mogami-Klotz-Canare-High-Quality-Cable/142717309779?hash=item213a9d5353:m:mzD7B1oLng_W01bAzyrXatQ https://www.ebay.com/i/251578675480?chn=ps&var=550479780509 https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5mm-Balanced-OCC-Silver-Plated-Copper-Cable-For-Sennheiser-HD800-Headphone/222867553801?hash=item33e3f0fe09:m:mIbNfmNk6LHPCrSuVrkPDqw This isn't a big deal Custom room treatments for headphone users. Link to comment
sandyk Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 7 hours ago, jabbr said: I don’t spend a tremendous amount of time thinking about cables. If my DAC has balanced output and my amp balanced input then I use balanced XLR interconnects. I use a resistor network attached to my First Watt J2 to drive my headphones. Sennheiser makes great headphones (I also have AKG) ... since Sennheiser provides for balanced cables to the HD800 that’s what I use ... similarly I use the AC power cord that came with my First Watt ? Incidentally, my old modified (a damping layer of butyl in the wooden cups) Audio Technica W1000 were also designed to comply with the old IEC directive, as were the K701 etc. which many don't apparently realise. I don't spend much time thinking about cables either, or I would have tried what I offered as a suggestion to members of the other forum who were into this cable modding. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 9 hours ago, jabbr said: I don’t spend a tremendous amount of time thinking about cables. Then you aren't an audiophool. Class D sux. I'm nutotypical. Link to comment
phosphorein Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 9 hours ago, jabbr said: Yes my cables are Canare star-quad ... just because its a good brand of cable ... I haven't done head to head listening tests: https://robrobinette.com/BalancedCable.htm You can make your own or buy pre-made The HD800 connectors can be expensive e.g. $40-50 for a pair. You can get cables pre-made: https://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-Sennheiser-HD800-HD800S-HD820-OFC-Mogami-Klotz-Canare-High-Quality-Cable/142717309779?hash=item213a9d5353:m:mzD7B1oLng_W01bAzyrXatQ https://www.ebay.com/i/251578675480?chn=ps&var=550479780509 https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5mm-Balanced-OCC-Silver-Plated-Copper-Cable-For-Sennheiser-HD800-Headphone/222867553801?hash=item33e3f0fe09:m:mIbNfmNk6LHPCrSuVrkPDqw This isn't a big deal And Canare cables with Neutrik connectors from Markertek. Reasonable pricing and good quality. Handmade in New York. jabbr 1 Link to comment
jabbr Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 47 minutes ago, phosphorein said: And Canare cables with Neutrik connectors from Markertek. Reasonable pricing and good quality. Handmade in New York. Totally. If one wants to go high end can use a Lemo connector or similar on the amp output. These would be DIY. Custom room treatments for headphone users. Link to comment
jabbr Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Look, here’s the bottom line sports fans: assuming balanced outputs from the amp, the balanced cable delivers the R +|- to the right headphone and the L +|- to the left headphone, there is no reason to share a “ground”. This is the most natural cabling. Prices for x,y or z are another issue. Did you pay too much? All depends on what you paid ??♂️? sandyk 1 Custom room treatments for headphone users. Link to comment
sandyk Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 There is no reason why it shouldn't work with unbalanced outputs either. Although best results would be to use a 4 pin socket at the amplifier end , you could still connect the earths together at the Shield of a T,R,S plug into a normal TRS socket. ( Tip, Ring and Shield) At least this would get away from the shared " earth" return wire. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
buonassi Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Balanced allows for better channel separation (less crosstalk) over single ended usually. But then again, we're talking going from -85db to -100db of crosstalk. I can't say I hear a difference definitively. Sometimes I think I hear some changes with the staging and a bit of clarity pop. Keep in mind my only balanced source is a DAP and my only balanced transducers are IEMs. If there is a difference, it is very minute under this setup. I have heard people swear by balanced with a true TOTL head rig, however. jabbr 1 Link to comment
Summit Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 An amp or DAC which has a true differential balanced design is intended to sound best if used that way. Link to comment
One and a half Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Curious what was posted here, the HD800S box was found in the garage and inside the original Sennheiser balanced cables fitted with an XLR4 connector. Took a some effort to remove the existing SE plugs and cable as they are on really FT. Unfortunately, a system configuration change meant the comparison of the balanced cables couldn't really be tested, suffice to say what I was hearing I won't bother changing back to the SE cabling for the HD800S. Just thinking about removing the plugs is enough incentive not to do so! Plug connections generic Sennheiser original cable suits HD800, HD800S, HD820. About 3m. AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to comment
Musicophile Posted June 3, 2018 Author Share Posted June 3, 2018 Quick update: I just received notice that the cable was finally posted last Friday (my dealer isn’t the fastest) and I should receive it next week. I‘m still curious to see if I keep it. I can send it back during two weeks for a 10% restocking fee so worst case the experiment wasn’t too expensive. I‘m quite afraid I won’t hear much of a difference, but somehow would love to have the XLR plugs. Check out my blog at musicophilesblog.com - From Keith Jarrett to Johannes Brahms Link to comment
Popular Post Musicophile Posted June 4, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 4, 2018 So, the cable finally arrived. I tried to do a quick A/B vs the standard cable, but the connectors on the headphone side are a bit annoying so I literally did the switch only once. Anyhow, the moment I plugged the XLR into the HDVA600 I knew this was how a connection is supposed to feel. I always found the regular 6.3 jack a bit underwhelming, so pretty much immediately it was clear I wouldn’t go back. So without extensive A/B I really cannot say if SQ-wise I made objectively major step forward, but listening to the combo right now subjectively it sounds better, even more precise and resolving, than ever. This may well have been simply the most expensive plug I ever bought, but it just feels right. After all, this is my “end-game” HP setup and overall I’m still quite cheap by audiophool standards. So happy ending of the story. Anybody interested in an original 6.3 jack Sennheiser cable? AnotherSpin, #Yoda#, austinpop and 2 others 4 1 Check out my blog at musicophilesblog.com - From Keith Jarrett to Johannes Brahms Link to comment
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