Popular Post TubeLover Posted May 17, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 17, 2018 If you combine this article https://www.engadget.com/2018/05/16/tidal-reportedly-months-behind-on-royalty-payments/ with other recently concerning reports, it truly looks like the end is really near for Tidal. I cannot tell you how much I wish those words had never emanated from me, but it is what it is. I have been with Tidal since near the beginning. It literally has changed a major part of how I listen to music. If they do, in fact, fail and disappear, at least 50% of my music listening enjoyment will be lost, which is personally crushing. At present, I am not aware of any available replacement, at least not here in the United States. And honestly, if I had seen this article about the failure to be able to pay the royalties, sooner, it "might" even have made me at least reconsider buying the new speakers that I did yesterday. That is how much losing Tidal would affect me. To even attempt to recover just what I've already experienced musically on Tidal (and is important to me) would cost me many thousands. And not only that, it would only catch me up to where I am at this point in time. There would be no means of continuing forward in the same way. It has always been thought, and commented on here, that there would be alternatives to Tidal if they one day went away. I'm not aware of any! Am I wrong? And I would not even throw Qbuzz out there as a possibility. From my perspective, they can't be trusted, and may not even know what they are doing. They have repeatedly said they would be available in the US, and have not only been unable to meet those projected timeframes, but have also been able to offer no explanation as to why. Now they are saying "in 2018", well, I will believe it when I see it. It is also much more expensive than Tidal, and does not sound as good as Tidal (read here in a recent review) https://www.whathifi.com/qobuz/review And then there is the fact that no service remotely offers the total availability of music selections that Tidal does, at least to my knowledge. And, especially in my case, and that of friends and others, are likely to offer far, far less of the genre's and and vintages of music that we would be listening to on Tidal. Any offers of hope, of another service coming to the rescue, or anything else positive in this space would be greatly appreciated and possibly hold me off from turning to massive drug use, leaving society as a whole, or devoting myself solely to breeding prize winning hedgehogs! JC Sunflower_sutra, Indydan and tapatrick 2 1 Link to comment
Popular Post Brinkman Ship Posted May 17, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 17, 2018 buy music...instead of renting it? i would never allow others to control my content... Hugo9000, vmartell22, Teresa and 4 others 5 2 Link to comment
JezQ Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 It's already ended for me. Constant dropouts that only happen on Tidal and a seemingly couldn't care less attitude from "support" caused me to cancel. It is such a shame as, as you say the sound quality was remarkable and there is no completely satisfactory replacement. Link to comment
diecaster Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 I use Tidal with Roon to audition music I don't have. If I find something that I truly like enough to have in my Roon library, I buy it. If Tidal goes away, I will still be able to Audition music. It just won't be as simple as it is now. I am sure that if Tidal went away, Roon would find a service to replace it. Link to comment
BigAlMc Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 Hi @TubeLover, I share your fear/concern here as about 60% of my 'library' is on Tidal. Side question but if Tidal disappeared overnight is there any way to create a directory of all the albums that had been part of your Tidal collection? Would Roon database for example list these? I'd like to make some sort of backup just in case the worst does happen with Tidal. Cheers, Alan Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE > Sonore OpticalModule (LPS-1.2 & DXP-1A5DSC) > EtherRegen (SR4T & DXP-1A5DSC) > (Sablon 2020 LAN) Innuos PhoenixNet > Muon Streaming System > Grimm Audio MU1 server > (Sablon AES) Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC > PS Audio M1200 monoblocks > Salk Sound Supercharged Songtowers Link to comment
firedog Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 3 hours ago, BigAlMc said: Hi @TubeLover, I share your fear/concern here as about 60% of my 'library' is on Tidal. Side question but if Tidal disappeared overnight is there any way to create a directory of all the albums that had been part of your Tidal collection? Would Roon database for example list these? I'd like to make some sort of backup just in case the worst does happen with Tidal. Cheers, Alan One of us should ask that at the Roon forum.... 4 hours ago, diecaster said: I am sure that if Tidal went away, Roon would find a service to replace it. I'm not at all sure. So far Roon says they haven't succeeding in adding another service, for one or both of the following reasons: a)Roon wants full visual/user integration of the streaming service into it's UI. Roon feels it's UI is a core identity/selling point, and don't want to compromise it. Not every service is willing. b) for (a), Roon needs to be able to download the database of the streaming service on a regular basis (Tidals db is downloaded once a day) and integrate it into it's own db. Not all the services are open to this, even if they are open to (a). So far only Tidal has agreed to both conditions. Maybe if Tidal goes belly up and Roon feel it is imperative for them to have a streaming service partner, they would compromise somewhat on the conditions. Of course then the user experience would suffer somewhat. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
mav52 Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 I own all of my music but I do enjoy streaming and discovering new music. If I like it, I buy it either via a download or some other medium. Yep I will miss Tidal should it tank, but there is nothing I can do about its sorry management or how they cook their books.. The Truth Is Out There Link to comment
mansr Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, firedog said: So far Roon says they haven't succeeding in adding another service, for one or both of the following reasons: a)Roon wants full visual/user integration of the streaming service into it's UI. Roon feels it's UI is a core identity/selling point, and don't want to compromise it. Not every service is willing. b) for (a), Roon needs to be able to download the database of the streaming service on a regular basis (Tidals db is downloaded once a day) and integrate it into it's own db. Not all the services are open to this, even if they are open to (a). There's a third possibility: something central in Roon has been architected around the Tidal client interface, and it's proving hard to adapt it to services structured differently. Cebolla 1 Link to comment
BigAlMc Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 25 minutes ago, firedog said: One of us should ask that at the Roon forum.... Good suggestion Firedog. Done: https://community.roonlabs.com/t/can-i-locate-extract-details-of-my-tidal-favourites-from-roon/43311 Let's see what they say. Cheers, Alan mav52 1 Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE > Sonore OpticalModule (LPS-1.2 & DXP-1A5DSC) > EtherRegen (SR4T & DXP-1A5DSC) > (Sablon 2020 LAN) Innuos PhoenixNet > Muon Streaming System > Grimm Audio MU1 server > (Sablon AES) Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC > PS Audio M1200 monoblocks > Salk Sound Supercharged Songtowers Link to comment
Popular Post PeterG Posted May 17, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 17, 2018 I hope they do go under. The music streaming businesses (Tidal, Spotify, YouTube, Amazon, etc) have used the low cost of capital created by internet euphoria to deliver music at prices which are too low to sustain their businesses, and they have used their market power to drive down the price people are willing to pay for music in general. It's been rational for many of them to do so because they are rewarded with huge stock prices and/or internet traffic that generates profit in other ways, such as Amazon Prime Memberships or Google ads. The problem with all of this is that it sucks the profit out of the music industry in the same way that the internet sucked the profit out of the newspaper industry, bookstores, etc.... So what to do? Make a list of the stuff you're enjoying on Tidal, and then buy the CDs from Amazon or downloads from HD Tracks. Basically, pay an actual market-based price for the music you enjoy PeterSt, Solstice380, vmartell22 and 7 others 8 2 Link to comment
firedog Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 1 hour ago, mansr said: There's a third possibility: something central in Roon has been architected around the Tidal client interface, and it's proving hard to adapt it to services structured differently. I'm just reporting what the guys at Roon say. They say they'd very much like to have another streaming partner. I don't have any reason to doubt their description. Seems to me they are talented enough to work out those problems if they existed. I don't remember all the details, I do remember them specifically saying Spotify wasn't willing to totally integrate into the Roon UI, and at least one other service wouldn't allow Roon to access and download their database. Partnering with Qobuz or Deezer could be a good selling point for them. Deezer has way more users that Tidal, so I'm sure Roon would do it if they could do it under the terms they are looking for. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
jriver Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 No service like Tidal or even Spotify has ever been consistently profitable. I think the reason is that the record labels have never offered enough margin. And that's probably related to their own cost structure. We used to go see record labels in the early days of digital media, and it was pretty cushy in the highrise buildings around Times Square. Lots of limos parked out front. But no digital media service has ever thrived, and that's too bad. Jim Hillegass / JRiver Media Center / jriver.com Link to comment
crenca Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 2 hours ago, firedog said: I'm just reporting what the guys at Roon say. They say they'd very much like to have another streaming partner. I don't have any reason to doubt their description. Seems to me they are talented enough to work out those problems if they existed. I don't remember all the details, I do remember them specifically saying Spotify wasn't willing to totally integrate into the Roon UI, and at least one other service wouldn't allow Roon to access and download their database. Partnering with Qobuz or Deezer could be a good selling point for them. Deezer has way more users that Tidal, so I'm sure Roon would do it if they could do it under the terms they are looking for. I have been thinking about the internet radio functionality Roon added recently. They could provide a similar no thrills front end to any streaming service, but like you say it would not be on their current terms. I think if Tidal shuts down then Roon's hand will be forced and they will have to provide some streaming functionality... Hey MQA, if it is not all $voodoo$, show us the math! Link to comment
PeterG Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 20 minutes ago, jriver said: No service like Tidal or even Spotify has ever been consistently profitable. I think the reason is that the record labels have never offered enough margin. I'm not saying the label guys are the salt of the earth, but you have a funny way of thinking about who's "offering margin". With Spotify's free service, there is zero margin, and that's on Spotify. But even with the paid service, for less per month than we used to pay for a single CD, you can have the world's largest record collection. Once again, Spotify and the others have set these prices, not the labels. True the labels have demanded a healthy percentage of the fee, but it is WAY less than they were getting when the primary distribution was CD and/or vinyl sales. As the Silicon Valley guys happily boast, they have disrupted the music business. bixby 1 Link to comment
Indydan Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 10 hours ago, Brinkman Ship said: buy music...instead of renting it? i would never allow others to control my content... I gather you don't have a Netflix account? Link to comment
mav52 Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 7 minutes ago, PeterG said: I'm not saying the label guys are the salt of the earth, but you have a funny way of thinking about who's "offering margin". With Spotify's free service, there is zero margin, and that's on Spotify. But even with the paid service, for less per month than we used to pay for a single CD, you can have the world's largest record collection. Once again, Spotify and the others have set these prices, not the labels. True the labels have demanded a healthy percentage of the fee, but it is WAY less than they were getting when the primary distribution was CD and/or vinyl sales. As the Silicon Valley guys happily boast, they have disrupted the music business. But if the artist do not get paid, or make any money while making music, why would they even consider staying in the business. After all NO music by artist equals NO labels to support the artist. Then its a repeat of playing old tunes forever that the labels maintain. Teresa 1 The Truth Is Out There Link to comment
BigAlMc Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 Feedback on Roon forum re my question on creating an extract: If Tidal goes the Tidal albums you have would not be playable. To export an xls list of Tidal albums on a pc or Mac. Go to the three lines top left Select albums Click on focus Click on the right arrow of the focus screen Select format Select Tidal Then click outside the white windows to get back to the album view that should now be your Tidal albums, there should be a green Tidal focus button centre top of screen? Select one album via a long click Top left it says one album selected, this is a drop down, change to select all Top of screen there are three vertical dots, click and select export xls Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE > Sonore OpticalModule (LPS-1.2 & DXP-1A5DSC) > EtherRegen (SR4T & DXP-1A5DSC) > (Sablon 2020 LAN) Innuos PhoenixNet > Muon Streaming System > Grimm Audio MU1 server > (Sablon AES) Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC > PS Audio M1200 monoblocks > Salk Sound Supercharged Songtowers Link to comment
Popular Post mansr Posted May 17, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Indydan said: I gather you don't have a Netflix account? I don't mind using a subscription service for video content. Most films and TV shows I'll only watch once anyway. Music is different, at least to me. If I find something I like, I'll want to listen to it many times, and I'd be disappointed if it vanished for whatever reason, so I buy a download (or occasionally a CD). 4est, Hugo9000 and rayooo 3 Link to comment
Indydan Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 I would also be devastated without TIDAL. I have a catalog of 46 million songs at my disposal! I can spend hours a day discovering new music, and often do. Because of Tidal, I have saved a lot of money by not buying as much music. I also don't have to keep adding storage to my library. The other day, I was looking for a version of the instrumental piece "Telstar" I remembered from my youth. I did not remember who performed it. TIDAL allowed me to listen to the at least 50 different versions in the library. I finally found THE version I was looking for (performed by the Vanguards). I could give many examples like this. I use the Naim app with my Naim network player. TIDAL integration is great and seamless within the Naim app. I would even be willing to pay more to keep TIDAL Hifi. I think 19.99$ per month is a steal (for me). bhobba 1 Link to comment
Indydan Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 1 minute ago, mansr said: I don't mind using a subscription service for video content. Most films and TV shows I'll only watch once anyway. Music is different, at least to me. If I find something I like, I'll want to listen to it many times, and I'd be disappointed if it vanished for whatever reason, so I buy a download (or occasionally a CD). Good point. But, in the 6 months I have been using TIDAL, only one album so far has been removed from the library. In that odd case, if I still wanted the album, I would buy it. Link to comment
crenca Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 12 minutes ago, Indydan said: I would even be willing to pay more to keep TIDAL Hifi. I think 19.99$ per month is a steal (for me). That's the thing, for streaming to be viable in the long term, we will probably have to pay at least double this, maybe even triple. So far everyone in the business says that is not possible - too many customers are unwilling they say. In the end, something has to give. Just my 1.5 cents, but I would start thinking of plan B. What if you had to listen to spotify 320 through another front end (besides Roon) or their native apps? What if you had to rely more on your collection? Hey MQA, if it is not all $voodoo$, show us the math! Link to comment
mansr Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 1 minute ago, crenca said: That's the thing, for streaming to be viable in the long term, we will probably have to pay at least double this, maybe even triple. And yet Netflix manages to turn a profit while charging less than $10 a month. wgscott 1 Link to comment
beerandmusic Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 4 hours ago, BigAlMc said: Good suggestion Firedog. Done: https://community.roonlabs.com/t/can-i-locate-extract-details-of-my-tidal-favourites-from-roon/43311 Let's see what they say. Cheers, Alan since you got your answer, share your spreadsheet...would love to see it (wink). Link to comment
Indydan Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, crenca said: That's the thing, for streaming to be viable in the long term, we will probably have to pay at least double this, maybe even triple. So far everyone in the business says that is not possible - too many customers are unwilling they say. In the end, something has to give. Just my 1.5 cents, but I would start thinking of plan B. What if you had to listen to spotify 320 through another front end (besides Roon) or their native apps? What if you had to rely more on your collection? If I had no choice, I would subscribe to Spotify. The Naim app on my Naim streamer has Spotify integrated (but not as user friendly as TIDAL). Link to comment
beerandmusic Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 1 minute ago, mansr said: And yet Netflix manages to turn a profit while charging less than $10 a month. a LOT more movie watchers than music streamers... Indydan 1 Link to comment
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