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How To Cope If Tidal Does Go Under?


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It's already ended for me. Constant dropouts that only happen on Tidal and a seemingly couldn't care less attitude from "support" caused me to cancel. It is such a shame as, as you say the sound quality was remarkable and there is no completely satisfactory replacement.

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I use Tidal with Roon to audition music I don't have. If I find something that I truly like enough to have in my Roon library, I buy it. If Tidal goes away, I will still be able to Audition music. It just won't be as simple as it is now. I am sure that if Tidal went away, Roon would find a service to replace it.

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Hi @TubeLover,

 

I share your fear/concern here as about 60% of my 'library' is on Tidal. 

 

Side question but if Tidal disappeared overnight is there any way to create a directory of all the albums that had been part of your Tidal collection? Would Roon database for example list these? 

 

I'd like to make some sort of backup just in case the worst does happen with Tidal. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE > Sonore OpticalModule (LPS-1.2 & DXP-1A5DSC) > EtherRegen (SR4T & DXP-1A5DSC) > (Sablon 2020 LAN) Innuos PhoenixNet > Muon Streaming System > Grimm Audio MU1 server > (Sablon AES) Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC > PS Audio M1200 monoblocks > Salk Sound Supercharged Songtowers

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3 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

Hi @TubeLover,

 

I share your fear/concern here as about 60% of my 'library' is on Tidal. 

 

Side question but if Tidal disappeared overnight is there any way to create a directory of all the albums that had been part of your Tidal collection? Would Roon database for example list these? 

 

I'd like to make some sort of backup just in case the worst does happen with Tidal. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

 

One of us should ask that at the Roon forum....

 

 

4 hours ago, diecaster said:

 I am sure that if Tidal went away, Roon would find a service to replace it.

I'm not at all sure. So far Roon says they haven't succeeding in adding another service, for one or both of the following reasons:

 

a)Roon wants full visual/user integration of the streaming service into it's UI. Roon feels it's UI is a core identity/selling point, and don't want to compromise it. Not every service is willing. 

b) for (a), Roon needs to be able to download the database of the streaming service on a regular basis (Tidals db is downloaded once a day) and integrate it into it's own db. Not all the services are open to this, even if they are open to (a). 

 

So far only Tidal has agreed to both conditions. Maybe if Tidal goes belly up and Roon feel it is imperative for them to have a streaming service partner, they would compromise somewhat on the conditions. Of course then the user experience would suffer somewhat.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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I own all of my music but I do enjoy streaming and discovering new music. If I like it, I buy it either via a download or some other medium.  Yep I will miss Tidal should it tank, but there is nothing I can do about its sorry management or how they cook their books..

The Truth Is Out There

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3 minutes ago, firedog said:

So far Roon says they haven't succeeding in adding another service, for one or both of the following reasons:

 

a)Roon wants full visual/user integration of the streaming service into it's UI. Roon feels it's UI is a core identity/selling point, and don't want to compromise it. Not every service is willing. 

b) for (a), Roon needs to be able to download the database of the streaming service on a regular basis (Tidals db is downloaded once a day) and integrate it into it's own db. Not all the services are open to this, even if they are open to (a). 

There's a third possibility: something central in Roon has been architected around the Tidal client interface, and it's proving hard to adapt it to services structured differently.

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25 minutes ago, firedog said:

One of us should ask that at the Roon forum....

 

Good suggestion Firedog.

 

Done:

 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/can-i-locate-extract-details-of-my-tidal-favourites-from-roon/43311

 

Let's see what they say.

 

Cheers,

Alan

Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE > Sonore OpticalModule (LPS-1.2 & DXP-1A5DSC) > EtherRegen (SR4T & DXP-1A5DSC) > (Sablon 2020 LAN) Innuos PhoenixNet > Muon Streaming System > Grimm Audio MU1 server > (Sablon AES) Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC > PS Audio M1200 monoblocks > Salk Sound Supercharged Songtowers

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1 hour ago, mansr said:

There's a third possibility: something central in Roon has been architected around the Tidal client interface, and it's proving hard to adapt it to services structured differently.

I'm just reporting what the guys at Roon say. They say they'd very much like to have another streaming partner. I don't have any reason to doubt their description. Seems to me they are talented enough to work out those problems if they existed.

 

I don't remember all the details, I do remember them specifically saying Spotify wasn't willing to totally integrate into the Roon UI, and at least one other service wouldn't allow Roon to access and download their database.

Partnering with Qobuz or Deezer could be a good selling point for them. Deezer has way more users that Tidal, so I'm sure Roon would do it if they could do it under the terms they are looking for.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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No service like Tidal or even Spotify has ever been consistently profitable.  I think the reason is that the record labels have never offered enough margin.  And that's probably related to their own cost structure.  We used to go see record labels in the early days of digital media, and it was pretty cushy in the highrise buildings around Times Square.  Lots of limos parked out front.

 

But no digital media service has ever thrived, and that's too bad.

Jim Hillegass / JRiver Media Center / jriver.com

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2 hours ago, firedog said:

I'm just reporting what the guys at Roon say. They say they'd very much like to have another streaming partner. I don't have any reason to doubt their description. Seems to me they are talented enough to work out those problems if they existed.

 

I don't remember all the details, I do remember them specifically saying Spotify wasn't willing to totally integrate into the Roon UI, and at least one other service wouldn't allow Roon to access and download their database.

Partnering with Qobuz or Deezer could be a good selling point for them. Deezer has way more users that Tidal, so I'm sure Roon would do it if they could do it under the terms they are looking for.

 

 

I have been thinking about the internet radio functionality Roon added recently.  They could provide a similar no thrills front end to any streaming service, but like you say it would not be on their current terms.  I think if Tidal shuts down then Roon's hand will be forced and they will have to provide some streaming functionality...

Hey MQA, if it is not all $voodoo$, show us the math!

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20 minutes ago, jriver said:

No service like Tidal or even Spotify has ever been consistently profitable.  I think the reason is that the record labels have never offered enough margin. 

 

I'm not saying the label guys are the salt of the earth, but you have a funny way of thinking about who's "offering margin".  With Spotify's free service, there is zero margin, and that's on Spotify.  But even with the paid service, for less per month than we used to pay for a single CD, you can have the world's largest record collection.  Once again, Spotify and the others have set these prices, not the labels.  True the labels have demanded a healthy percentage of the fee, but it is WAY less than they were getting when the primary distribution was CD and/or vinyl sales.  As the Silicon Valley guys happily boast, they have disrupted the music business.

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7 minutes ago, PeterG said:

 

I'm not saying the label guys are the salt of the earth, but you have a funny way of thinking about who's "offering margin".  With Spotify's free service, there is zero margin, and that's on Spotify.  But even with the paid service, for less per month than we used to pay for a single CD, you can have the world's largest record collection.  Once again, Spotify and the others have set these prices, not the labels.  True the labels have demanded a healthy percentage of the fee, but it is WAY less than they were getting when the primary distribution was CD and/or vinyl sales.  As the Silicon Valley guys happily boast, they have disrupted the music business.

 

But if the artist do not get paid, or make any money while making music, why would they even consider staying in the business.  After all NO music by artist equals NO labels to support the artist. Then its a repeat of playing old tunes forever that the labels maintain. 

The Truth Is Out There

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Feedback on Roon forum re my question on creating an extract:

 

If Tidal goes the Tidal albums you have would not be playable.
To export an xls list of Tidal albums on a pc or Mac.

Go to the three lines top left
Select albums
Click on focus
Click on the right arrow of the focus screen
Select format
Select Tidal

Then click outside the white windows to get back to the album view that should now be your Tidal albums, there should be a green Tidal focus button centre top of screen?

Select one album via a long click
Top left it says one album selected, this is a drop down, change to select all
Top of screen there are three vertical dots, click and select export xls

Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE > Sonore OpticalModule (LPS-1.2 & DXP-1A5DSC) > EtherRegen (SR4T & DXP-1A5DSC) > (Sablon 2020 LAN) Innuos PhoenixNet > Muon Streaming System > Grimm Audio MU1 server > (Sablon AES) Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC > PS Audio M1200 monoblocks > Salk Sound Supercharged Songtowers

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I would also be devastated without TIDAL. I have a catalog of 46 million songs at my disposal! I can spend hours a day discovering new music, and often do. Because of Tidal, I have saved a lot of money by not buying as much music. I also don't have to keep adding storage to my library. 

 

The other day, I was looking for a version of the instrumental piece "Telstar" I remembered from my youth. I did not remember who performed it. TIDAL allowed me to listen to the at least 50 different versions in the library. I finally found THE version I was looking for (performed by the Vanguards). I could give many examples like this.

 

I use the Naim app with my Naim network player. TIDAL integration is great and seamless within the Naim app. 

 

I would even be willing to pay more to keep TIDAL Hifi. I think 19.99$ per month is a steal (for me). 

 

 

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1 minute ago, mansr said:

I don't mind using a subscription service for video content. Most films and TV shows I'll only watch once anyway. Music is different, at least to me. If I find something I like, I'll want to listen to it many times, and I'd be disappointed if it vanished for whatever reason, so I buy a download (or occasionally a CD).

Good point. But, in the 6 months I have been using TIDAL, only one album so far has been removed from the library. In that odd case, if I still wanted the album, I would buy it. 

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12 minutes ago, Indydan said:

 

I would even be willing to pay more to keep TIDAL Hifi. I think 19.99$ per month is a steal (for me). 

 

 

 

That's the thing, for streaming to be viable in the long term, we will probably have to pay at least double this, maybe even triple.  So far everyone in the business says that is not possible - too many customers are unwilling they say.  In the end, something has to give.  

 

Just my 1.5 cents, but I would start thinking of plan B.  What if you had to listen to spotify 320 through another front end (besides Roon) or their native apps?  What if you had to rely more on your collection?

Hey MQA, if it is not all $voodoo$, show us the math!

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2 minutes ago, crenca said:

 

 

That's the thing, for streaming to be viable in the long term, we will probably have to pay at least double this, maybe even triple.  So far everyone in the business says that is not possible - too many customers are unwilling they say.  In the end, something has to give.  

 

Just my 1.5 cents, but I would start thinking of plan B.  What if you had to listen to spotify 320 through another front end (besides Roon) or their native apps?  What if you had to rely more on your collection?

 

If I had no choice, I would subscribe to Spotify. The Naim app on my Naim streamer has Spotify integrated (but not as user friendly as TIDAL). 

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