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How can this influence SQ?


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Here is the series of posts that really got people mad at me.

 

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=41593.msg373886#msg373886

 

If you can make it to posts # 89 & #90, those are the ones where they really got mad.

 

Point of that exercise was to show even a lousy transformer, in the right hands, can be fudged to look halfway decent. Or, better yet, if you start with the right one, you can really make it sing.

 

Enjoy!

 

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I’ve just spent the evening comparing my two AES interfaces, with various permutations of cables, output voltages and buffer settings (with the wordclock slaved to the DAC in all cases).

OMG, everything makes a difference! This is a nightmare! It's sometimes difficult to decide whether one thing is better than another, but the differences are clearly audible.

 

So, where does this leave me? Well, I prefer my RME (PCI) to my Weiss (firewire). The Weiss sounds more edgy than the RME – kind of impressive at first, but then grating. The RME sounds more rounded and fluid.

 

I have no idea why these interfaces sound so different. Here are some possibilities: the RME has a transformer coupled, galvanically isolated wordclock input, the Weiss doesn’t; the Weiss uses Scientific Conversions AES output transformers, I can’t identify those in the RME; the Weiss runs off its own SMPS, the RME off the mobo; the RME has a much lower latency than the Weiss; the Weiss takes up a little CPU power, the RME virtually none; the RME delivers either 4.5Vpp or 2.1Vpp at its AES outputs, I have no idea about the Weiss...

 

I think I achieved the best sound with the RME set to output 2.1Vpp, with a buffer of 1024 samples, using ‘cheap’ Sommer Mistral AES cable (attached to the AES ground isolators that came with the DAC).

 

But could it be even better?

 

Going forward, I’m willing to play around with the RME and Weiss interfaces (not bothered about voiding warranties), cabling, PC config and/or power supplies. Or indeed even look into other AES interfaces. The only thing I won’t do is open up the DAC.

 

(Ar-t, I know you think AES is a complete ‘kludge’, so perhaps this question isn’t really for you.) Bearing in mind that my DAC only has AES inputs, how might I improve things further? Please let me know if you have any ideas.

 

Cheers,

Mani.

 

PS. Juergen, I know you put forward a suggestion to use the shield between the primary and secondary, but this is in the RX, not the TX, right?

 

Main: SOtM sMS-200 -> Okto dac8PRO -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horns + 2x Rotel RB-1590 amps -> 4 subs

Home Office: SOtM sMS-200 -> MOTU UltraLite-mk5 -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Impulse H2 speakers

Vinyl: Technics SP10 / London (Decca) Reference -> Trafomatic Luna -> RME ADI-2 Pro

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Chris, I observe the same effect when I use my LIO-8 as an asynchronous FireWire to AES converter OR as an AES reclocker...I.e. It outperforms my Lynx AES16 interface....I think this is a result of a better clock and ground loop isolation.

 

To get the best AES interface for his PM2 I would try a ULN-2 and use the PM2 to send word clock to the ULN-2 and have the ULN-2 reclock the AES input from the RME sound card. This would get you ground loop isolation and a better clock.

 

Mac Mini / Pure Music > Firewire & USB > Metric Halo LIO-8 > Hypex NCORE 400 > Geddes Abbey Speakers > Rythmik Servo & Geddes Band Pass Subs // DH Labs Cables, HRS MXR Isolation Rack, PurePower 2000, Elgar 6006B

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Chris, I observe the same effect when I use my LIO-8 as an asynchronous FireWire to AES converter OR as an AES reclocker...I.e. It outperforms my Lynx AES16 interface....I think this is a result of a better clock and ground loop isolation.

 

To get the best AES interface for his PM2 I would try a ULN-2 and use the PM2 to send word clock to the ULN-2 and have the ULN-2 reclock the AES output from the RME sound card. This would get you ground loop isolation and a better clock. You can pick up a used ULN-2 for cheap money. I think the PM2 will sound it's best when the incoming bitstream is clocked using it's own internal word clock so it doesn't surprise me that he preferred his RME card to the Weiss asynchronous FireWire to AES converter.

 

Mac Mini / Pure Music > Firewire & USB > Metric Halo LIO-8 > Hypex NCORE 400 > Geddes Abbey Speakers > Rythmik Servo & Geddes Band Pass Subs // DH Labs Cables, HRS MXR Isolation Rack, PurePower 2000, Elgar 6006B

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"Cleaning up the AES signal from the RME before it hits the PM2 could be beneficial."

 

Hi Chris. Yes, I agree.

 

"To get the best AES interface for his PM2 I would try a ULN-2 and use the PM2 to send word clock to the ULN-2 and have the ULN-2 reclock the AES output from the RME sound card."

 

Hi earflappin. So, this is much the same as Chris has described above with the PM2 and the BADA - here the ULN-2 would act as an AES cleaner, right? I'm tempted to try something like this... although the RME outputs should already be ground free... and more importantly, I'm not sure the ULN-2 works in dual-wire AES mode...

 

"This would get you... a better clock."

 

Not sure about this. How would passing a clock from the PM2 through the ULN-2 and then out to the RME be better than passing it directly from the PM2 to the RME? Are you suggesting that the ULN-2 could act as a clock cleaner also? I'm not sure the PM2 clock needs cleaning, but even if it did, an uncleaned PM2 clock would still be feeding the DAC chips. Incidentally, these chips (UltraAnalog, I believe) are multibit, so are less susceptible to jitter than delta-sigmas.

 

"I think the PM2 will sound it's best when the incoming bitstream is clocked using it's own internal word clock...

 

Yes, I totally agree.

 

"... so it doesn't surprise me that he preferred his RME card to the Weiss asynchronous FireWire to AES converter."

 

The Weiss is also being slaved to the DAC - I'm using the Weiss AFI1, which has wordclock input (EDIT:it's just not transformer coupled, galvanically isolated).

 

I used to think that it was the wordclock signal that was the difficult one to get right. But what I think I've learned from ar-t is that transmitting a KHz wordword is trivial compared to transmittinga a MHz data signal. At RF, reflections become really important, and hence the importance of the I/O transformers.

 

My overall feeling is one of frustration and complete amazement that a professional standard (AES3) could provide such inconsistent results. I mean, how much music are we listening to that has been recorded using sub-optimal AES setups?

 

ADCs/DACs with async firewire or USB inputs built-in really seem much easier to implement more consistently.

 

Mani.

 

Main: SOtM sMS-200 -> Okto dac8PRO -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horns + 2x Rotel RB-1590 amps -> 4 subs

Home Office: SOtM sMS-200 -> MOTU UltraLite-mk5 -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Impulse H2 speakers

Vinyl: Technics SP10 / London (Decca) Reference -> Trafomatic Luna -> RME ADI-2 Pro

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For digital transformers, I personally suggest the best common mode rejection on every side, on the receiver and on the sender side. But keep in mind, this is my recommendation.

 

I have also some RME cards, and on most of them they have their own digital torodial transformers.

 

I know I will be killed by some others, but depending on your length of AES/EBU, and the fact that it seems you have access to Sommer Cable, why don’t you give the SC Galileo a try?

 

If you want to very good AES/EBU cable I would recommend the Siltech Royal Signature 110 Ohm that sounds great. I have used this on some High End shows with great success. Harmonic Technology "Magic One" does also sound good.

 

If you have such high influences and differences, have you checked and measured the common mode voltages of your devises. If you can’t get a sufficient common mode rejecting of your digital interfaces it should be a help, to improve the common mode rejection of you power supplies.

 

Juergen

 

 

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Hi Juergen, I really appreciate all your advice. This was exactly what I was hoping for, so thanks.

 

"For digital transformers, I personally suggest the best common mode rejection on every side, on the receiver and on the sender side."

 

"I have also some RME cards, and on most of them they have their own digital torodial transformers."

 

Do you have any thoughts on the effectiveness of the RME transformers to improve CMR? Have you ever tried to swap them out and replace them with others?

 

The problem I have with cables is that the RME has a 25-pin D-sub connector, which I think would require a custom order. (I bought the Sommer cable pre-made on eBay.) The Weiss is easier in this respect - it has XLR outputs. Maybe it would be worth trying the Weiss with different cables to see if I could reduce the edginess I'm hearing. Although I'm kind of embarrassed to say so, I do have a pair of Kimber KS2120 cables boxed away, which I guess I really should try with the Weiss at least...

 

"If you have such high influences and differences, have you checked and measured the common mode voltages of your devises. If you can’t get a sufficient common mode rejecting of your digital interfaces it should be a help, to improve the common mode rejection of you power supplies."

 

Hmm, never thought of this. I have a pair of large AC balanced mains transformers knocking around. I stopped using them many years ago because they generally just seemed to suppress dynamics. But perhaps I should wipe off the dust and give them a go. I also have a PS Audio P300 to hand. But my DAC takes 200W, which will strain it too much, I think. It might help to power the Weiss with it though...

 

Juergen, thanks again for all your suggestions.

 

Mani.

 

 

 

Main: SOtM sMS-200 -> Okto dac8PRO -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horns + 2x Rotel RB-1590 amps -> 4 subs

Home Office: SOtM sMS-200 -> MOTU UltraLite-mk5 -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Impulse H2 speakers

Vinyl: Technics SP10 / London (Decca) Reference -> Trafomatic Luna -> RME ADI-2 Pro

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The AES/EBU transformers that most of the RME cards uses, do have an high Common Mode Rejection, because the primary and secondary windings are on the opposite side of the ferrite toroid, so just only a part of pF between them.

 

The “weak” point of this transformers is the relatively low inductance so they have a high pass filtering, which goes down to the frame sync signal frequency of the 1 FS bi-phase signal, so you will be able to measure a modulation of the 1/192 FS sidebands of the ¼ FS carrier frequency of the Julian Dunn (Audio Precision) Jitter test. But this belongs only to the Biphase signal and not to clock signal. Also if you are running with 4 FS, than this sideband modulation is only one quarter of the original value.

 

PS: I do have some cable whips for the RME taking the D-sub into regular XLR connectors. Don't you have those? You can order them.

 

Juergen

 

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Thanks again Juergen - really helpful info.

 

So, if I have a separate wordclock signal and am working at 4fs, then the RME transformers should be OK, right? In any event, it doesn't look like I could swap them out for any others for an improvement, does it?

 

I've just received a very detailed email from Keith Johnson (via Dave Peck of Avid, whom I'd like to thank immensely). In it, he states that the digital circuits in my ADC/DAC operate with 5V powering.

 

(I'll post Keith's full response once I've heard back from Dave that it's OK for me to do so.)

 

So, it's settled - I should set the RME AES output voltage to 5V. And this may indeed explain the difference in SQ that I've been hearing - the DAC probably wasn't happy with the lower AES voltage setting.

 

Two things now concern me:

1) Is the RME card capable of generating a 'clean' 5V AES signal? (Is it getting enough clean power from the mobo? Does it have a good enough output stage? Etc.)

2) Do my cables work well at 5V, or should I look around for others that might work better?

 

"I do have some cable whips for the RME taking the D-sub into regular XLR connectors. Don't you have those?"

 

I don't have any. I'll look into ordering some though.

 

Mani.

 

Main: SOtM sMS-200 -> Okto dac8PRO -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horns + 2x Rotel RB-1590 amps -> 4 subs

Home Office: SOtM sMS-200 -> MOTU UltraLite-mk5 -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Impulse H2 speakers

Vinyl: Technics SP10 / London (Decca) Reference -> Trafomatic Luna -> RME ADI-2 Pro

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Chris, as is apparent, I'm no expert. But I don't think the PCI input (slot) voltage is an issue - it's the power that the PCI card can draw and use that might be the issue. (I'm sure Ohms law applies here.)

 

But it's Juergen's first two posts that have got me thinking:

 

"... loss when recharging the isolation material with higher voltage but shorter transition time through the hysteresis at the input side."

 

"... with limited slew rate of digital circuits you have lower bandwidth at higher [voltage?] levels compared to lower levels with higher bandwidth."

 

So, what's it going to take to get a 'clean' 5V AES signal from the RME PCI card to the DAC?

 

On a final note, I mentioned earlier in this thread that anyone using an AES input should be interested in this issue. But I'm not too sure now. I doubt that consumer DACs (such as the BADA) have been designed to work at 5V AES - they should work fine at 2V. No doubt 5V was chosen because of the potentially noisy studio environment in which pro units often have to work.

 

I've done a quick search on Google, but can't find an answer - I wonder what AES voltages the Lynx AES16 and Weiss AFI1 output...

 

[EDIT: Daniel has confirmed that the AFI1 outputs 2V. He believes that it should work with my DAC, conforming, as it does, to the AES3 standard. I don't disagree - yes, it works with my DAC, BUT... sounds different to the RME, when the latter is set to 5V output. As I've mentioned before, the AFI1 sounds very similar to the RME when the latter is set to 2V.]

 

I know tmfidelis, and maybe Matan too, have Model Twos. Have you looked into this AES voltage issue?

 

Mani.

 

Main: SOtM sMS-200 -> Okto dac8PRO -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horns + 2x Rotel RB-1590 amps -> 4 subs

Home Office: SOtM sMS-200 -> MOTU UltraLite-mk5 -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Impulse H2 speakers

Vinyl: Technics SP10 / London (Decca) Reference -> Trafomatic Luna -> RME ADI-2 Pro

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The typical hysteresis of AES/EBU receivers are 75 mV, so if you have above 750 mV load voltage this will work (for normal lengths). But on the other hand the higher and faster the voltage rise and fall, the faster you get through the hysteresis part and the more smoother you can get the treble response.

 

If you do have a 3.3 Voltage on the PCI slot, than it is unlikely, that you will have a 5 Volt load voltage an the AES/EBU line in assumption, that you do have a 1:1 ratio AES/EBU output transformer and no additional voltage charge pumps on the PCI board.

 

Sadly to mention, that newer 3.3 Voltage IC do have lower power consumption and so lower slew rate and so take longer time to pass through the hysteresis (or switching state), but sure they will be always exceptions to the rule. Also they are some rare AES/EBU without an hysteresis at the input, but those devices are sensitive to oscillation problems, when the input is open.

 

Due to the slew rate limit of the ICs, you will be able to measure a lower bandwidth when you use them for the full voltage swing up to the supply voltage. If you use a voltage divider, you can compensate the group delay of the low pass filter and so can have finally a higher bandwidth.

 

With all points I have mentioned here, there are always some exceptions to the rule, so these numbers alone will not indicate anything. So only when knowing the slew rate under load, you can calculate the transition time through switching.

 

But it is important the the rise and the fall time are similar, so that you do have only odd order of the carrier frequency on the line. If you do have some noticeable differences between rise and fall, you will be able to measure some even order harmonics and this will shift the switching point.

 

And also what is very important to have very low group delay of the high filter of the output / input combination, because this determines the jitter of the frame sync signal of the AES/EBU and SPDIF signal.

 

So without having some good high frequency scopes, you can't say anything just looking at the numbers and you can only listen to it and trust that it is withing the “regular” behavior and no exception to the rule.

 

And I do not want to forget to say, that these are my experiences, that do not need to be the same or similar to others. I only joined this specific post, because I have made the similar experience of the last 15 years or more on digital audio, that with a line voltage between 2.5 and 3.5 volt, I get for my ears the best results.

 

I am in the happy situation, that I do not only need to listen, but I can also measure the jitter differences when using different line drivers or different line voltages, but I do make my final judgment by ear, because what I am not able to measure is the different materials in the cables and a smoother cable needs lower line voltages than a brighter cable needs higher line voltages.

 

Good luck

 

Juergen

 

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Juergen, your posts are amazing - every time I re-read one, I find something that I missed on the previous reading!

 

A few comments on what you've written:

 

"... the higher and faster the voltage rise and fall, the faster you get through the hysteresis part and the more smoother you can get the treble response."

 

It's so cool to have a potential theoretical explanation for what I'm hearing.

 

"If you do have a 3.3 Voltage on the PCI slot, than it is unlikely, that you will have a 5 Volt load voltage an the AES/EBU line..."

 

So, if I set the RME to full voltage, then I may be getting 'only' 3.3V out. But this is great, it fits perfectly within your preferred voltage range!

 

"And also what is very important to have very low group delay of the high filter of the output / input combination, because this determines the jitter of the frame sync signal of the AES/EBU and SPDIF signal."

 

It's interesting that you mention 'jitter'. Is this still relevant if the source is being slaved to the DAC via a separate wordclock BNC cable, as is the case with my setup?

 

"... a smoother cable needs lower line voltages than a brighter cable needs higher line voltages."

 

Assuming that I'm going to stick with the higher output voltage from the RME (whether it really is 4.5V as they claim, or 3.3V due to the slot voltage) are there any 'brighter' cables that you could recommend?

 

On a final note, I would love your thoughts on what Keith Johnson (one of the designers of my ADC/DAC) has written about the digital I/O section, but as I said, I'd just like to make sure everyone is OK first before I go ahead.

 

Thanks again Juergen - I can't tell you how chuffed I am that you decided to chime in on this thread.

 

Mani.

 

Main: SOtM sMS-200 -> Okto dac8PRO -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horns + 2x Rotel RB-1590 amps -> 4 subs

Home Office: SOtM sMS-200 -> MOTU UltraLite-mk5 -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Impulse H2 speakers

Vinyl: Technics SP10 / London (Decca) Reference -> Trafomatic Luna -> RME ADI-2 Pro

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I've just gotten the nod to post Keith's email response. Here it is in its entirety:

 

"PMI converters [the lingo for Model Ones and Twos] have transformer coupled AES send or receive connections to pins #2 and #3 of XLR connectors. Pin #1 is grounded to the rear panel. The transformers have shields that connect either to the panel or to active circuit grounds. Matching and terminating networks are on both the primaries and secondaries to reduce cable ringing and jitter. Active digital input circuits have video peak to peak centering so comparators operate from the lowest jitter most predictable part of the received waveform. Both the input and output circuits are balanced to further enhance symmetry and timing - triggering certainty.

 

I'm an experimenter so frequently, I prefer some shield lifting from the #1 pins, usually 150 to 300 ohms and I when I can, open up other equipment to check and see just how good is the transmission and triggering. I'll check common mode ground currents on both audio and digital cables and find that sometimes a ferrite core on the interconnect wire or more drastic changes make improvements for that particular hookup. However things could be better or worse for a different one.

 

Be aware that PMI digital circuits operate with 5 volt powering and that modern consumer electronics are likely to be much lower. Presumably step up or step down transformers are necessary for interfacing but one does not always find them. Then circuits to make industry specification for these conditions might not be very good.

 

Keith"

 

Juergen, any comments?

 

Mani.

 

 

Main: SOtM sMS-200 -> Okto dac8PRO -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horns + 2x Rotel RB-1590 amps -> 4 subs

Home Office: SOtM sMS-200 -> MOTU UltraLite-mk5 -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Impulse H2 speakers

Vinyl: Technics SP10 / London (Decca) Reference -> Trafomatic Luna -> RME ADI-2 Pro

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"I haven't seen many 5v slots lately."

 

Chris, don't the 5V slots have the connector notch at the back, and the 3.3V slots have the notch at the front?

 

In any event, my Gigbyte mobo has the notch at the back, so I'm assuming it's 5V. The RME is a universal card.

 

Don't most mobos have 5V slots nowadays (if indeed they have a PCI slot at all)?

 

Mani.

 

Main: SOtM sMS-200 -> Okto dac8PRO -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horns + 2x Rotel RB-1590 amps -> 4 subs

Home Office: SOtM sMS-200 -> MOTU UltraLite-mk5 -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Impulse H2 speakers

Vinyl: Technics SP10 / London (Decca) Reference -> Trafomatic Luna -> RME ADI-2 Pro

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Hi Mani - This is something I haven't delved into in a while. I remember searching for a motherboard that supported a certain 5v RAID card a few years ago. I had a hard time finding a board that worked.

 

Maybe I was looking in the wrong places. A quick search at NewEgg revealed only one board that specifically said it supported 5v PCI cards. There could be a naming issue as well if newer boards just list PCI without voltage.

 

Hopefully more people will jump in here with better knowledge than myself.

 

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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Sonically, I am not a hard die fan of RME, but beside this, RME is one of the view companies, that do not cheat or lie the data sheets. Most likely anything you read in their specs, will be real and correct data. What I do like with RME is that their drivers are mostly bullet proof and are working, and working only with minimal cpu load.

 

To try out some AES/EBU cable, that have a tendency to have a little bit more highs compared to mid and bass, I would give the Wireworld Gold Startlight a try (more open highs, lots of room) or the Kimber AES/EBU (more focused highs, controlled room). I have had both in the past (over 5 years ago).

 

If the Modell II has Pin 1 connected to ground, than the material of the shield of the AES/EBU cable has also an high impact on the sound. So also for this, a high quality AES/EBU cable is absolutely necessary for you and your multi core sommer cable will not be able to get the best our of your DAC.

 

PS: Also when using a master clock, there are still some sonic impacts of jitter the “original” Bi-Phase signal audible, but at an highly reduced level, but still (at least in my opinion).

 

Juergen

 

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This (PCI slot voltages) isn't something I know much about ... but maybe this link -- http://www.digi.com/pdf/prd_msc_pcitech.pdf -- may help. Just some basics about PCI and PCIe bus.

 

Eloise

 

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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Thanks Eloise. I think I'm a little wiser.

 

Juergen, in terms of AES interfaces, what are you a die-hard fan of? Lynx, Weiss, Marion, or perhaps Merging?

 

Mani.

 

Main: SOtM sMS-200 -> Okto dac8PRO -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horns + 2x Rotel RB-1590 amps -> 4 subs

Home Office: SOtM sMS-200 -> MOTU UltraLite-mk5 -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Impulse H2 speakers

Vinyl: Technics SP10 / London (Decca) Reference -> Trafomatic Luna -> RME ADI-2 Pro

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've just spent a few hours listening to vinyl (Kind of Blue on one-sided 45rpm) through three means:

 

1) phono stage -> pre-amp -> power amp

2) phono stage -> AD -> DA -> pre-amp -> power amp

3) phono stage -> AD -> dual-wire AES -> PC -> RME mixer -> dual-wire AES -> DA -> pre-amp -> power amp

 

I used the following settings:

- PMII set to 24/192

- PMII set to wordclock Master

- AES voltage set to 5V

- RME buffer set to 4096

 

Findings:

 

1) This is one phenomenal album! Sounds great on 45rpm vinyl.

2) In double-blind AB comparisons (with friends and family) and also in extended listening, there is absolutely no audible difference between the three aforementioned means of listening!

 

Conclusions:

1) In 24/192 mode (at least), the PMII is transparent to the analog feed.

2) The RME AES-32 (set to 5V) and my 'cheap' Sommer AES cables provide a transparent connection between the computer and the PMII.

 

I wasn't expecting this at all. I thought I'd be playing around with computer settings, interfaces and AES cables for a while. But it's a major relief that I can just forget about the hardware and focus on optimising playback of 16/44.1 files.

 

Also, I don't feel it's necessary to repeat this for the Weiss AFI1. Whether it's transparent or not, I'm going to stick with the RME.

 

Mani.

 

Main: SOtM sMS-200 -> Okto dac8PRO -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horns + 2x Rotel RB-1590 amps -> 4 subs

Home Office: SOtM sMS-200 -> MOTU UltraLite-mk5 -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Impulse H2 speakers

Vinyl: Technics SP10 / London (Decca) Reference -> Trafomatic Luna -> RME ADI-2 Pro

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It is nice to hear that you are happy with your setup. So now it is time to listen to music and forget about the technical issues.

 

PS: I forget to answer to one of your above mentioned questions: I am a fan of the E-MU 1616M. I know that they have some disadvantages that they do not switch automatically form 1FS to 2FS etc, but they do sound very quite with digital out and also with analog out. On some posts, you can read they do not have a low enough jitter, that is true when I do measure the broadband jitter on the physical signal (eye pattern), but when I do an FFT of the jitter, what came into the audio band, they are very low and I have stated on some other posts, that this is, at least in my experience the most important part of the jitter: What comes down into the audio band.

 

Does anyone have an idea where the E-MU 1616M engineer is now? There is no update for the last 2 ½ year, so it looks like, that this man or group has gone. I was told it was the former Apogee engineer, that has done the work on the E-MU 1616M, but I am not sure. Any information on that?

 

Juergen

 

 

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"So now it is time to listen to music and forget about the technical issues."

 

Yes, indeed.

 

Juergen, thanks for sharing your thoughts in this thread.

 

Sorry, can't help you with your E-MU question. But I was always of the opinion that E-MU stuff was amongst the best value-for-money out there...

 

One thing I didn't mention in my previous post was just how good 16/44.1 sounds! My 16/44.1 recordings from single-sided 45rpm vinyl totally trounce my CD rips of the same material. The former are very close to the vinyl in SQ.

 

Mani.

 

Main: SOtM sMS-200 -> Okto dac8PRO -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horns + 2x Rotel RB-1590 amps -> 4 subs

Home Office: SOtM sMS-200 -> MOTU UltraLite-mk5 -> 6x Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Impulse H2 speakers

Vinyl: Technics SP10 / London (Decca) Reference -> Trafomatic Luna -> RME ADI-2 Pro

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"Does anyone have an idea where the E-MU 1616M engineer is now? There is no update for the last 2 ½ year, so it looks like, that this man or group has gone. I was told it was the former Apogee engineer, that has done the work on the E-MU 1616M, but I am not sure. Any information on that?"

 

Not sure if this is what you mean ... but E-MU have recently released a PCIe version of the 1616M and 1212M (they use the same PCIe card).

 

Eloise

 

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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@Eloise: I am aware, that they have finished the PCIe, but just finished what they already begun. But the drivers are really old (only Vista, happily working under Win 7) and I would be more than happy so see some Firewire Interface for the 1616M (besides 2 PCI cards, I do have also two PCMCIA (Cardbus) Cards, for portable use with older IBM T41 notebooks).

 

@Mani: Sure the build quality is not so high, so some units brake over the years, for this reason I have in total 4 Mastering Grad E-MUs, but for example the high level in and output have lower jitter and noise and THD, than my Audio Precision.

 

Juergen

 

 

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