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2 hours of Esoteric D-05 vs Weiss DAC202


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My overall experience with MBL amps is that they are powerful and accurate, but since I didn't compare with other amps in the same sitting it'd be presumptuous of me to give this particular setup a grading.

 

I'm not sure I'm hearing that same mid emphasis from the Utopia 3 line as you describe — I suggest further auditions if you get the chance, and to try different speaker positions. It may well be the room playing tricks on you. However if you're used to full range floorstanders the Diablo's 40-44Hz rolloff may give the impression of mid boost. But then again that would be true for most standmounts.

 

For the record, I currently use a Pass INT-150 with my Diablo's. It has fantastic control and bass depth, and its treble is mercilessly revealing any grain and strain from the DAC. But as my initial post reveals, I'm a fan of resolution and very precise treble, so I'm intrigued to see if the somewhat indirect but exquisitely liquid sound from the Weiss in my audition would be remedied with the Pass amp as opposed to the MBL setup. A home loan of one or more DAC's is on the wishlist for some time later this summer.

 

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"I was in the Mbl room at RMAF 2009 and heard a Slick Rick played back on an incredible system. I think some of the audiophiles headed for the doors or even the parking lot, but it was a blast :~)"

 

I love spending time with the Mbl guys at shows for this very reason. The ability of their system to really rock out on ANY kind of music is really impressive, and certainly debunks the aforementioned idea that Hi Fi is only needed/applicable to Opera and Symphonic works.

 

OT: if you like Shelby Lynne, be sure to sample her album: Identity Crisis as well, I am loving Tears, Lies, and Alibis.

 

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

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Well I haven't listened to the whole line : only the Maestro and the Grande (EM) ones. Each time with a full stack from Goldmund.

I'm comparing these listenings to my experience of Focal speakers (btw, I still own a pair of old 815, excellent value), but not living with them, I might just be wrong (measurements might just tell so).

 

Anyway, I am in the process of buying an int202 interface to connect to my dac. Fortunately I have found a dealer kind enough to lend me one. I'll post comments here, if I have something valuable to say.

 

Since we are in the mood for exchanging good advices, classical vocal lovers have to listen to the Capilla Flamenca ensemble. Especially their Ars Nova recordings (starting with Zodiac).

 

Elp

 

 

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akiro said:If the source material is sonically poor there's no reason to make it even worse by using a bad DAC.

 

Thanks for your advice akiro, I will definitely give the new Weiss DAC a chance.

 

Knowing the Minerva to be one of the very best outside of the real Pro range like DAD Denmark, Pyramix and similar, I will certainly consider it.

 

Regarding RBCD again, I have heard 16/44.1 in some of the most expensive combinations available from Pro to High End consumer.

 

All I can say is that the richer harmonically, the more complex and dynamic the music ,the more obvious its shortcomings become.

 

With minimal processing it can sound good enough not to hurt my ears, but always aenemic and lifeless, with something vital missing.

 

And in a pro system a simple switch between 16/44.1 and the HI RES master is so obvious,as to leave me in no doubt whatsoever, of how sad it is that it was even introduced in the first place.

 

We have basically lost almost a generation of music listeners who have been subjected to nothing but RBCD and think it sounds as good as possible.

 

A generation who now needs to recalibrate their ears and brains to how acoustic musical instruments and the human voice,really sound when recorded analogue or in HI RES digital.

 

Regarding the sentence I quoted from you, I agree with you in a way.

 

But I have to add as a logical consequence of my argumentation here, that the real risk of making a bad recording sound even worse is actually when you play it via a truly revealing system .

 

Luckily for me with my tastes in music I don´t often have to make many compromises.

During the most horrible years of the RBCD era I listened mostly to LPs.

 

And now most of what I like I can either, still hear live ,most perfect of all, or listen to on LPs,SACDs and now also more and more often, as HI RES downloads.

 

I have only one 16/44.1 ripped item in my music system, a work that is not yet available in any HI RES format.

But musically so interesting that I occasionally compromise, and listen to Ann Sophie Mutter playing Sofia Gubaidolina´s Violin Concerto upsampled to 64 bit via the Pure music player.

 

It is still rather dull and lifeless compared to HI RES.But at least some of the worst digititis is filtered out of harms way, that way.

 

I stopped buying RBCDs at the introduction of SACD more than ten years ago.

And a lot of the Classical standard repertoire is now available in excellent modern HI RES recordings on SACD.

 

I haven´t bought a single RBCD in more than 10 years and I have absolutely no intention ever to buy one again.

 

And all for the love of Music.

 

All the best and happy listening

 

Chrille

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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>>Hi ukiro - I wish you could give the Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC a listen but I'm not sure it's available in Sweden because of its non-ROHS compliance.

 

Chris, have you listened to both Berkeley and DAC202 side by side?

 

Actually, of interest to me also is the DAC202 Vs the DAC2.

 

How the Naim DAC stacks up against the above would also be very interesting. I have a feeling they are all similarly good.

 

Macbook Pro/MacMini/dCS Debussy/Cambridge 650BD[br]Vitus Audio SS-010/Living Voice OBX-R2 Speakers/Ultrasone Edition 8 phones[br]Airport Express/Meridian AD88[br]

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agentsmith said:

Chris, have you listened to both Berkeley and DAC202 side by side?

 

I have heard neither the Berkley nor the DAC 202 yet.

 

I have only heard the Minerva from Weiss and it is undoubtedly very good.

 

But I am also keen to hear how Chris here compares also these two Weiss products in his review.

 

From what I have read the main difference between the two Weiss DACs is in the analogue domain,not necessarily in the digital?

 

Lets face the facts, the Minerva was just a much cheaper Pro DAC in a new box!

Price added 2000 dollars!

 

My absolute digital references in the Pro range, are either DAD DXD or Meidtner or Grimm for DSD.

 

But a lot is happening in the market-place right now and it wouldn´t surprise me if we soon will have products at very decent prices comparing very favourably to some seriously overpriced HIGH END offerings.

 

Mytek for example, seems to have a new DAC capable of anything up to 192 in PCM and also DSD at around 1500 dollars!

 

How will that DAC and lots of other contenders just around the corner, sound in a shootout with Weiss´s latest?

 

In the HIGH END business there have always been companies more interested in making unsuspecting customers part with their money than offering real value for money.

 

There is also a lot of "Snake Oil" involved in this business.

 

And many so called High End products are simply just fancy looking.

 

More Cosmetics added than true High End components.

 

To separate the Wheat from the Chaff so to say, you need to be both wary and know your reference points well.

 

It is all too easy to be temporarily seduced by sales-talk and just oh wow it sounds different!

 

Different from what?

 

Different from A and B or closer to the real thing ie live Acoustic music?

 

You know the thing HI FI was once all about!

 

 

 

 

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Whilst the electronics may have a considerable development cost the most expensive single components of a high end product are the case and power transformer. In small batches a beautiful machined box will cost thousands, and a linear power supply hundreds. It is likley, for example, that the difference in price between the Weiss Minerva and the DAC2, which is electronically identical, is entirely higher case cost x standard margin. IME and IMO of course.

 

Frank[br]Mac mini, Amarra, Pure vinyl, Resolution Cantata, Metric Halo LIO-8, dCs P8i,DeVialet 800, Goldmund Mim 20/36+/22/29.4, Epilog 1&2[br]Reference Turntable Ortofon Jubilee pickup

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A case change costing thousands? The Minerva case is nice but it cannot be costing thousands, can it?

 

I owned a DAC2 and it is very good despite its utilitarian looking case. I always wonder how the Minerva can cost double that of the DAC2.

 

To Daniel's credit, he has always been upfront about the two machines being the same internally. Another slicker vendor would have shrouded it in a fog of mystery.

 

What I like about Weiss, despite it being a bit pricey for its simplicity, is its no no BS approach to things.

 

Macbook Pro/MacMini/dCS Debussy/Cambridge 650BD[br]Vitus Audio SS-010/Living Voice OBX-R2 Speakers/Ultrasone Edition 8 phones[br]Airport Express/Meridian AD88[br]

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Review far away Chris?

 

Aurender N100H> USB(Darkside Cable) > Mcintosh D1100 Digital Preamp > Darkside Cable balanced interconnect  >  Mcintosh MC302 Amp  > SpectralMH-770  Speaker Cables  >  Martin Logan Prodigys

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ukiro wrote: For the record, I currently use a Pass INT-150 with my Diablo's. It has fantastic control and bass depth, and its treble is mercilessly revealing any grain and strain from the DAC.

 

Hi there,

I also use an INT-150 and happen to have a D05 connected to it, no Diablo speakers but Vivid Audio B1s.

Completely agree with your analysis of the Int-150 and can tell you that it goes very well with the D05.

Note: it takes some time (many dozens of hours) to have the Esoteric give its best (how old was the one you listened to?). There are also 2 DSPs: either wide sound stage or narower sound stage, that has an impact on the 3D feeling.

Finally I use not upsampling or DSD, just the original sample rate.

 

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Very interesting comment on the DSP settings; I did not fiddle with these and I'm a little surprised that the dealer didn't notify me of these things. The demo unit has been played in store for at least 6 months, so it should be run in by now, and they should have learned how to make it perform well in a customer demo… (That peculiar omission aside, their service is fantastic.)

 

I'll try to get another listening session soon-ish, time permitting. I'll make sure to read up more on its settings as well.

 

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