The Computer Audiophile Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 What sample rates did you try to sync the Zodiac to? Does the BLA only send 44.1 or 48k and count on the receiving component to multiply that to reach the right rates? Just a thought. dCS clocks send 44.1 and 48k and require the receiving component to use clock multiplication to reach higher rates. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
arnolfini Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 I understand that the Lynx card is a recommended way to interface a computer and some dacs and also that an external clock can be beneficial. However Antelope are well known to make accurate clock and the one in the Zodiac seems very good. They claim that they can get great sound quality from the optical of a mac (which sounds bad from my benchamrk dac1), which would mean that their jitter rejection scheme is excellent. And since they offer USB input, why still use the Lynx card with the external clock? Is it only for experimenting and comparing? Just trying to understand... Link to comment
hifitubes Posted July 1, 2010 Author Share Posted July 1, 2010 Valid question, and the answer hinges on my setup. But also, Antelope themselves claim performance is raised (of course) when you add a better external clock. I use a digital RIAA system on Windows, like some are doing with their Metric Halo units here, except I have the Lynx, Mytek ADC, and Zodiac+ DAC all linked to master word clock because I record and monitor vinyl playback at the same time (at 192kHz). I guess I could just sync the Lynx to the Mytek, but I like to listen in realtime and play with small amount of digital noise reduction (sometimes) or rumble filters. Hope that answers your question, and thanks for asking. DIGITAL: Windows 7 x64 JRMC19 >Adnaco S3B fiber over USB (battery power)> Auralic Vega > Tortuga LDR custom LPSU > Zu Union Cubes + Deep Hemp Sub ANALOG: PTP Audio Solid 9 > Audiomods Series V > Audio Technica Art-7 MC > Allnic H1201 > Tortuga LDR > Zu Union Cubes + Deep Hemp Sub ACCESSORIES: PlatterSpeed, BlackCat cables, Antipodes Cables, Huffman Cables, Feickert Protracter, OMA Graphite mat, JRemote Link to comment
arnolfini Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 Many thanks for explaining what your system and your goals are; everything makes very much sense now. For your purpose, it is a pity that the Zodiac not does offer world clock out like the Weiss Dac202 does. I guess it is quite obvious that Antelope does not want the Zodiac unit to compete with their own clocks... I am interested in this unit only for high res computer playback only with speakers/headphones so will see if I can manage to arrange a home demo and if it is a significant step up to the Benchmark dac1... All the best. Link to comment
ted_b Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 I am gonna let it run for awhile before any sonic comments, but I will say the build seems nice, the DAC started right up, etc. HOWEVER, has anyone got it running greater than 24/96 on a MAC? Hog mode on Pure Music only shows up to 96k (which makes sense with native drivers, etc...but noticed Windows users are having no problems getting it to 24/192). If 24/96 is the MAC limit (without anything written custom) then they need to state that! I have a growing list of greater-than-96k in my library (I run a Hirez forum for gosh sakes ) and currently it somehow downsamples it to 44.1k and plays it. Thought it might be too good to be true. EDIT: Nevermind....operator error. Then made sure UH1 was set, then restarted PM and all is well (all rez's show up). Playing Somethin Else in 24/192 now. "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
ted_b Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 Well, after a day or two more of break in I listened again last night fairly intently. The DAC is very detailed and resolving but I can’t shake the sense that it is too sterile or atonal at this point. I am thinking that further break in is a distinct possibility, but also that the USB implementation might not be as good as firewire for two reasons: *First, the USB cable looks to be a cheap stock cable (and uses a mini b at the DAC end so any of my better USB cables are not candidates without an adapter). I’ve emailed with Lee at CryoCables and he has offered to send me a decent adapter he says does little damage, but also has produced the Polestar USB in mini b version..but it’s $230 for a cable I’m not sure I’ll use long term (i.e if I don't keep this DAC) *Second, the USB implementation is not an asynch one (like Gordon’s, etc) and although I assume Antelope knows a thing or two about timing and jitter I am wondering if the USB signal path is the best. So… I did a little experiment last night. I used the Weiss DAC2 to convert firewire to AES. Then used my nice budget-but-valued DH Labs D-100 AES digital cable to input to the Antelope DAC. The sound is way more organic, better tonality in the all-important midrange, and reminds me of the Metric Halo (detailed but organic). This experiment, of course, does bring up the variable of conversion…..I’ve no idea what level of fw-to-AES I’m doing and what signature, if any, is being imparted by the Weiss (which has been noted many times as having a sweet albeit possibly exaggerated midrange)…I assume a very high level that is commensurate with the something like the Weiss INT202 converter (and more than a Hiface or something like that). To me, if this is the solution it is more complex and likely as expensive or more so than the Metric Halo solution. but this is all conjecture at this point...all of 48 hrs into my eval. "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
hifitubes Posted August 31, 2010 Author Share Posted August 31, 2010 Marcel stated that the Zodiac has Trinity level de-jittering built in. Not sure if that is implemented for all inputs? I would think so. I'm running AES and will have to A/B, the AES, AES clocked externally, and the USB. I'm usually too busy enjoying the music in my limited free time to do such testing. DIGITAL: Windows 7 x64 JRMC19 >Adnaco S3B fiber over USB (battery power)> Auralic Vega > Tortuga LDR custom LPSU > Zu Union Cubes + Deep Hemp Sub ANALOG: PTP Audio Solid 9 > Audiomods Series V > Audio Technica Art-7 MC > Allnic H1201 > Tortuga LDR > Zu Union Cubes + Deep Hemp Sub ACCESSORIES: PlatterSpeed, BlackCat cables, Antipodes Cables, Huffman Cables, Feickert Protracter, OMA Graphite mat, JRemote Link to comment
Shibboleth Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 It's something I'd really like to hear myself, but I was talking to the guy at Audiocom (Mark, I think) a few weeks ago and apparently he's heard them back to back. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but the gist of what he said was that the Antelope was a little more resolute, and made the Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 sound a teensy bit warm, but that there wasn't much in it. He really liked both, but kept the Antelope! Upsetting computers since 1978. Link to comment
ted_b Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 The USB and AES (converted from Weiss fw) are both quite musical and full now, yet with a clear dynamic soundstage that rivals DACs much more expensive than this. Very impressed so far. However, I am having a weird anomaly (redundant?) that neither Rob at ChannelD (Pure Music) nor Antelope can help with yet. In PM (not iTunes nor Amarra) my Zodiac plus goes into standby, then relocks then clicks after every end-of-track (except gapless albums). it is a process that takes between 2 and 6 seconds, depending on sample rate (the higher rates take longer). With my Weiss (or Metric Halo) I normally only experience this with sample rate changes, but with PM (hog mode) and Zodiac Plus it happens to all normal albums/tracks. Note: I've yet to test all PM setup variations, including normal-non-hog mode Furthermore, in Amarra, although no relocking occurs, also no auto-sample rate change occurs. Amarra defaults to itunes and stays at the former Audio Midi setting. In both cases these weirdisms do not occur with my Weiss DAC2. Stay tuned. "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
hifitubes Posted September 2, 2010 Author Share Posted September 2, 2010 The only glitch I have encountered, and it occurred with two other DACs, is that WASAPI playback in Foobar or JRMC can result in loss of sync/garbled playback. BUT at no time does my DAC actually seem to lose sync; it's a playback glitch and everything remains hard clocked to the OCX. DS or ASIO don't have this issue, and my other DACs didn't use the Lynx, so it could be how software is dealing with silence as a data shortfall; tricking the DAC? I think I have narrowed this down to the remove silence feature found in these apps, as it is a repeatable bug. Reported to Lynx and JRMC. Apparently, WASAPI is pretty tough on hardware and Lynx is going to update firmware or drivers soon. by tough I mean the hardware has to deal with everything whereas ASIO is buffer rich. I think I posted here the DPC screenshots of how much lower system latency is with WASAPI vs. ASIO for me, mainly when streaming over LAN. Anyway, I digress. Glad you are enjoying yourself. DIGITAL: Windows 7 x64 JRMC19 >Adnaco S3B fiber over USB (battery power)> Auralic Vega > Tortuga LDR custom LPSU > Zu Union Cubes + Deep Hemp Sub ANALOG: PTP Audio Solid 9 > Audiomods Series V > Audio Technica Art-7 MC > Allnic H1201 > Tortuga LDR > Zu Union Cubes + Deep Hemp Sub ACCESSORIES: PlatterSpeed, BlackCat cables, Antipodes Cables, Huffman Cables, Feickert Protracter, OMA Graphite mat, JRemote Link to comment
tigzstudio Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 Well, I went ahead and put my order in for a Zodiac+ I will update when it arrives with my initial build quality impressions, etc. system: Core i7 (4.0ghz oc\'ed), 12gb ram, SSD, 3 Terabytes sata 6.0, blu-ray burner, apple cinema 30 & Wacom Cintiq 21ux.[br]audio chain: Computer -> firewire -> Saffire Pro 24 dsp -> Wireworld Coax -> Audio-gd Reference 5 DF -> Norse Audio up-occ XLR -> Violectric HPA v181/Antelope Audio Zodiac+ -> KRK Rokit rp-8 g2 / Audeze LCD-2 Link to comment
hifitubes Posted September 4, 2010 Author Share Posted September 4, 2010 The DAC is rather light and I use the supplied rubber stickers attached to the feet to prevent the DAC from sliding around. I have only tried my DX1000 phones, but drives my AKG 601 w/ no problem. It is clocking to the OCX with no problem and works in either manual sample rate change w/ OCX, or when software is set to not resample and Lynx is set to auto-change the rate. There are currently some issues if use DSP to remove silence (leading - trailing) with WASAPI only and this is ost definitely a WASAPI/software issue. JRIVER and lynx mY be able to sort it out as they have been informed of my recent tests w/ repeatAble issue. I use AES to feed my Zodiac+ from an TYS16-E, and have to float the grounds on the external switching AC adapters for both DAC and mini-ITX PC. The results in a very audible lessening of the noise floor. At some point I would like to run these off linear or battery supplies. I still plan on comparing to some other good dacs near the end of the month. In the meantime, will listen with and without OCX and compare asynchronous USB to aes. Finally, I finally got time to check the balanced outs with multimeterusing a 1kHz sine wave. At full gain I had to change from 4.8vAC on left to match 4.99vAC on right. Then quickly tested at -23db and seems there is minor dif. Will test more later. DIGITAL: Windows 7 x64 JRMC19 >Adnaco S3B fiber over USB (battery power)> Auralic Vega > Tortuga LDR custom LPSU > Zu Union Cubes + Deep Hemp Sub ANALOG: PTP Audio Solid 9 > Audiomods Series V > Audio Technica Art-7 MC > Allnic H1201 > Tortuga LDR > Zu Union Cubes + Deep Hemp Sub ACCESSORIES: PlatterSpeed, BlackCat cables, Antipodes Cables, Huffman Cables, Feickert Protracter, OMA Graphite mat, JRemote Link to comment
Audio_ELF Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Quick question ... What's a TYS16-e? Google wasn't my friend :-( Eloise Eloise --- ...in my opinion / experience... While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing. And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism. keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out. Link to comment
ted_b Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 really meant "AES16-E" as in Lynx. "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
hifitubes Posted September 6, 2010 Author Share Posted September 6, 2010 Sorry for the typo; that's what I get for using my iPhone. DIGITAL: Windows 7 x64 JRMC19 >Adnaco S3B fiber over USB (battery power)> Auralic Vega > Tortuga LDR custom LPSU > Zu Union Cubes + Deep Hemp Sub ANALOG: PTP Audio Solid 9 > Audiomods Series V > Audio Technica Art-7 MC > Allnic H1201 > Tortuga LDR > Zu Union Cubes + Deep Hemp Sub ACCESSORIES: PlatterSpeed, BlackCat cables, Antipodes Cables, Huffman Cables, Feickert Protracter, OMA Graphite mat, JRemote Link to comment
Eric5676 Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 Quite eager to see more from folks who have any of these Zodiac units. I know the Plus came out first. It, possibly the Gold, the Wyred 4 Sound DAC2, the PerfectWave DAC, and a few others are on my short list. I'm currently using a Cambridge 840c which is pretty good but if I'm able to sell it for the price I want then it puts me in play. How do you all think that thing hangs with any of the above pieces I named? Anyone with any direct comparisons? Link to comment
hifitubes Posted September 8, 2010 Author Share Posted September 8, 2010 Using balanced outputs and finally found time to check them with a multimeter. I first tested it a -0db output with a 0dbfs 1kHz sine wave and measured 4.80vAC & 4.99vAC. I adjusted them both to 4.99vAC. Then some results with various Zodiac+ volume settings: "-20" - .420/.402 "-10" - 1.350/1.376 "-5" - 1.780/1.798 "-3" - 2.398/2.429 "-0" - 4.99/4.99 For the record, I don't own a very expensive or fancy multimeter. DIGITAL: Windows 7 x64 JRMC19 >Adnaco S3B fiber over USB (battery power)> Auralic Vega > Tortuga LDR custom LPSU > Zu Union Cubes + Deep Hemp Sub ANALOG: PTP Audio Solid 9 > Audiomods Series V > Audio Technica Art-7 MC > Allnic H1201 > Tortuga LDR > Zu Union Cubes + Deep Hemp Sub ACCESSORIES: PlatterSpeed, BlackCat cables, Antipodes Cables, Huffman Cables, Feickert Protracter, OMA Graphite mat, JRemote Link to comment
Eric5676 Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 Not sure about something: Do the Zodiac units use external power supplies? A number of folks have made mention of how it "only" weights 4.4 lbs. and such. Link to comment
ted_b Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 showing up in the measurements? My XLR outs seem dead on (testing with mono signals) to my ear. "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
ted_b Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 Lee at Locus Design Group was kind enough to send me a USB mini B adapter, which allowed my Wireworld Ultraviolet 5(squared) USB cable to be used with the Zodiac Plus. I also purchased an inexpensive goldx cable (mini b, no adapter needed). In both cases the dynamics and soundstage suffered vs the supplied red-ended unknown mfg USB cable from Antelope. I tested this over a few different songs, over about an hours worth of a/b/c'ing. Go figure. "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
hifitubes Posted September 8, 2010 Author Share Posted September 8, 2010 I use about -10db as I like to let my preamp actually amplify and not attenuate, and I don't notice anything. I'll probably experiment further, but those measurements are very close (someone can do the math), and likely imperceptible. DIGITAL: Windows 7 x64 JRMC19 >Adnaco S3B fiber over USB (battery power)> Auralic Vega > Tortuga LDR custom LPSU > Zu Union Cubes + Deep Hemp Sub ANALOG: PTP Audio Solid 9 > Audiomods Series V > Audio Technica Art-7 MC > Allnic H1201 > Tortuga LDR > Zu Union Cubes + Deep Hemp Sub ACCESSORIES: PlatterSpeed, BlackCat cables, Antipodes Cables, Huffman Cables, Feickert Protracter, OMA Graphite mat, JRemote Link to comment
hifitubes Posted September 8, 2010 Author Share Posted September 8, 2010 Yes, switched-mode power supply. No pic of actual unit. It has a threaded barrel for secure screw-on connection after insertion. DIGITAL: Windows 7 x64 JRMC19 >Adnaco S3B fiber over USB (battery power)> Auralic Vega > Tortuga LDR custom LPSU > Zu Union Cubes + Deep Hemp Sub ANALOG: PTP Audio Solid 9 > Audiomods Series V > Audio Technica Art-7 MC > Allnic H1201 > Tortuga LDR > Zu Union Cubes + Deep Hemp Sub ACCESSORIES: PlatterSpeed, BlackCat cables, Antipodes Cables, Huffman Cables, Feickert Protracter, OMA Graphite mat, JRemote Link to comment
tigzstudio Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 Here is a link to a picture of the power supply unit. http://www.review33.com/avforum/index.php?topic=92100801174114&page=1 scroll down the page a bit. system: Core i7 (4.0ghz oc\'ed), 12gb ram, SSD, 3 Terabytes sata 6.0, blu-ray burner, apple cinema 30 & Wacom Cintiq 21ux.[br]audio chain: Computer -> firewire -> Saffire Pro 24 dsp -> Wireworld Coax -> Audio-gd Reference 5 DF -> Norse Audio up-occ XLR -> Violectric HPA v181/Antelope Audio Zodiac+ -> KRK Rokit rp-8 g2 / Audeze LCD-2 Link to comment
CryoParts Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 Attached, enjoy! Peace, Lee Locus Design Group[br]www.locus-design.com[br]www.cryo-parts.com[br]www.cryo-freeze.com Link to comment
Eric5676 Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 For whoever might be interested, I contacted Marcel James via email, the US Antelope Audio rep, and he says they're still shooting to have the Golds out by December. Link to comment
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