AppleTV as Music Server?

[rockrabbit]

 

Hi Drew - i might be able to draw something up. What exactly are you looking for? Maybe I'm a little dense this afternoon :-|

 

 

Apple TV to an external NAS

 

how?

 

I thought one had to crack open the Apple TV to get a bigger drive in...

 

I see more and more NAS or outboard drive enclosures offering something to the effect of... "iTunes server"

 

I see this from netgear.. http://www.netgear.com/Products/Storage/ReadyNASDuo/RND2150.aspx

(clearly I would be installing larger drives at some point)

 

makes me think.. and please correct me...

 

I can dump all my music onto the above NAS... then somehow get the Apple TV to see the NAS and now I streams the files instead of storing the files.... right?

 

 

 

[david1997]

If I could add another question into the mix, is it possible to link the NAS, MacMini and AppleTV using an ethernet interface (Homeplugs) rather than WiFi?

 

[Ashley James]

Apple is good with wi fi and there are rarely the problems that seem to beset Windows. We've got it all over the factory and my home and it's rock solid.

 

Andy Palmer at Marlcroft computers can put a bug Hard drive an Apple TVs, or any Apple computer for that matter. He's in the UK though.

 

Marlcroft Computers

Andrew Palmer

work 01706 221135

mobile 07515356671

work [email protected]

288 Newchurch Rd

Rawtenstall

Rossendale

BB4 7SN

 

Ash

 

 

 

 

[machinehead]

Interesting idea, could you plug the NAS that Drew mentions directly into the ATV via CAT 5 or does it have to go through the router first?

 

Jeff

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

It is possible to do this but not a plug n play concept.

 

[chop158]

I just stumbled across this site today -- all wonderful information. So here's my question:

 

I am getting ready to finally re-assemble a home theater in my house. It will be a "mid-level" system (B&W 602/601/CC6 speakers, Integra or Rotel receiver (haven't picked the exact model yet), AudioQuest cabling, etc.). I am trying to figure out an affordable way to implement a music server, and wonder whether the AppleTV could be the ticket. I already own a newer iMac and an Airport Extreme. Could the following be a workable setup:

 

External hard drive >>> Airport Extreme ~~~ wireless ~~~ AppleTV >>> HDMI cable >>> Receiver

 

Controls would be iMac >>> iTunes >>> iPod Touch

 

A few questions:

 

1. Would this work?

 

2. Any reason to use optical vs. HDMI for the connection from AppleTV to the receiver?

 

3. Any reason to use an external DAC instead of the DAC in the receiver?

 

4. I'm intrigued at the idea of high-quality downloads (e.g., Linn, HDTracks) of 24/96 and better material. Can the AppleTV output this resolution? The information I've found seems to indicate that it is limited to 16/44.1, but it seems less than authoritative. If this is true, is there another similarly-priced music server that will output the higher resolution material?

 

Thanks in advance for your thoughts. This site is great.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

 

[chriskav73]

I've been perusing this site for the last week and have found some very useful information, such as how to properly convert 96/24 WMA lossless to WAV. However, my question is the same as Dave's. Does anyone have any definitive answer on whether the audio output from the AppleTV HDMI's port is limited to 16/44.1 like it is through its analog output? I have a few hi-res albums on my AppleTV that are 96/24 WAV and they play fine, but I wanted to know if the AppleTV was down-sampling & truncating them before sending them to my receiver.

 

Thanks,

Chris

 

[Ashley James]

Chris

 

I use an Apple TV and I'm pretty sure that because it's a wireless device it only does 16/44, just like Airport Express . Sample rate conversion is done before transmission. The source computer will be sending 16/44 to it.

 

However we've done a lot of listening tests and we've read quite a bit about this on the web and our findings and the general consensus of opinion is that you won't hear the difference. This is because the absolute maximum dynamic range of the recordings is unlikely to exceed 45 dB and 24/96 has 120. You can throw a lot away before it matters. This is not the case during the recording process. Make the comparisons yourself by listening to the optical output from the computer and comparing it with the same output on the ATV.

 

I hope this helps

 

Ashley

 

[HarryHWombat]

There is a great deal of data out there but maybe not so much information I have read elsewhere (and this is presented as "having read elsewhere" and not as fact) that a Mac must be set for 44/24 output through the Audio Midi utility to ensure bit-perfect data. This seems a little weird but there you are. Also I "read elsewhere" that AppleTV is 44/16 so there may or may not be an issue there.

 

Over at a hi-fi manufacturers forum, most people seem to have best results using a fully-fledged computer such as a Mac rather than a constrained computer such as the AppleTV. Maybe to do with the 44/24 issue but more possibly because everyone is on a learning curve with incomplete information.

 

I have a number of AppleTVs and would now not be without them. It is not yet perfect and there is much not there that one would want. I do think, though, that is probably the most under-appreciated product that Apple produce and the price is, IMHO, a steal. In reading other peoples comments on the AppleTV I often think of "What have the Roman's ever done for us" from Monty Python.

 

"What has the AppleTV ever done for us?"

"Apart from the intuitive and beautiful user interface"

"OK, I'll give you that one, But what else ... "

"Well, you've got the HD video streaming, access to trailers, top-quality music reproduction, TV and movie rental ... "

"OK but ... "

"And of course all your photographs available and the Genius function and ..."

 

[Ashley James]

Harry you're on the nail!

You'd be amazed at the number of enthusiasts who come to us with their families and fall in love with the Apple TV. The kids and wives can use it and it shows photos, so suddenly instead of suffering a husbands enthusiasm for something they can't use and often don't like, they have just what they want. Most buy one!

 

Ash

 

[chriskav73]

Ashley,

 

Thanks for the info. I did not know that wireless transmission of music from iTunes would be limited to 16/44. However, I do not think I was succint in describing my setup. I have all of my iTunes songs synchronized to my AppleTV, so when I play music on the AppleTV, the data is not being streamed from my computer but rather read off the internal AppleTV HDD. Since this removes the wireless streaming limit you mention, I'm curious if AppleTV downsamples and truncates my 96/24 WAV files that are read off its HDD for transmission to a receiver via HDMI. I verified that the hi-res songs I transferred from my computer to AppleTV are the same size, so it is now a matter of what the AppleTV does with them.

 

Harry,

 

I did not realize you thought my post was bashing the AppleTV in any way. I was merely trying to determine the full capabilities of the product. I have owned my AppleTV since the day it came out and have been very happy with each software upgrade that Apple provides. I do not look at what it can't do as a reason for bashing it, but simply whether it can output hi-res music like my Macs can.

 

Chris

 

[chriskav73]

Watchnerd,

 

I know you posted your question a long time ago, but having upgraded the internal HDD myself, I can explain why 250GB is the limit. The type of drive that Apple uses in the AppleTV is a 2.5" PATA (or IDE) HDD. The largest capacity 2.5" PATA drive that is available by any HDD manufacturer is 250GB. If some company makes a larger one, I will definitely buy it, format it, and try to upgrade. I do not know if there is an internal AppleTV limitation via the disk controller or drivers, but we do know it currently works with the largest one currently available. And given that SATA seems to be the future protocol for HDD, I doubt we'll see any increases in 2.5" PATA drives (haven't seen one in over a year) to test out.

 

Chris

 

[HarryHWombat]

I did not realize you thought my post was bashing the AppleTV in any way. I was merely trying to determine the full capabilities of the product. I have owned my AppleTV since the day it came out and have been very happy with each software upgrade that Apple provides. I do not look at what it can't do as a reason for bashing it, but simply whether it can output hi-res music like my Macs can.

 

Apologies - my reply was not directed at you at all - sorry for any (inadvertent) offence. I just started writing about AppleTV and got carried away by my enthusiasm for what I believe to be a great product. Like you, I am also interested in a definitive 44/16 answer - looked around myself but couldn't find one.

 

 

[Ashley James]

The Apple TV, as I understand it, sync's with your computer at 16/44, so syncing or streaming, it's still 16/44, but although it will get me into trouble with audiophiles to say it, I'm pretty sure you won't here the difference.

 

It is possible to fit a 500 Gig HD into an ATV, but I don't know where you find them. Andy at Marlcroft Computers is the man who does upgrades and he'd either supply or tell you where to get it from if he wasn't on holiday till the end of next week.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Ash

 

[chriskav73]

Ash,

 

Thanks for the pointer to Marlcroft Computers. I did a Google search and found such a company in the UK. Is this the one you are referring to? I'm not sure if they found a way to cram a 3.5" drive into the case to get 500GB, but I am definitely interested in finding a larger HDD for the ATV. Given that 2.5" SATA drives are currently manufactured up to 500GB, I feel that it is just a lack of financial desire by the manufacturers to support the same high density platters in their PATA drives now that SATA is the mainstream protocol in modern computers.

 

As far as the 16/44 synchronization between iTunes and ATV, I'll rip out the drive in my ATV this weekend and do a direct connect (I have a PATA-to-FW400 dongle) and verify the files I synchronized to the ATV. I had done this back when I had replaced the old drive, but not with the new higher res files I got from Music Tracks. This will allow me to verify bit for bit if the files are the same 96/24 files in iTunes or if they were indeed downsampled & truncated. Though the understanding of what actually gets synchronized to the ATV will still not tell us what ATV does to hi-res files upon transmission via HDMI, it will at least let us know what happens between iTunes and ATV. One less mystery in the chain. I'll post back over the weekend.

 

 

Harry,

 

No worries. I just didn't want to have anyone feel like I was entering this forum to complain, as this website appears to be very positive and informative, without personal attacks (like many other technical forums).

 

Chris

 

[Ashley James]

He is in the UK, or not right now because his girlfriend has made him take her and their little girl on holiday and stop fiddling with computers! He'll be back next week and no one is more helpful, he's a really nice bloke.

 

I'd found a 250 gig for mine and had trouble swapping it in, so he offered to do it and fit 500 Gig if I needed it, so email him and I'm sure he'll tell you where to find.

 

What happens is that iTunes will play up to 24/96 via the optical digital output on the computer but if it is streaming either by ethernet or wi fi to ATVs or AEs, it sends 16/44. Presumably to avoid drop outs that might otherwise occur. Although mine happily streams video, if not quite as reliably music only.

 

Ash

 

[machinehead]

I doubt if it would have a problem streaming Hi Res audio files, as mine streams 1080i movies just fine without a hint of stutter.

 

Chris, can you do a quick test and output a 24/96 file from an Apple TV into the Berkley DAC and see what bit rate it locks on at?

 

Thanks,

 

Jeff

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Jeff - Consider it done. The Alpha DAC reads 44.1 when I stream 24/96 to the Apple TV.

 

[chriskav73]

Chris,

 

Can you play a 96/24 file that is on the ATV internal HDD (i.e. synchronized from iTunes) and see what it outputs to the DAC? What I wouldn't give for a good set of test equipment or DAC like yours.

 

It's been mentioned in a few posts in this thread that streaming to ATV is limited to 16/44, but I am curious if there is a 96/24 file already on ATV, if it will get output at such or 16/44. Just trying to figure out the limitations.

 

Many thanks,

Chris

 

[HarryHWombat]

It's been mentioned in a few posts in this thread that streaming to ATV is limited to 16/44, but I am curious if there is a 96/24 file already on ATV, if it will get output at such or 16/44. Just trying to figure out the limitations.

 

Likewise - would be extremely interested in this result. Not surprised about the result on the streaming side, though. If it is true that bit-perfect is only achieved through 20/44 on OS X the AppleTV working at 16/44could be a serious limitation. If it is not too much trouble could you see if a 16/44 file, when the audio midi on the host is set to 20/44 on AppleTV synchornisation time ,plays at 16/44 or 20/44?

 

[machinehead]

Hi Chris, I know your super busy supporting the best audio website, if you get a chance could you try this out, load a 24/96 or higher res. file onto the A-TV hard drive and see what bit rate the Berkley locks onto?

 

Thanks,

 

Jeff

 

[Tog]

The ATV is a wonderful thing but dreadfully neglected by Apple. Hopefully this will change in the future but I can't help but think the Macbook is a better solution in the long term wired or wireless.

 

yours, watching the snow, tog

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Jeff - I will certainly try this out. My Alpha DAC is on its way back from Berkeley Audio Design after one of our cats knocked a speaker over on it and caused a little damage. As soon as I get it back I'll load some high resolution tracks on it and give it a shot.

 

[Ashley James]

I'm besotted with mine! And I love the way keep sending me updates to improve its functionality. It's cheap and it's very clever and the picture is superb.

 

This is interesting conjecture too:

 

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/02/04/analyst_urges_apple_to_add_cable_box_support_to_apple_tv.html

 

 

[Tog]

Don't get me wrong I think it is a really great piece of kit but it could be fantastic if Apple took it more seriously.

 

yours, impatiently tog