USB flash drives vs SSDs and HDDs

[nbpf]

As USB flash drives with capacities of up to 1TB start to become available, I would like to know if there are any advantages (or disadvantages) in using flash drives instead of solid state and hard disk drives for music replay from locally attached USB storage.  

[mansr]

If you mean stick form factor devices, I'd expect them to be slower and less reliable than a proper SSD. HDDs are obviously much cheaper per storage capacity and probably still the most reliable.

[nbpf]

8 minutes ago, mansr said:

If you mean stick form factor devices, I'd expect them to be slower and less reliable than a proper SSD. HDDs are obviously much cheaper per storage capacity and probably still the most reliable.

I was more thinking of advantages and disadvantages in terms of sound quality, but I have failed to make this clear in my post! 

 

The differences in price are, as you point out, quite obvious. Reliability is not really an issue, these are non meant to be long term storage solutions! I have come across a few posts, in these forums, in which it was argued that SSDs can have a negative impact on sound quality as compared to HDDs.

 

I was wandering whether flash drives could have advantages (or perhaps disadvantages) over SSDs and HDDs from this perspective!    

[Doak]

IM(experienced)O "stick drives" are at the bottom rung of USB drive options in terms of sound quality.  Also, as a general rule, stay away from drives that rely on USB for their power.

The components of a "proper" USB HD are 1) the drive itself, 2) the case in which it resides along with the resident necessary electronic interface, 3) the power supply (12V) for the drive/electronics, and 4) the USB cable which connects the drive case to the computer/server. Every link in this chain has and does make a difference. I've tried combos of a few to several of each of the 4 elements noted above - do the math, if you'd like. 
While much of this is about system matching there does appear to be some things that can carry their strengths from one system to another. 

[mansr]

If you're using a USB DAC, make sure it is connected to a different USB root port than the storage device (how to determine this depends on your OS). Regarding sound quality differences related to the storage medium itself, there are so many conflicting reports and theories that any effect has to be quite small. If there was a profound difference, people shouldn't have such a hard time agreeing on the best choices. That said, paying some attention to power is always a good idea, bus powered devices being more likely to affect and be affected by the rest of the system.

[nbpf]

1 minute ago, mansr said:

... Regarding sound quality differences related to the storage medium itself, there are so many conflicting reports and theories that any effect has to be quite small. If there was a profound difference, people shouldn't have such a hard time agreeing on the best choices. ...

Good point!

[nbpf]

30 minutes ago, Doak said:

... While much of this is about system matching there does appear to be some things that can carry their strengths from one system to another. 

... and these are?

[davide256]

I found the sound from SDXC class 10 media to better the sound from SSD in a Synology DS214play NAS but in that case I was able to attach the SDXC storage via USB3 and the NAS was limited to SATA II speeds for SSD.  When I re-purposed the SSD drives into a PC that supported SATA III, the SSD drives sounded better  than the SDXC storage. Improvements were basically in transient detail/ background ambiance, the cues that make a performance sound live.

So tend to believe that read access speed is a critical factor and that most USB devices are going to be slow compared to SDXC class 10/ SATA III read speeds.

[Doak]

2 hours ago, nbpf said:

... and these are?

At this point I'd include the PS and the drive itself.

Decent to high quality linear PS.

For drive, I really like what I'm getting from the hefty server grade 3.5" WD Black. 

[nbpf]

27 minutes ago, Doak said:

At this point I'd include the PS and the drive itself.

Decent to high quality linear PS.

For drive, I really like what I'm getting from the hefty server grade 3.5" WD Black. 

Thanks, an hefty drive indeed! 

[zoom25]

Hard drives, especially portable 2.5" drives, like from Western Digital that are 5400 RPM are what I use for music storage. They stay silent, cool, and have been reliable for me. I have multiple of them and a few over a decade old. None failed on me.

As far as sound goes, it can vary on the device/preference. With my BDP-1, I do hear subtle differences between the portable hard drives, external 3.5 WD hard drives and their various power supplies, and flash drives along with the use of AQ Jitterbugs for these combinations. Ethernet yet again sounds different from these. I would try each method out if possible. Things haven't always sounded the way I expected them to or which I thought would come ahead in SQ.

 

[sandyk]

11 hours ago, mansr said:

If you mean stick form factor devices, I'd expect them to be slower and less reliable than a proper SSD. HDDs are obviously much cheaper per storage capacity and probably still the most reliable.

Agreed.

However, they are convenient to take with you, BUT , are easily corrupted, often requiring checking for reported errors which sometimes requires reformatting and loss of existing data.

[mansr]

17 minutes ago, sandyk said:

Agreed.

However, they are convenient to take with you, BUT , are easily corrupted, often requiring checking for reported errors which sometimes requires reformatting and loss of existing data.

Yes, they are great for portability but should never be used as primary storage. USB sticks are the modern day floppy disks.

[rickca]

24 minutes ago, sandyk said:

are easily corrupted

Yes, you should not use thumb drives for long term storage due to reliability.  One day, for no apparent reason, you just can't read them.  I'd be much more confident with a portable SSD like the Samsung T5.

[nbpf]

@rickca, @mansr, @sandyk, @zoom25: thanks for the feedback! As I mentioned, reliability is not an issue in this context: these drives are not meant to be used for long term storage. What matters is sound quality and if flash memory has no obvious advantages over SSDs and HDDs from this point of view, then the better. HDDs are so much cheaper!

[mansr]

10 minutes ago, nbpf said:

@rickca, @mansr, @sandyk, @zoom25: thanks for the feedback! As I mentioned, reliability is not an issue in this context: these drives are not meant to be used for long term storage. What matters is sound quality and if flash memory has no obvious advantages over SSDs and HDDs from this point of view, then the better. HDDs are so much cheaper!

HDDs obviously cause some mechanical noise. Depending on the model and how close you are to the drive, this can be distracting.

[sandyk]

14 minutes ago, nbpf said:

@rickca, @mansr, @sandyk, @zoom25: thanks for the feedback! As I mentioned, reliability is not an issue in this context: these drives are not meant to be used for long term storage. What matters is sound quality and if flash memory has no obvious advantages over SSDs and HDDs from this point of view, then the better. HDDs are so much cheaper!

 nbpf

FWIW,  USB memory also have internal 3.3Volt regulators .

 Yes, there is a possibility of them sounding a little better, (although not surprisingly, mansr will never agree about this) as they plug directly into a USB port without the need for an external USB cable. Many members spend almost obscene amounts of cash buying upmarket USB cables, as they find that generic USB cables usually give lacklustre results.

 

Alex

 

[nbpf]

1 hour ago, mansr said:

HDDs obviously cause some mechanical noise. Depending on the model and how close you are to the drive, this can be distracting.

Good point!

[nbpf]

1 hour ago, sandyk said:

 nbpf

FWIW,  USB memory also have internal 3.3Volt regulators .

 Yes, there is a possibility of them sounding a little better, (although not surprisingly, mansr will never agree about this) as they plug directly into a USB port without the need for an external USB cable. Many members spend almost obscene amounts of cash buying upmarket USB cables, as they find that generic USB cables usually give lacklustre results.

 

Alex

 

I see, thanks. In this case a silent HDD (or a SSD) in an enclosure that can be powered by an external power supply is perhaps the most flexible solution. 

[Doak]

 

 

Mercury Elite Pro USB w/o outer case (it rings)

WD Black RE4-GP WD2003FYPS 2TB

Noise is slight and inaudible from 3ft or so.

[nbpf]

and ... it seems to have a very good balance too!

[Doak]

21 minutes ago, nbpf said:

and ... it seems to have a very good balance too!

A third brass supporting cone is hiding behind the rear one pictured in a tripod arrangement. 

[mansr]

25 minutes ago, nbpf said:

and ... it seems to have a very good balance too!

The gyroscopic effect keeps it upright.

[Doak]

13 minutes ago, mansr said:

The gyroscopic effect keeps it upright.

[sandyk]

3 hours ago, mansr said:

The gyroscopic effect keeps it upright.

 

 That would be a handy effect to have after a night out with the boys !