Tidal in trouble?

[bambadoo]

https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/did-tidal-falsify-streams-to-bulk-up-kanye-west-and-beyonce-numbers/

 

http://routenote.com/blog/tidal-faked-stream-numbers-for-kanye-west-and-beyonce-says-investigation/

 

https://www.whathifi.com/news/has-tidal-been-deliberately-cooking-books

 

I have the whole report. Quite extensive work has been done.. 

 

 

 

[One and a half]

There’s a reason why rats leave ships.....

[Musicophile]

Wow that's bad. 

. 

 

 

[Patrick Cleasby]

It's pretty stinky. Watch out for database theft guys!

[4est]

And here I was thinking it was because Lake Street Dive's new album is only available in MQA!

[rodrigaj]

In the MusicBusiness Worldwide link is says:

 

"To set the scene, DN interviews a series of TIDAL subscribers, presenting them with logs of their individual play-counts of both Beyoncé’s Lemonade and Kanye West’s The Life Of Pablo."

 

Is there a way that subscribers can see their play-counts?

 

It would be interesting to know if I streamed Kayne's album eight times a day. 

[Tsarnik]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-44066139

[PorkChop]

"The numbers suggested every single Tidal subscriber streamed Kanye's record eight times a day for 10 days straight."

 

Cook the books simply by fudging the streaming numbers - nice one Tidal!

[james45974]

What counts as a stream?  Is it the full album, a song, 30 second samples, what?

[Booster MPS]

I do want Tidal to make it but this is concerning.  That hard drive if authentic is problematic for many reasons........

[Musicophile]

On 5/12/2018 at 10:49 PM, james45974 said:

What counts as a stream?  Is it the full album, a song, 30 second samples, what?

Here's Spotify's answer. I presume this is industry standard, after 30 sec of playback.

 

https://community.spotify.com/t5/Accounts/When-and-how-does-Spotify-count-songs-as-quot-listened-to-quot/m-p/952243/highlight/true#M120586

[bambadoo]

TONO (TONO is the Norwegian collection society/performing rights organisation) is filing a lawsuit against Tidal because of the accusations. 

https://www.digi.no/artikler/tono-anmelder-tidal-til-okokrim-avsloringen-har-sendt-sjokkbolger-inn-i-musikkbransjen/437384

 

Sorry - the text is in Norwegian. 

 

 

This may be the first of many from several countries......

[mordante]

I don't have a Tidal account. Nor of any other streaming service. But I would be sad if Tidal went belly up. In the future I'd might like a Tidal account. For now I just stream my ripped CDs.

[james45974]

7 hours ago, Musicophile said:

Here's Spotify's answer. I presume this is industry standard, after 30 sec of playback.

 

https://community.spotify.com/t5/Accounts/When-and-how-does-Spotify-count-songs-as-quot-listened-to-quot/m-p/952243/highlight/true#M120586

Thanks very much for the link.  Doesn't make the Tidal numbers as extremely suspect as you might first think, only partially suspect!

 

[dmormerod]

More Tidal woes if true.....

 

https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/16/17361646/tidal-late-royalty-payments

 

[TubeLover]

I really don't care at all about inflated streaming numbers. I don't necessarily think it is right, but it ultimately means nothing and no one is hurt by it. However, this back payment royalty issue is a real concern.

 

If Tidal really does go under, easily 50% of my music enjoyment goes with it. That would be crushing, as there is no alternative.

 

JC

[DaQi]

Tubelover - there is an alternative which is what we all used to do and that is to buy and own our music instead of renting it. 

[Blake]

4 hours ago, DaQi said:

Tubelover - there is an alternative which is what we all used to do and that is to buy and own our music instead of renting it. 

 

I pay $20 per month to Tidal to "rent" my music and I can listen to thousands of songs and artists on demand, at home or on  the go. 

 

Alternatively I buy a CD for $20, or a vinyl for $30, listen to it (or more accurately, a few songs on it) about 4 or 5 times, then the thrill is gone and I have more clutter in my music room.  I choose rent. 

 

Unless you are the type to listen to the same albums again and again it makes no sense to me to buy. Also, your heirs won't care about inheriting your music collection.  It will just be "crap" to them that they have to get rid of.

 

 

 

 

 

[FredericV]

H'mmm ....

https://www.engadget.com/2018/05/18/tidal-cybersecurity-investigation/
 

[bmoura]

On 5/18/2018 at 12:58 PM, FredericV said:

H'mmm ....

https://www.engadget.com/2018/05/18/tidal-cybersecurity-investigation/
 

 

Very interesting indeed.

 

[DaQi]

Blake - There is certainly a rational justification for the renting of music and obviously for many it works. My concern is that if I rent, the music I choose to listen to is at the whim of Tidal and them staying in business. Tubelover was concerned about what happens if Tidal goes out of business. I do tend to listen and re-listen to music I enjoy over and over again through the years so not being able to listen to something does concern me and that is why I prefer to buy it as it is then on me to preserve my copy of it. Furthermore, I listen to a lot of more obscure music that may or more likely may not be available on Tidal (I have not verified this as I do not subscribe to Tidal).

 

Having recently cleaned out a dead relative's music collection you are right that a lot of it was crap but there were some gems there. I listen to music with my kids and listen to a lot of music that they are interested in. In fact a lot of the music I discover these days is through my kids and I am not just talking about pop. I hope that I am building an appreciation for music in them. Frankly, I don't care if they like the same music as I do so the legacy is not in them enjoying my library but rather in them appreciating music and supporting musicians themselves. 

 

And that gets me to probably the biggest concern with streaming which is in supporting musicians. When I purchase music, often directly from a musician, I believe I am doing more to support that musician than from streaming through a model like Tidal. I see Tidal as a scheme where the rich get richer and the people at the edge are edged out further. It is those musicians at the edge that I find most often interest me so I want to support them more directly. 

[TubeLover]

On 5/17/2018 at 1:14 PM, DaQi said:

Tubelover - there is an alternative which is what we all used to do and that is to buy and own our music instead of renting it. 

I buy at least 6-8 cd's a month based on what I hear on Tidal. In other circumstances, when listening to Tidal, I might choose to hear the entire catalog from, say, Van Morrison, or all the live releases from someone else. No one owns everything and all they might want to hear.  I have over 3,500 cd's that I've bought and paid for, not a single copy. 

 

To replace the total music I listen to on Tidal would cost me a fortune. Apparently you are wealthy enough to do so, to make such pronouncements. I suspect few of the rest of us are. 

 

JC

[DaQi]

17 hours ago, TubeLover said:

I buy at least 6-8 cd's a month based on what I hear on Tidal. In other circumstances, when listening to Tidal, I might choose to hear the entire catalog from, say, Van Morrison, or all the live releases from someone else. No one owns everything and all they might want to hear.  I have over 3,500 cd's that I've bought and paid for, not a single copy. 

 

To replace the total music I listen to on Tidal would cost me a fortune. Apparently you are wealthy enough to do so, to make such pronouncements. I suspect few of the rest of us are. 

 

JC

So, what you are saying is that you do still buy CDs and use Tidal to discover music and for more casual listening. Sorry for making an assumption that you only use Tidal and no longer purchase music. I, in fact, purchase less CDs than you do with about 3-4 per month. I just don't see the point, for myself, in a paid subscription service for casual listening or discovering music to buy as I have plenty of selection, for me, within the approximately 2,000 CDs I own and rarely have a shortage of ideas for new music to purchase and listen to. 

 

My concern, and what I incorrectly assumed you were doing, is to stop purchasing music and only renting. I have heard of situations (some even discussed on this site) where people get rid of their purchased music and go only with a rental model. This would be a concern for the reasons I have outlined. 

[ShawnC]

2 hours ago, DaQi said:

 I have heard of situations (some even discussed on this site) where people get rid of their purchased music and go only with a rental model. This would be a concern for the reasons I have outlined. 

If you're a millennial this is exactly what their doing, and that's our future.  They/Some could care less to own anything like CDs.  Many that I work with or know (friends/family/neighbors) don't even care about the whole the dics, just the main tracks that are released as singles, so streaming makes all the sense in the world to them. 

[bambadoo]

We will see how it goes. According to dn.no the Norwegian National Authority for Investigation and Prosecution of Economic and Environmental Crime (Økokrim), has investigated Tidal since this Autumn. 

They are investigating it as "data fraud". 

 

https://www.dn.no/musikk/okokrim-bekrefter-etterforsker-databedrageri-i-tidal/2-1-515215

 

Sorry it is in Norwegian.