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ISO Regen performance Improvement Cheap!


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On 5/29/2018 at 8:48 PM, JohnSwenson said:

My current ideas as to what matters for a DC cable is inductance and dielectric absorption. The inductance is primarily determined by the geometry of the wires, and dielectric absorption is determined by the insulation on the wires.

 

 

Really? In an idealized DC situation, an inductor is a simple resistor and hopefully your cable has low resistance. Whatever inductance you actually desire can be placed at either the PSU output or device input. Right? I mean the Regen in this situation has sufficient onboard capacitance that there aren't large current surges or is there something about the ISO Regen engineering that makes current draw widely variable? But I'm assuming that you have sufficient inductors on the board that the cable should be irrelevent i.e. X + 0.0000001X remains roughly X. That's a design issue then, no?

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5 hours ago, Quadman said:

Normal 2 channel recordings tho everything is behind the plane of the speakers.

 

 That is NOT normal, which is why I asked the question !

Normally the sound will at least come from in line with, or a little in front of the speakers.

A few good test recordings are Queen-Another One Bites the Dust, The Eagles-Hotel California(24/96 preferably) , and The track  Ascent, Zarathustra from  Time Warp-Erich Kunzel, which with a good system can fill most of the listening area in FRONT of the speakers. The very best recordings with plenty of ambience can see the sound extend both behind the speakers, and even as far as a little behind the listening position in a few. 

They can also have width exceeding the distance between the speakers in a well set up listening area.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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40 minutes ago, sandyk said:

That is NOT normal, which is why I asked the question !

Normally the sound will at least come from in line with, or a little in front of the speakers.

That depends almost entirely on the room and speaker placement.

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42 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

 That is NOT normal, which is why I asked the question !

Normally the sound will at least come from in line with, or a little in front of the speakers.

A few good test recordings are Queen-Another One Bites the Dust, The Eagles-Hotel California(24/96 preferably) , and The track  Ascent, Zarathustra from  Time Warp-Erich Kunzel, which with a good system can fill most of the listening area in FRONT of the speakers. The very best recordings with plenty of ambience can see the sound extend both behind the speakers, and even as far as a little behind the listening position in a few. 

They can also have width exceeding the distance between the speakers in a well set up listening area.

 

Who cares as far as one loves the sound.

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6 hours ago, Quadman said:

Normal 2 channel recordings tho everything is behind the plane of the speakers.

 

 

Yes. Unless the recording specifically has used phase manipulation to create an 'artificial' effect, then the soundstage elements remain resolutely behind the plane of the speakers - at all times, any images float completely free of the speakers, to as far back as the acoustic data places them.

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2 hours ago, jabbr said:

 

Really? In an idealized DC situation, an inductor is a simple resistor and hopefully your cable has low resistance. Whatever inductance you actually desire can be placed at either the PSU output or device input. Right? I mean the Regen in this situation has sufficient onboard capacitance that there aren't large current surges or is there something about the ISO Regen engineering that makes current draw widely variable? But I'm assuming that you have sufficient inductors on the board that the cable should be irrelevent i.e. X + 0.0000001X remains roughly X. That's a design issue then, no?

The idealised DC is just that , ideal. There’s the usual suspects of higher AC taking a ride on the DC and the inductance takes a stick to these somewhat. Just how much is a design issue :)

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46 minutes ago, One and a half said:

The idealised DC is just that , ideal. There’s the usual suspects of higher AC taking a ride on the DC and the inductance takes a stick to these somewhat. Just how much is a design issue :)

 

The designer of both  the power supply and device should be able to determine exactly what the ideal inductance is and create that. No need for speculation. Not just ideal, we are dealing with very specific devices here.

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On 6/7/2018 at 2:15 PM, michaeltay5871 said:

I tried the Wireworld starlight flat cat 8 cable that is not twisted at all but triple shielded for each pair of silver clad ofc 23 awg conductors.  There is a leap in clarity with all the associated benefits and without any detriment to overall sound.  Maybe the shielding and material of conductors are crucial.

 

So far there's only one of us who tried Wireworld instead of Supra as well as the CAT 8 Patchkabel 2000Mhz 1 metre from Germany. Did you use passive PoE adapters with your CAT 8 cable or was that terminated with DC power connectors manually?

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Did anyone make anything with supra CAT 8 bulk wires that are terminated with 4-pin / 20-pin / 24-pin ATX connectors? Just wondering if that were equally beneficial when compared to be the ones that are terminated with 5.5mm DC power connectors etc.

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On 6/8/2018 at 2:48 AM, Quadman said:

The whole stage starts 3 feet behind my speakers

 

On 6/8/2018 at 1:51 PM, sandyk said:

Does the soundstage also extend to the listening position, and even behind it with suitable material  ?

 

 

11 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

 Normally the sound will at least come from in line with, or a little in front of the speakers.

 

 

10 hours ago, mansr said:

That depends almost entirely on the room and speaker placement.

 

My understanding is that soundstaging, where the image is on the soundstage, is determined by the recording. The quality and qualities of the image is determined by the room/speaker interaction. Eg Omnidirectional speakers in a highly reflective room produces huge images locked between the speakers. The more common directional speakers produce more focused  realistically sized images, provided room early reflections are absorbed.

 

My experience is that images are placed mostly at the level of the speakers and extend backwards (depth). That said it can occur that the vocal in some recordings push out a bit forward of the speakers. This might be in recordings that have some midrange "presence" boost in the Eq.  Barry Diament explained that sometimes the latter occurs due to direct and reflected sound combining in an untreated recording booth causing a dip in midrange and the engineer compensating by (unnecessarily) boosting same. When played back it sounds brighter and edgier than it should. He didn't mention pushing the image forwards but I guess that may be a feasible illusion/consequence. It may also explain why some gear sounds more aggressive than others, say if they are emphasizing the mids that seem to be jumping out at you rather than drawing you in.

 

Yeh I have recordings where sound circles around the room. A neat illusion done with tricky phase manipulations in the recording so I am told IIRC

Sound Minds Mind Sound

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

Yeh I have recordings where sound circles around the room. A neat illusion done with tricky phase manipulations in the recording so I am told IIRC

Yeah, you can't do that with plain microphones.

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11 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

Yes. Unless the recording specifically has used phase manipulation to create an 'artificial' effect, then the soundstage elements remain resolutely behind the plane of the speakers - at all times, any images float completely free of the speakers, to as far back as the acoustic data places them.

 Many DIY Audio members criticised the Douglas Self very low distortion amplifier designs because the image was fixed mainly between the speakers, and rarely extended either side of them.

 The OP is using LT3045 low noise voltage regulators in series . Unless they are preceded by typical larger value filter capacitors they will increase the apparent HF detail due to the low value and type of capacitors used at their input and output. ( Tantalum and ceramic usually), causing much larger soundstages and added HF detail ,which users of Spotify etc. seem to like because it normally lacks much soundstage and is apparently a little HF deficient.

That's why some members use a couple in series, despite the noise level already being VERY low.

They are manipulating phase information by doing this .

 

 See also  https://www.qacoustics.co.uk/blog/2016/04/08/how-to-set-up-your-hi-fi-speakers/

 They also show how to position the speakers for more realistic Home Cinema.

 

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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4 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 Many DIY Audio members criticised the Douglas Self very low distortion amplifier designs because the image was fixed mainly between the speakers, and rarely extended either side of them.

 The OP is using LT3045 low noise voltage regulators in series . Unless they are preceded by typical larger value filter capacitors they will increase the apparent HF detail due to the low value and type of capacitors used at their input and output. ( Tantalum and ceramic usually), causing much larger soundstages and added HF detail ,which users of Spotify etc. seem to like because it normally lacks much soundstage and is apparently a little HF deficient.

That's why some members use a couple in series, despite the noise level already being VERY low.

They are manipulating phase information by doing this .

 

 See also  https://www.qacoustics.co.uk/blog/2016/04/08/how-to-set-up-your-hi-fi-speakers/

 They also show how to position the speakers for more realistic Home Cinema.

 

That's why I put 1000uF 25V ELNA Silmic ii in the input and output, makes a huge difference for me, grounding the sound that otherwise sounds to be too HF focused.

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For most recordings all the beast systems I have heard the sound stage is at or behind the plane of the speakers, last night when I grabbed recordings that has played with phasing the whole room can fill with sound, I couldn't find the oliva Newton John song on Tidal but I played Deep Forest Track 6 Savana Dance and the sound filled the entire room, behind, in front and to the sides of the speaker, But that recording manipulates the phase to do so. 

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2 hours ago, Cornan said:

I finally got around to do one of my experimental DC cables. The Supra DAC. I used two cables and connected the drain wires of the two cables together in a loop. Red wires to +Ve and blue wires to -Ve. I kept the Kemet A750 caps that I used with Supra Cat 8.

 

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Instant improvement over Supra Cat 8! More presence, more music glow, deeper bass, more ambience and clearer details listening to Halehan - Temple of Maia. Goosebumps present! 

For sure Supra Cat 8 will not go back! 

Remaining cables will have to wait until next week. Supra BiLine MKII will be next! ?

 

Technical Info

For further technical information, refer to separate sections of included components: Supra DAC cable and Supra Swift XLR

Mechanical Specifications

Cross section area 0.54 / 20 mm/ AWG
Number of strands per lead 19 pieces
Strand diameter 0.19 mm
Conductor material Oxygen free 5N copper  
Insulation PE Foam (air filled)  
Screen Coverage 100% semi-conductive nylon  
Jacket Heat & age resistant PVC  
External diameter 6.1 mm
Weight Not applicable g/m

 

Electrical performance

Resistance 8.1 Ohm/km
Inductance 0.28 uH/m
Capacitance 45 pF/m
Characteristic impedance 110 Ohm
Velocity factor 0.78 x C (speed of light)

 

If this stuff really works, why can't a manufacturer incorporate this in the design of the dac and their ps?

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9 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

 

If this stuff really works, why can't a manufacturer incorporate this in the design of the dac and their ps?

 

Good question that I do not have a good answer to! ?

 

 

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10 hours ago, Quadman said:

For most recordings all the best systems I have heard the sound stage is at or behind the plane of the speakers

 But not starting at 3 feet behind the speakers , and going further back.

In many rooms the speakers will not even be 3 feet from the rear walls and such a system will compress the soundstage.

In fact, my old DCM QED 1A speaker's manufacturer recommends that they be positioned 3 feet in front of the rear walls for the best and smoothest low end response.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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13 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

 The OP is using LT3045 low noise voltage regulators in series . Unless they are preceded by typical larger value filter capacitors they will increase the apparent HF detail due to the low value and type of capacitors used at their input and output. ( Tantalum and ceramic usually), causing much larger soundstages and added HF detail ,which users of Spotify etc. seem to like because it normally lacks much soundstage and is apparently a little HF deficient.

That's why some members use a couple in series, despite the noise level already being VERY low.

They are manipulating phase information by doing this .

 

When a system is working well, the amount of HF is irrelevant - one can put on an old swing orchestra where the treble is amost completely absent; versus a modern pop production where it has been pushed up to to the 9's ( or is it 11's, ^_^) - and the soundstage just, is. If one starts talking about the treble being "too much" that is an instant giveaway that the setup is not working right - one should not notice what any part of the spectrum is doing; you're should only be aware of music happening.

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10 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 But not starting at 3 feet behind the speakers , and going further back.

In many rooms the speakers will not even be 3 feet from the rear walls and such a system will compress the soundstage.

 

 

Exactly.

I suppose there may be recordings engineered that way the same as there are recordings that have sounds circling the room. However if many/most recordings start 3' behind the plane of the drivers I would describe it as "recessed".

Sound Minds Mind Sound

 

 

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